Daft Pondering over Local Trivia

[mercuryg]

Now then peoples, let's take a breather from our rantings about the state of our pretty and historic town, and consider an important point of trivia that has sprung to my fertile mind. I spent part of yesterday writing about UK speed limits (I lead an invariably interesting life) and then the latter part pondering a related point. It seems that a 'dual carriageway' is defined as a 'road with two or more lanes for each direction, separated by a physical barrier in the middle'. Well, I was enjoying a pint in the Red Lion (I wish more people would use the name rather than the increasingly popular 'Spoons') looking out onto the roundabout, and for some reason, decided to posit the following question: is the stretch of highway from the Red Lion roundabout to the roundabout next to Morrissons possibly the shortest dual carriageway in the UK? I challenge those of you with no lives and more than enough time on your hands (which you clearly have if you have read this) to find me a shorter one!!

 

A brief addendum: I will have a look later but cannot remember - are there actually any speed limit signs on that stretch? If not, I believe it my legal right to boot my car up to 70mph between points!

 

I now realise that last sentence should also refer to street lights - is the road lit? I can't remember! I am now officially fixated on this subject. It will rule my life until I find all the answers.

Edited February 7, 2015 by mercuryg

[John Fox (foxy)]

is the stretch of highway from the Red Lion roundabout to the roundabout next to Morrissons possibly the shortest dual carriageway in the UK?

When I came out of the Red Lion on Tuesday night at  23.50 freezing the b******s  off and walking towards the Foxes Den, that stretch of Dual Carriageway appeared to have four lanes and was possibly the Longest in the UK !!

[mercuryg]

Aaah, that's a common symptom of over-indulgence in Old Speckled Hen, Foxy; the walk home is always twice as long as the walk there.

[Christopher Doyle]

A brief addendum: I will have a look later but cannot remember - are there actually any speed limit signs on that stretch? If not, I believe it my legal right to boot my car up to 70mph between points!

 

I now realise that last sentence should also refer to street lights - is the road lit? I can't remember! I am now officially fixated on this subject. It will rule my life until I find all the answers.

 

I think i know why you would think so, but the thing you are referencing is more of a "rule of thumb" than a law.

 

That is, if you are thinking about the "oh, whats the speed limit here? lets look for clues. Street lights? assume 30 unless otherwise stated (at regular intervals). Dual carriageway? 60 if lit? 70 if not?"

 

I asked this question of a traffic cop who kindly stopped me to remind me to put on my seat belt, and no. Since we are in a 30 zone, its 30 limit.

There would be no excuse for doing more by stating the dual rule, since that's an "advanced" tactic, and a rough guideline at best.

Doing so would get your arm bent for "driving without due care or attention" for not noticing there was no national speed limit or "no stopping" rules in force on entry.

 

you "may" have a case to insist a "30" sign is displayed at a certain point to remind you, but it wouldn't get you out of the ticket.

[mercuryg]

"...more of a "rule of thumb" than a law...'

 

curious comment, Chris! Speed limits are definitely law, hence the frequency of persons being prosecuted for exceeding them.If they were a rule of thumb every case would be thrown out of court.

 

As far as I know, the speed limits in the UK are as follows: 30 in built up areas, 'built up' being signified by street lamps on the road. 60 on those roads identified with the National Speed Limit sign (black diagonal on white background) and 70 on motorways and dual carriageways, unless otherwise indicated by speed limit signs. Hence, if the stretch I'm on about is lit, which I suspect it is, the speed limit would be 30mph; If it isn't, I can legally do 70 (assuming I have a car capable of getting there) unless there are signs saying otherwise. Simple!

 

** all figures refer to cars, not lorries etc

Edited February 7, 2015 by mercuryg

[mercuryg]

"...more of a "rule of thumb" than a law...'

 

curious comment, Chris! Speed limits are definitely law, hence the frequency of persons being prosecuted for exceeding them.If they were a rule of thumb every case would be thrown out of court.

 

As far as I know, the speed limits in the UK are as follows: 30 in built up areas, 'built up' being signified by street lamps on the road. 60 on those roads identified with the National Speed Limit sign (black diagonal on white background) and 70 on motorways and dual carriageways, unless otherwise indicated by speed limit signs. Hence, if the stretch I'm on about is lit, which I suspect it is, the speed limit would be 30mph; If it isn't, I can legally do 70 (assuming I have a car capable of getting there) unless there are signs saying otherwise. Simple!

[mercuryg]

Not sure how that happened!

[Christopher Doyle]

Pretty much yes.

 

I took the liberty of looking up the relevant section of the road traffic act and promptly stopped reading. (you need to learn the language to understand that crap!)

 

On another site i found this, which pretty much says what you are saying, and confirs no 30 sign would be needed if lit.

 

 If you are unsure of the speed limit on a particular road where it is built up and there are streetlights, assume that the speed limit is 30mph. If the speed limit is above 30mph there will be repeater speed limit signs placed in regular intervals. The law does not allow Highways Authorities to place repeater speed limit signs in a 30mph area where there is a system of street lighting, lit or unlit.

http://www.bedfordshire.police.uk/advice_centre/casualty_reduction_partnership/speed/know_your_speed_limits.aspx

 

so, depending on the section being lit, you "may" have a loophole?

[mercuryg]

"depending on the section being lit, you "may" have a loophole?"

 

I'm pretty certain it's lit, will check later. My mum's Ford ka wouldn't reach 70 in that distance.

 

I'm more interested in the original point, which was could it be the shortest stretch of dual carriageway? I mean, it's what, a couple of hundred yards at best?

[Christopher Doyle]

It is. No need for a check later, google makes sure you can see all you need to from your armchair xD

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.131883,-1.599652,3a,75y,21.71h,83.77t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1smtm4fhMNRpD5k3GDqP9vbg!2e0

[Christopher Doyle]

On the other point, after a VERY quick google search, the nearest competitors for shortest seem quite long!

[mercuryg]

On the other point, after a VERY quick google search, the nearest competitors for shortest seem quite long!

 

Yeah, I've googled it and so  far not one comes close. Now, who do we ask who would know these things?

[Maggie/915]

Great pondering and not so trivial outcome.

Informative and interesting comments.

I wonder how much money was spent doing that stretch of dual carriageway with underpass..

Ah! A time when money was available for Bedlington.

I realise I can get any subject around to lack of investment in the here and now.

Sorry.

[Symptoms]

I always though that the DISTANCE between street lamps determined the speed limit.

[pilgrim]

seem to think it was less than 100 yards

[Malcolm Robinson]

Claim it Merc and see what happens!!!!!!!!!!!

[mercuryg]

"

I always though that the DISTANCE between street lamps determined the speed limit."

 

I believe it once was, and can only assume that someone realised that forcing drivers to stop, get out and measure the distance between lights before adjusting speed was impractical.

 

On another note, the more I ponder this fact, the more I see that Bedlington is a town with more than its fair share of 'claims to fame', yet they are so little publicised beyond its realms it's almost as if we want to keep them secret. I mean, think of it: not only do we have our own dog, we have the link to St Cuthbert, the industrial importance of Birkinshaws work and the connection to George Stephenson, Gooch, the First Penny Black, and I'm sure that's just a few. And now, it seems, we have a stretch of dual carriageway that may or may not be the shortest in existence, depending upon how many pints Foxy has on a Thursday night. Remarkable.

 

Another aside - I have become acquainted with a very nice couple, George and Dorothy, who frequent the Red Lion. In his 60's and once retired, George has come out of retirement to help work on a very hush-hush project for a client he cannot name that involves his area of expertise, steam engineering, very advanced steam engineering. His surname? Stephenson. And sadly, no relation.

[John Fox (foxy)]

 

 And now, it seems, we have a stretch of dual carriageway that may or may not be the shortest in existence, depending upon how many pints Foxy has on a Thursday night. Remarkable.

 

 

This was my other "achilies heel" merc I used this one twice a day,  funny how its length varied depending on if I was starting or finishing work