Quote.....

[Malcolm Robinson]

Anyone know who wrote this and when?

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent until the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery... And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression"

[Merlin]

Mike Ashley? 2006

Edited October 15, 2010 by Merlin

[Andy Millne]

Somewhere between 1743 and 1826

[Pete]

Anyone know who wrote this and when?

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent until the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery... And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression"

He also said:

"The conclusion then, is, that neither the representatives of a nation, nor the whole nation itself assembled, can validly engage debts beyond what they may pay in their own time."

[Merlin]

On aboot us poor Geordies again :rolleyes:

[Malcolm Robinson]

Well done GGGG and Pete. Thomas Jefferson 1780.

Goes to show there's nowt new in profligate politicians bankrupting their electorates!

Merlin,

Obviously it wasn't a geordie, not once is there a 'Ya Kna' in. Neither was it about us as there is no reference to the 'tickyman'.

[Pete]

Well done GGGG and Pete. Thomas Jefferson 1780.

Goes to show there's nowt new in profligate politicians bankrupting their electorates!

Merlin,

Obviously it wasn't a geordie, not once is there a 'Ya Kna' in. Neither was it about us as there is no reference to the 'tickyman'.

Who said this:

Pointing out that debt was 44% in 1997, "It's because we cut the national debt in previous years [that we are able to borrow more now]. It is the right thing to do to deal with the problem."

[Malcolm Robinson]

Who said this:

Pointing out that debt was 44% in 1997, "It's because we cut the national debt in previous years [that we are able to borrow more now]. It is the right thing to do to deal with the problem."

That has to be someone who should have stayed as a part time history teacher's apprentice and not become Chancellor of the Exchequer!

Either that or its Billy Liar!

[Pete]

That has to be someone who should have stayed as a part time history teacher's apprentice and not become Chancellor of the Exchequer!

Either that or its Billy Liar!

Spot on Malcolm, or a more apt name for him could be Gordon Ivor notgotaclue

Edited October 16, 2010 by Pete

[Brian Cross]

Something i dont understand is apparently all the countries of the world are broke (except China) where is all the money being borrowed from to bolster economies .........

[Vic Patterson]

I think you just said where, China!

[Malcolm Robinson]

Interesting question Brian, takes nowt to set me off!!!!

I think what you are talking about is 'wealth' as defined by FIAT money, that's the cash pound note stuff we spend in the shops. Personally I think a nation's wealth is its peoples and the social cohesion and gregariousness that should signify, but that's another topic!

The value of most given currencies used to be determined by the gold reserves that country held until the get rich quick boys in the 'City' came up with the present day plethora of chaos theory based valuations and ephemeral fiscal economics. These did nothing more than implode a debt mountain onto most people and make a very few very rich. Without the constraints of something of quantifiable value backing a currency other ways had to be found which gave substance to the FIAT money supply. We see that now as overvalued housing and equities and that is why the BoE like most other central banks ran QE programmes which did little more than maintain this illusion of value and put money exactly where it is unsustainable. Interest rates had to be at such levels governments could borrow, and service the debt, to enable this QE process to proceed so we see zero interest rates.

The reason why rates remain at almost zero is as part of the process of transferring bankrupt bank debts off the bank balance sheets and onto the tax payers, that's us the tax payers who are picking up the tab by taking on the liabilities and debts of the bankrupt banking sector, which STILL more or less remains BANKRUPT, that only survives as a consequence of government support by means printing money and keeping interest rates at zero. This means that savers and wage earners are being forced to subsidise the bankrupt banking sector and also finance the government's budget deficit and total growing debt mountain by means of the stealth tax called INFLATION, which seeks to eat away the value of the total debt, as well as any residual value in our pockets.

The present value of today's currencies is in most part determined by the exchange rate it attracts towards other currencies. Now if we think about the recent trends in globalisation, something which our financial masters consistently fail to do, we can see exchange rates are being revalued according to the trade imbalances between the likes of Western Europe/USA and the likes of China and to some extent India as emerging dynamic exporters. The Western response has been to start up the printing presses and print more FIAT money and that path leads to hyperinflation or a 'Weimar Republic' or 'Zimbabwean' economy! Instead of deflating asset bubbles to get back to some fiscal sanity we seem determined to keep them artificially high to maintain a very unsatisfactory and ultimately unsustainable status quo!

China has its own problems and needs to grow its domestic market to balance its own exporting success or it will go the same way as Japan and feel the effects of deflation. What it is doing is buying 'continuation of supply' as it buys more and more of the world's resources notably minerals and oils. If that is allowed to continue unchecked it will mean the West can never again manufacture competitively within an open market!

Effectively I think we have shot ourselves in the foot and are now taking aim at much more sensitive areas!