Lockerbie Bomber

[Monsta®]

Exactly that - Vic mentioned that being guilty or innocent is fact; I disagree - its not fact until its proven.

Getting back to the Lockerbie bomber and while you're right to hail Brian's well put remarks about the situations as 'well said' - indeed it was - the same could be said of Barry George, james Hanratty, and a whole load of other less high profile cases where people have been wrongly imprisoned. I'm not saying that I know the Lockerbie accused did no do it, but pointing out - as is another on here, I believe - that the evidence upon which he was convicted was flimsy at best, and that there are very solid claims that it may not even have been Libya that committed the atrocity.

To decry someone the right to protest innocence as they have been convicted in a court of law is to deny them there right; sadly for James Hanratty he didn't get a chance.

What will be your response, I wonder, should Iran - who many suspect to be the real perpetrators of this terrible crime - admit to it at some point in he future?

he done it, he was convicted and the soft scots let him go! stop going on about conspiracies iran! what utter nonsense! next you'll be blaming the IRA, the BNP, the peoples front of judea or guy fawkes.

and another thing they should fetch back capital punishment save all the arguments.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Monsta®

[mercuryg]

he done it, he was convicted and the soft scots let him go! stop going on about conspiracies iran! what utter nonsense! next you'll be blaming the IRA, the BNP, the peoples front of judea or guy fawkes.

This is the problem, Monsta, for i'm not 'going on about conspiracies' at all. If you care to read much of the detail that has been written about the case - both now and ever since it occurred - it's quite clear that there is much more to it than meets the eye.

Have you, for instance, read the judgement as to why he was found guilty, and used your own intelliegence to draw a conclusion? It's easy to say 'he done it, he was convicted' but tell me, who was he convicted by? I don't think you know, so i'll furnish you: he was convicted by a Scottish court sitting without a jury in Holland, behind closed doors, and he was implicated on the say so of one witness- who was later found to have been in the pay of the CIA - who stated that he bought the clothes that were found in his luggage on a certain date, in Malta. He was tried with a co conspirator who was acquitted (how so?) He is said to have put the bomb on a plane in Malta, for it then to be transferred to another flight in Frankfurt, and then to the fateful Heathrow flight. Even those in the courtroom thought this tenuous, at the very best.

This is not conspiracy, monsta, this is what was said to have happened, and people closely associated with the case have admitted on several occasions that they foudn the conviction shaky to say the least.

You would think, also, that a terrorist atrocity as terrible as this one, on british soil, would merit a full and in depth enquiry: there never has been one, and there never will be, because something is not right.

and another thing they should fetch back capital punishment save all the arguments.

And how would that save any arguments? I asked you before - what, I wonder, would your response be if someone else confesses to the crime at a later date? 'Oh well, he was an arab, he deserved it!'?

this is a case where the evidence - just like in teh Barry George case, and james Hanratty, and many others - was simply far too flimsy to secure a conviction, yet one was needed so it was given. That is not what the law is all about.

[Vic Patterson]

Exactly that - Vic mentioned that being guilty or innocent is fact; I disagree - its not fact until its proven.

Guilty or innocent is a fact! you actually did it or didn't do it, that is a fact! whether it is found out or proven is another matter completely. If you don't get caught doesn't make you innocent, just lucky!

[Brian Cross]

Is he dead yet

Edited October 16, 2009 by Brian Cross

[Malcolm Robinson]

Not quite so, being guilty or innocent is a fact but normally people are presumed not guilty until it is proven.

Only by the judge in English courts, to give fairness to a trial, don't know how the Scottish system works.

Interesting debate......

[Monsta®]

Is he dead yet

hopefully not and i hope he's in agonising pain! the stinking murderer!

[Brian Cross]

hopefully not and i hope he's in agonising pain! the stinking murderer!

My sentiments as well

[threegee]

For a guilty man who is now "free and clear" he's going to an awful lot of trouble to assert his innocence! In fact just as he said he would.

http://www.megrahimystory.net/

Meanwhile his accusers and convicters are doing a very good job of keeping their heads down in case they are called to account. It's highly likely that his appeal would have succeed, and so he's been robbed of the chance to clear his name by possibly criminal, and certainly morally corrupt, collusion in the UK establishment.

In his situation could anyone have done more? More victims than there need have been here!

[Monsta®]

For a guilty man who is now "free and clear" he's going to an awful lot of trouble to assert his innocence! In fact just as he said he would.

http://www.megrahimystory.net/

Meanwhile his accusers and convicters are doing a very good job of keeping their heads down in case they are called to account. It's highly likely that his appeal would have succeed, and so he's been robbed of the chance to clear his name by possibly criminal, and certainly morally corrupt, collusion in the UK establishment.

In his situation could anyone have done more? More victims than there need have been here!

what he's got a web site! thats just low suppose he'll be uploading his holiday photo's for the victims family to see!

look just recapture the dorty terrorist and electrofy the fecker make every one happy!

[Brian Cross]

what he's got a web site! thats just low suppose he'll be uploading his holiday photo's for the victims family to see!

look just recapture the dorty terrorist and electrofy the fecker make every one happy!

i am with you on this one Monsta, we are too soft and they know it, have you ever wondered why there isn't any boat people or political refugee's trying to get into Muslim countries

[Guest mrsvic]

i am with you on this one Monsta, we are too soft and they know it, have you ever wondered why there isn't any boat people or political refugee's trying to get into Muslim countries

There are millions trying to get into the UAE every year, all prepared to pay for work permits (at the cost of approx 6-12 months wages), to take jobs paying a few £s a month labouring in the blazing heat.

Similarly we heard in Muslim Malaysia that are 100s of 'boat people' entering the country every day, all looking for opportunity, with most heading over from the 92% Christian Phillipines, the same problem affects Brunei and Indonesia, so they say.

I don't have first-hand experience of many other Muslim countries of which I can comment, and not they are refugees, however I do know a few folk who have made their fortune in Saudi, Kuwait or some of the other Middle East states... weird that they go over, flaunt the customs of the country by making home-brew, showing as much flesh as possible without prosecution and the like, try to implement their Western ways wherever possible, then retire back to the UK and count their profits.

[Monsta®]

There are millions trying to get into the UAE every year, all prepared to pay for work permits (at the cost of approx 6-12 months wages), to take jobs paying a few £s a month labouring in the blazing heat.

Similarly we heard in Muslim Malaysia that are 100s of 'boat people' entering the country every day, all looking for opportunity, with most heading over from the 92% Christian Phillipines, the same problem affects Brunei and Indonesia, so they say.

I don't have first-hand experience of many other Muslim countries of which I can comment, and not they are refugees, however I do know a few folk who have made their fortune in Saudi, Kuwait or some of the other Middle East states... weird that they go over, flaunt the customs of the country by making home-brew, showing as much flesh as possible without prosecution and the like, try to implement their Western ways wherever possible, then retire back to the UK and count their profits.

where on earth did you get that from? yes there maybe immigrants going to these countries but there only passing through on route to benefit island. its a bit like the charlie booreman program from muslim land to benefit island by any means! including sneeking on to trucks, aeroplanses and boats risking not only there lives but the poor unaware drivers and legit passengers.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Monsta®

[Guest mrsvic]

where on earth did you get that from? yes there maybe immigrants going to these countries but there only passing through on route to benefit island. its a bit like the charlie booreman program from muslim land to benefit island by any means! including sneeking on to trucks, aeroplanses and boats risking not only there lives but the poor unaware drivers and legit passengers.

Demographics of the UAE

Demographics of Malaysia

[Monsta®]

Demographics of the UAE

Demographics of Malaysia

wikipedia and server not found! well thats not something you can say is reliable!

Edited October 25, 2009 by Monsta®

[threegee]

what he's got a web site! thats just low suppose he'll be uploading his holiday photo's for the victims family to see!

look just recapture the dorty terrorist and electrofy the fecker make every one happy!

One of your dumbest ever posts Monsta - you're more intelligent than that! Take the trouble to look at the evidence against this guy.

Anyway, some of the relatives don't believe the official line either, and an a staged climbdown is now in progress. It will take a while - not the least because there's an argument about who is going to handle the hot potato. Distance yourself as much as possible from the consequences seems to be the current strategy. They know what's coming, and it won't look too good for the justice system! Ah, but it was the Scottish justice system that perpetrated this; no, no, this was imposed on us by the English, etc. etc.

http://news.bbc.co.u...and/8324742.stm

There's also the possibility (some think probability) that intelligence knew about this beforehand. And, if that is the case, some of the guilty are hiding in our own ranks!

[Monsta®]

One of your dumbest ever posts Monsta - you're more intelligent than that! Take the trouble to look at the evidence against this guy.

Anyway, some of the relatives don't believe the official line either, and an a staged climbdown is now in progress. It will take a while - not the least because there's an argument about who is going to handle the hot potato. Distance yourself as much as possible from the consequences seems to be the current strategy. They know what's coming, and it won't look too good for the justice system! Ah, but it was the Scottish justice system that perpetrated this; no, no, this was imposed on us by the English, etc. etc.

http://news.bbc.co.u...and/8324742.stm

There's also the possibility (some think probability) that intelligence knew about this beforehand. And, if that is the case, some of the guilty are hiding in our own ranks!

what do you mean dumbest? i did he's a murdering terrorist!

[threegee]

Yet more evidence that the whole thing is a CIA framing exercises. But even they can't pull the wool too much longer.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8441796.stm

This one ain't going to go away until the truth emerges - however long it takes!

The best guess is that the bomb was loaded at Heathrow, and - as most reasonable people now believe - Libya had nothing at all to do with it.

[Monsta®]

Yet more evidence that the whole thing is a CIA framing exercises. But even they can't pull the wool too much longer.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ews/8441796.stm

This one ain't going to go away until the truth emerges - however long it takes!

The best guess is that the bomb was loaded at Heathrow, and - as most reasonable people now believe - Libya had nothing at all to do with it.

ofcourse they didn't just like neil armstrong never landed on the moon and the twin towers were demolished by the U.S government! suppose him from yemen wasn't guilty of trying to set the bomb in his pants off!

he done it! he should have been sent to guantanamo for water boarding! my be then he would of confessed! but ner he's now relaxing in the sun with his family unlike the poor victims!

[threegee]

Did you look at any of that? 'Course you didn't! Just let your Nick Griffin fueled blind prejudice about Arabs have full reign.

This is why the Country needn't worry about the BNP, and we don't need any of your "help" on the matter Mr Straw!

[Monsta®]

Did you look at any of that? 'Course you didn't! Just let your Nick Griffin fueled blind prejudice about Arabs have full reign.

This is why the Country needn't worry about the BNP, and we don't need any of your "help" on the matter Mr Straw!

i did look at it and its nowt new! it was on that horizon program were the bloke was exploding loads of suitcases with radios in them!

plus av got nowt against arabs etc as long as they don't try to take over my country or blow up planes full of innocent people!

muslims its al that rockin when praying sends them mad!

[threegee]

It was Newsnight, and I meant all the evidence which you pretend to have looked at.

You exhibit exactly the same unreasoning intolerance that you so despise in those chanting Muslims. And it's obvious that to you Megrahi is guilty because of who he is rather than what he might have done.

And what a pity your concern for innocent people only extends to WASP people.

Two simple questions:

Do you think it's fair to say to someone: we will release you if you stop protesting your innocence and withdraw your appeal? Isn't this essentially just the same thing as those mock confessions terrorist groups love to show - any intelligent person knows that it's coercion of the worst kind.

Where is the evidence that Megrahi put the bomb on the plane? This was supposed to be a fair and open public trial, so that evidence - however circumstantial - should be in the public domain. Point me to it!

[Merlin]

It's that way -> :lol:

[Mr Darn]

Just to put another twist on it all...

Terrorism.. whats its definition?

in my words, terrorism is designed to cause disruption, cripple public services, Bully higher authorities into changing their minds about something....

..of course theres the needless killing as well, but 3 out of 4 discriptors isnt bad to make a distinction!

Sound familier?

[threegee]

Hang on! Terrorism is whatever our security services say it is, but they don't actually have to give us a what why and where, because that would compromise their "intelligence" gathering.

If it's a militant striker then so be it. They're probably secretly trying to bring down the government, and remove our "democratically elected" Prime Minister. No? Well they have it coming anyway!

This is all in our best interests you know. Just like our MP's they'd never do anything wrong, and need no independent supervision. They never tell fibs to feather their own nests (or duck islands), never break the law, never frame innocent people, and never ever empire build. None of this is ever counterproductive either! That "Iraq Dossier" was all a load of tosh you say? Ah, we've got a million dossiers where that came from; they can't ALL be full of pure garbage, and can be forgiven the odd WMD mistake.

No, those billions are all spent in our best interests. Just keep on signing the cheques and be grateful. It's all done "in the public interest" - you have our word!

[Mr Darn]

Just to put another twist on it all...

Terrorism.. whats its definition?

in my words, terrorism is designed to cause disruption, cripple public services, Bully higher authorities into changing their minds about something....

..of course theres the needless killing as well, but 3 out of 4 discriptors isnt bad to make a distinction!

Sound familier?

Has my above post been moved for some reason?

I was sure i posted it in reply to this post:

I think they should think them selfs lucky they have a job??

This whole BA striks is doin my head in. Unite are goin to ruin that company and send it under. BA Cabin crew and most groung crew are already the highest paid in the industry?? If your contract changes then you should just deal with it or hand your notice in??

I think the government need to step in and put something in place to stop this sort of thing happening?? not sure what tho??

refering to the strike action by BA and the proposed future strikes elswhere.....