Arron Banks - what really happened!

[threegee]

A little perplexed by the BBC's "balanced reporting"?  The Telegraph reports what actually happened when the guardians of our democracy had yet another go at someone who certainly isn't playing their establishment game.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/12/brexit-bulletin-bad-boy-arron-banks-lashes-remainer-mps

[mercuryg]

Interesting lack of response to this. From the level of general talk at the moment - that is away from the press and in the real world - it would seem that people (around here at least) have lost interest in Brexit. I guess that's what happens when you drag your heels. Even the local Eastern European contingent are no longer concerned in the least. I wonder is this a deliberate dragging of heels by those in charge, or are they simply stuck? Meanwhile, somebody's filled in some potholes!

[webtrekker]

59 minutes ago, mercuryg said:

Meanwhile, somebody's filled in some potholes!

Now there's a subject for debate! Forget bloody Brexshit! 

They've sprayed around that many potholes it's going to be a case of Follow The Yellow Brick Road around Northumberland! They need to get the Munchkins to actually FILL them, not PAINT them. 

[threegee]

2 hours ago, mercuryg said:

...Even the local Eastern European contingent are no longer concerned in the least...

That's because the lies of Project Fear have been made thoroughly obvious to all.  The latest one to go down in flames was the supposed broken undertaking (from people who everyone was aware weren't in a position to do this) to fund the NHS with the Brexit dividend.  Can you remember mad Vince Cable's sneers about this when he knew full well that it would be a good while before there was any dividend?

NHS to get £384m extra a week, as Theresa May locks Britain into leaving EU

Oh, and all those European health workers that were going to go home and so cripple the NHS? ...well the most up to date figures show that there's now a record number of them!  But hey, we are heading for three million unemployed because of all Clegg's jobs that depended on our EU membership (you do remember Nick, don't you?), so we shouldn't be so complacent!  

The Second Peasants Revolt rolls on regardless, and it's spilling over into Germany right now.  That's because there are a reported 80,000 so called "refugees" currently gathered near the Austrian border that the BBC guardianistas don't think anyone needs to know about!  Merkel's head next!

[Steve Turnbull]

Project Fear! Love it. Was that the drive to get people to vote for what was never going to happen? I mean, as we’ve said before, a whole wedge of voters said leave on the grounds those horrible foreigners would go home? 

[threegee]

2 hours ago, Steve Turnbull said:

Project Fear! Love it. Was that the drive to get people to vote for what was never going to happen? I mean, as we’ve said before, a whole wedge of voters said leave on the grounds those horrible foreigners would go home? 

A "whole wedge" of voters frequently do the right thing for the wrong reason, and a "whole wedge" do the wrong thing for the right reason.  Over time this tends to balance out and we are left with a democracy that everyone respects the result of - or that used to be the case before Tony Blair.

I think you'll be really struggling to find any politician of note on the Leave side who ever claimed anyone was going anywhere.  On the Remain side you'll find lots that perpetrated the lie that Brits living in the EU would be going home en masse.  The Remain side also perpetrated the lies that we'd starve because Poles wouldn't be able to work on low income jobs, and that produce would go bad in the fields, plus of course the NHS would come to a halt because of lack of skilled EU medical staff. The irrefutable logic that once we had recovered sovereignty such a thing could only be self inflicted never deserved mention.  In other words the going home myth suited the Remain campaign admirably, else they'd have pointed out the obvious absurdity.

The Leave side was left deliberately disorganised by our distinctly EUphile Electoral Commission (packed out with Blairites) - which actually picked the campaign they thought they'd do best against.  That that campaign didn't make too many fluffs, and got it mostly right is an indication of the strength of the underlying case, and not any indication of what would have happened if there had been a level playing field.

[mercuryg]

"A "whole wedge" of voters frequently do the right thing for the wrong reason, and a "whole wedge" do the wrong thing for the right reason. " Very true.

"I think you'll be really struggling to find any politician of note on the Leave side who ever claimed anyone was going anywhere. " Also very true, yet it didn't stop a whole wedge of voters shouting leave for that reason, did it? 

"The Remain side also perpetrated the lies that we'd starve because Poles wouldn't be able to work on low income jobs, and that produce would go bad in the fields..."

Now that's an interesting point. Out of interest, and as you and I both know the agricultural workers from Eastern Europe are not going to be 'sent home' (I speak of those who are here legally, working, paying taxes etc) who do you surmise would to the job of picking turnips, cutting leeks, pulling beet - all necessary - if, in fact, those foreign manual workers were not here? This is less of a political question, rather a practical one. What I find odd is that there are x-however-many unemployed in the country, a good proportion of them home-grown (like the turnips) yet they're not the ones in the fields in all weathers, doing jobs that are frankly not very enjoyable. So, unless we are to assume that all of a sudden the UK-born unemployed would flock to the farms, without those European workers, the produce would go bad in the fields (and, for your information, a lot of it does, because the farmers still cannot get enough hands to do the job.) One other by-product of Brexit, and the lies you rightly point out were heavily promoted, has been a great increase in racial abuse towards the Eastern European population around here (I'm surrounded by turnip and leek fields, farms in general, and a few miles from 'Little Poland' otherwise known as Boston, Lincolnshire) from those who now think they should 'go home'. It's not nice to see. Of course, that comes from ignorant knuckleheads, but then they make up a good proportion of the voting population. So, while I agree with you that there are political benefits from Brexit, and while the foreign contingent around here are no longer worried about it, the farmers are, and have cause to be. They want more overseas hands, because they are willing to do the work. For the record, a friend spent the spring working in a orchard, pruning. She was the sole Brit among 18 Romanians. Without them, no apples for you. 

[threegee]

1 hour ago, mercuryg said:

"...Now that's an interesting point. Out of interest, and as you and I both know the agricultural workers from Eastern Europe are not going to be 'sent home' (I speak of those who are here legally, working, paying taxes etc) who do you surmise would to the job of picking turnips, cutting leeks, pulling beet - all necessary - if, in fact, those foreign manual workers were not here?..

Well, I think you've answered your own question - it's not going to happen, mostly!  The problems farmers have were there well before Brexit, and we need a government that will encourage robotics and innovation, as well as operating a fair work visa system that's not politicised.  Government no longer has any excuses that they can't do this or that because of Brussels, so we are entering an interesting political era - one that establishment politicos don't seem to like.

Anyone who lived through the immediate post war era, and met Poles who came to the UK during wartime has the greatest respect for their work ethic, and indeed loyalty to our country through the war and beyond. On the other side of the coin, it's always very easy to attack others for being lazy, and that's exactly what the EUphiles in Germany are saying about ALL Italians, and their refusal to become good little Germans.  In order to preserve their crumbing political project they're sowing the very division they claim it's working to eliminate.  "Knuckleheads" are everywhere, particularly in the universities; so don't be too hard on the poorer less educated ones locally!

[mercuryg]

"The problems farmers have were there well before Brexit..." Indeed they were.

"we need a government that will encourage robotics and innovation, as well as operating a fair work visa system that's not politicised" On the former, there's only so much that can be done on the land by machine. Some of the equipment used around here is pretty impressive, yet a machine to out-pace a couple of dozen cutting leaks without excessive waste is the stuff of dreams. As for the work visa situation, agreed.

"it's always very easy to attack others for being lazy" Even easier when they are. I still question why the hoards of unemployed in the region are not flocking to fill our neighbouring farmers dozen part time vacancies.

 

 

[Symptoms]

And ... what about Nigel Farage alleged 'get rich quick scheme'  - hedge fund betting against the pound on the night of the referendum?  Shysters, the lot of them!