The Bleeding Heart Left

[threegee]

Maybe the time has come for the bleeding-heart left to face some of the cost their religion of "multiculturalism" is imposing on the rest of society.  That probably goes for politicos (of all persuasions) who insist on interfering in regions of the world they don't properly understand.  They're very quick to point out the supposed economic benefits of mass immigration, but simply don't want to discuss the enormous cost of all this added "security", or the impact on innocent victims.

Asylum-seeker who avoided deportation after public campaign faces JAIL for sex assault

And - wonder of wonders - an overpaid HoC committee has only just discovered that 36% of all asylum applications are from pure economic migrants (mostly illegal) who are quite obviously playing the system.  Keith Vaz finds this "deeply concerning" - well, welcome to the world of ordinary British folk who have been concerned about this since Blair quietly opened all the doors to satisfy his international elitist agenda Mr Vaz!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/14/third-of-asylum-claims-come-from-illegal-migrants-and-visa-overs/

Quote

“The very principle of seeking asylum is that you feel persecuted at the time you arrive, not saying you feel persecuted after arriving illegally or for different reasons and then remaining in the country until you are apprehended.”

May might now be urging a rethink, but, as our former Home Secretary, she's not at all blameless.  If her excuse is that she was constrained by EU law then the wise British public have now removed the impediment.  We need much more clarity from her government than we've seen so far.

[mercuryg]

He's back! Yeah! hey, the pounds crumbled in the past few days, in advance of economic reports om the effects of Brexit! i take it that means it's all going tp be tales of fabulous futures and so on? I won't bother quoting the exchange rate, as I know it really annoys you for me to remind me how wrong you were (and are) about the pound's recovery. just keep posting your selective stories about how great this (so far non-existent) withdrawal from Europe will be. that should keep you happy.

I do agree with you, it must be said, that we need more clarity from the government. I'm not sure we'll get more from Santa's elves before the year's out, however. Also, the 'wise British public' haven't removed any impediment; you know as well as the rest of us the referendum was not binding, and that such a slim majority is not convincing. Good  to see you back, I've been bored. 

 

[threegee]

You still haven't answered the so simple simple question about what value the pound should have?  Far from being annoyed I'm very happy to see it where it is today.

The only person I've encountered who is annoyed about Sterling is a retired HMRC Tax Inspector, who - of course - is one of your fellow Remonians.  Though, quite unlike yourself, he does have a genuine reason to be annoyed - his pension doesn't buy anything like as much as it did when he relocated.  I assured him that relief was in sight from the overvalued (by 35%) Euro he has to pay his bills in.  He still wasn't happy though - Remonians will never be happy living in the real world!  I didn't try to explain to him that his house is now (notionally) worth more, as (being in the bombed-out EZ) in reality he'd have to sell it for less than he paid.

Ah, that "non-binding" result of the referendum.  Dream on!

Oh, another question: as we've been in the EEC/EU for 41 years now, what exactly has it done for the ordinary working person in all this time?  Supplementary: If we were to remain what exactly would change from now on to make our stay worthwhile?

Some plain answers please, and not bald statements about how you suppose I feel.

[Malcolm Robinson]

Unheard of before but 5 passenger ships into the Tyne today...........all disgorging tourists with foreign exchange to spend!  

 

They are calling it "Super Tuesday"!  

[Malcolm Robinson]

http://www.portoftyne.co.uk/news/port-of-tyne/record-five-passenger-ships-in-one-day-at-port-of-tyne/

 

Now then we just need Bedlington on their itineraries........  

[mercuryg]

"You still haven't answered the so simple simple question about what value the pound should have? "

Yes I have; I told you quite clearly I'm happy with it, and like to point out you were wrong about it recovering! It couldn't be simpler.

"Ah, that "non-binding" result of the referendum."

But it is non binding; it was a referendum, not a legal vote. You're well aware of this.

"Though, quite unlike yourself, he does have a genuine reason to be annoyed"

I'm not annoyed.

"Oh, another question: as we've been in the EEC/EU for 41 years now, what exactly has it done for the ordinary working person in all this time?  Supplementary: If we were to remain what exactly would change from now on to make our stay worthwhile?"

Great questions; I worked for many years for a company that benefited greatly from EU trade arrangements. That affected me as we did more business, grew as a result, and I got to earn more money, buy a house, a car and so on. I don't see how a North-East based print and packaging company would have been able to sustain such business (and it still does) without the input of the EU in terms of financial grants and benefits, which were forthcoming at the time. Now, of course, those deals are not going to go away - they are solid - but will more be forthcoming? I can't say for sure yes or know as I am no longer employed by them, but I can say that there is considerable uncertainty at present as to how their business is to go forward until the buttons are pressed. You know as ell as I do the influence the EU has had on working conditions and so on, although if you want to try and make me believe there has been absolutely no benefit across 41 years than that's fine, but that doesn't really wash, does it? What would change from now on to make our stay worthwhile? What has changed to make us leave? I just don't get it. Back to what I've said many times: why did people vote to leave? Was it for the major economic benefits you tell me of? You know also that the majority of people who voted - and this is for both sides - did so in a state of confusion, of not actually understanding what the EU is, or what it does or doesn't do. How can anyone consider a decision made in such circumstances to be a sensible one? I maintain this is not a decision to be taken by 'the people' as we - by and large - are not suitably qualified.

One thing does bother me, though: if, as some tell me - yourself included - leaving the EU is such an obvious benefit to the country, it's economy, it's people, why hasn't Article 50 been invoked? I mean, I don't buy that May needs to get her teams in place before such a decision can be made - if that is so, then her predecessors really weren't prepared - and as she is an un-elected Prime Minister who will at some point come up against an election, surely getting things underway right now - of before now - would have been a sensible and clever political move, that would stand her in good stead for when she faces the music? Why the delays? You - and others - reckon before Christmas; I read something the other day saying next spring; I read another piece citing further delays. Why any delay? If it's the future, and so good for us, get it done! Until we do, one way or the other, these amazing trade deals that are being touted remain on the back-burner, as nobody is going to commit until the government do. So, 'we' voted; leave; let's leave, and stop fannying around.

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2016 by mercuryg

[mercuryg]

11 hours ago, Malcolm Robinson said:

Unheard of before but 5 passenger ships into the Tyne today...........all disgorging tourists with foreign exchange to spend!  

 

They are calling it "Super Tuesday"!  

Excellent, and should have happened years ago, I noticed ships off the mouth of the Tyne when I was on the beach yesterday. 

[threegee]

Yes I have; I told you quite clearly I'm happy with it, and like to point out you were wrong about it recovering! It couldn't be simpler.

 

So that's a value is it?  It will be an unfortunate consequence of our business turn-around that the pound will recover the value it had against the Euro in a few short years of having left.  Meanwhile, it's more than likely that there will be at least one (and likely several) Eurozone crises which will weaken the Euro against other currencies.  October could turn out a very bad month for the EZ (and Italian banks).

But it is non binding; it was a referendum, not a legal vote. You're well aware of this.

I'm aware that the will of the people is sovereign in this country (it's not continental Europe), and that any government that flouts it will be consigned to history.  Fortunately, so is Mrs May, but a few parties like the Liberal non-Democrats (still) believe the people can be conned.

I'm not annoyed.

You sound very annoyed at the result of democratic process, else why are you urging a democratic decision should be ignored?

Great questions; I worked for many years for a company that benefited greatly from EU trade arrangements. That affected me as we did more business, grew as a result, and I got to earn more money, buy a house, a car and so on. I don't see how a North-East based print and packaging company would have been able to sustain such business (and it still does) without the input of the EU in terms of financial grants and benefits, which were forthcoming at the time. Now, of course, those deals are not going to go away - they are solid - but will more be forthcoming? I can't say for sure yes or know as I am no longer employed by them, but I can say that there is considerable uncertainty at present as to how their business is to go forward until the buttons are pressed. You know as ell as I do the influence the EU has had on working conditions and so on, although if you want to try and make me believe there has been absolutely no benefit across 41 years than that's fine, but that doesn't really wash, does it? What would change from now on to make our stay worthwhile? What has changed to make us leave? I just don't get it. Back to what I've said many times: why did people vote to leave? Was it for the major economic benefits you tell me of? You know also that the majority of people who voted - and this is for both sides - did so in a state of confusion, of not actually understanding what the EU is, or what it does or doesn't do. How can anyone consider a decision made in such circumstances to be a sensible one? I maintain this is not a decision to be taken by 'the people' as we - by and large - are not suitably qualified.

You are heavily conflating the Common Market with the EU here. We all agreed to the Common Market (including a naive me).  What has change is that the lies of Heath have been exposed, and the salami slicing euro politicians are now driving their own agenda with vigour toward a European superstate. You've actually unwitting hit the nail on the head here when you say "did so in a state of confusion, of not actually understanding what the EU is"  It's actually a prime requirement of the elites that ordinary people don't understand how the EU works.  If they did they'd be even less likely to support it.  What ordinary people have come to understand is that the loss of sovereignty means that our politicos have a ready excuse not to act on just about every significant problem

You are actually a Mandleson type post-democrat.  He'd have done well as a Soviet apparatchik.  You fail to understand that the elites have no monopoly on wisdom, and the fact their mistakes are often bigger and deeper than those of the so-called uneducated  That's partly because they are often compounded by group-think confirmation.  Business proves that common sense and life-experience is the prime indicator of success; most trained accountants make an utter mess of running enterprises, though they can always tell you why they failed!

One thing does bother me, though: if, as some tell me - yourself included - leaving the EU is such an obvious benefit to the country, it's economy, it's people, why hasn't Article 50 been invoked? I mean, I don't buy that May needs to get her teams in place before such a decision can be made - if that is so, then her predecessors really weren't prepared - and as she is an un-elected Prime Minister who will at some point come up against an election, surely getting things underway right now - of before now - would have been a sensible and clever political move, that would stand her in good stead for when she faces the music? Why the delays? You - and others - reckon before Christmas; I read something the other day saying next spring; I read another piece citing further delays. Why any delay? If it's the future, and so good for us, get it done! Until we do, one way or the other, these amazing trade deals that are being touted remain on the back-burner, as nobody is going to commit until the government do. So, 'we' voted; leave; let's leave, and stop fannying around.

There are many parties praying that May does not call an election right now because she'd undoubtedly increase her majority.  The delays are because dodgy Dave made no provision for the eventuality, in fact he positively ordered that there must be no work at all on Brexit preparations.  The result is that no one in government has a clue as to how to approach matters, and they are having to recruit from wherever they can.

Trade goes on regardless, because trade doesn't depend on deals by politicos in the apocryphal smoke-filled-rooms; it depends on people with enterprise - willing buyers and willing sellers.  Mostly, politicos get in the way of this, and the EU has getting in the way in spades.  Sooner or later even the people who think that getting part of our own money back, with strings attached, is a great deal will come around to seeing that being part of a rapidly fading trade cartel wasn't a "progressive" move, and that trade should be distanced from politicos as far as is possible.  It's now looking like February, but it could be a month or two either way, depending on political pressure etc.

[mercuryg]

You expect me, and others, to believe the then Prime Minister made no provisions for a leave vote? Seriously? You actually believe that? Give me a break! He would have had people working around the clock to deal with both eventualities; this was about the country, not his breakfast! May doesn't want to leave, does she? What have I read just today; let's see, next year (no mention of before Christmas); delays until late next year; might not happen at all; Arse doesn't know what elbow is doing; etc. all good fun.

[mercuryg]

Btw, i have no desire to see the referendum ignored; nor was it democratic. Democracy, in its true form, is not about giving a vote to the general populous, but about giving it to chosen people who have knowledge of the points to be considered. Of course, you know that.

[Malcolm Robinson]

12 hours ago, mercuryg said:

Excellent, and should have happened years ago, I noticed ships off the mouth of the Tyne when I was on the beach yesterday. 

I believe they are deserted ones merc with just skeleton crews left on!!!!!!!!

[Malcolm Robinson]

Just one question merc and I don't want to enter the lovefest you have going with GGG, but when did we ever have an elected Prime Minister?  

 

If we elected our head of government..... as such......... it would be a republic as far as I can see?  

 

We mere mortals only get to elect Mp's.  

[webtrekker]

Democracy is an Illusion. From the cradle to the grave we serve our elitist masters, and [Deity] help us if we step out of line. 

[mercuryg]

11 hours ago, Malcolm Robinson said:

I believe they are deserted ones merc with just skeleton crews left on!!!!!!!!

Really? Or are you pulling my leg here!

[mercuryg]

11 hours ago, Malcolm Robinson said:

Just one question merc and I don't want to enter the lovefest you have going with GGG, but when did we ever have an elected Prime Minister?  

 

If we elected our head of government..... as such......... it would be a republic as far as I can see?  

 

We mere mortals only get to elect Mp's.  

Good point, and absolutely correct of course. 

[Malcolm Robinson]

1 hour ago, mercuryg said:

Really? Or are you pulling my leg here!

No I was looking at them from Parker's Bar at Tynemouth just a week ago and asked about them.  Been there for some time seemingly.