Dave's Big Speech On Europe

[threegee]

Nige's response to the Dave speech: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/01/29/uk-britain-europe-farage-idUKBRE90S0G420130129

"There is no substantial renegotiation to be had," said Farage. "He'll get nowhere." In any event, the prime minister, who says he wants to stay in a revamped European Union, could not be trusted to keep his referendum promise, he added, noting abandoned talk of a vote on the Lisbon Treaty of 2007.

[Symptoms]

I feel that everybody in England should have the chance to vote on the Jocko question ... I'd wager a majority would vote to chuck 'em out of the Union.

[threegee]

Malc: On another thread you doubted my assertion that UKIP was becoming a serious force in national politics.

Percentages:

I think it more appropriate to post this here than the other thread because it's really a reflection of public opinion regarding "Dave's Big Speech". Like myself, few believe his promises any more.

My easy prediction is that come the Euro elections Rumpy Pumpy is going to be facing a solid block of UKIP MEPS, being the majority UK party, a prospect which he's already very aware of.

[Malcolm Robinson]

Going to a "Question Time" tonight one of the questions is about the EU.

I know sad isn't it, most people go out on the lash on a Friday night!!!!!!

[Malcolm Robinson]

Shocked the Lib Dems held it.

[threegee]

Shocked the Lib Dems held it.

Somewhat more LD voters (even % wise) transferred to UKIP than Tory voters - which is strange considering the LD love affair with Europe and the fact that the majority of Tories are "eurosceptic". This means that a significant proportion of LD supporters don't share the leadership fixation with Europe either, and only support the party for their record on management at a local level. I think they've shot their temporary cred at offering a real alternative at national level, and will revert to doing OK in local elections, but not being a credible force for change.

Nige's "We'd have won if the Conservatives hadn't split our vote!" was the quote of the night. The traditional parties haven't woken up to new and unstoppable forces at work - just like the tired old men of Europe haven't worked out that their gravy train is rapidly heading towards the buffers.

[Malcolm Robinson]

I think UKIP have just 'elected' BoJO as next Tory leader!

[Symptoms]

The rise of UKIP just demonstrates how many vile xenophobes there are lurking under rocks. Whilst Mr Toadface Farage is a brilliant politician and an extraordinary public speaker it's just a shame the message he's pedalling is just wrong.

[threegee]

...it's just a shame the message he's pedalling is just wrong.

Wrong about what? Wrong about letting anyone who wants to live off our state entry into our country (thus packing out the formerly dwindling ranks of something-for-nothing socialism, as per the Blair/Brown/Balls hidden agenda)? Wrong about not funding the tired old men of Europe and their gravy-train politics? Wrong about getting back to trading freely with the rest of the world and not participating in the biggest cartel in history? Wrong about the need for a party that provides a true alternative to the three woolly social democratic parties we now have? Wrong about actually having the long-overdue referendum on the EU (not The Common Market), and not simply "cast iron" promising one, then having total amnesia on the matter the moment they get into power? Wrong about not giving away eight billion pounds a year on an entry ticket to a club that we don't need to be a member of, when that money could be recirculating in our own economy producing jobs and services for British people?

I submit that Nigel Farage is "a brilliant politician and an extraordinary public speaker" because he's only saying what everyone knows to be true, and because he doesn't need to fall back on the usual politico's evasions, subterfuges and diversions. i.e. telling the truth is actually quite easy, because you don't have to guard and pre-filter every word. I think that what upsets you is the irrefutable logic, together with the "class" of people he draws much of his support from.

[threegee]

...and in the news today:

"That's the reason why we want to send people back, and this is what we have to regulate in our European law... There is no problem when people are coming to Germany for work, that's what we want in Europe, but we don't want people coming only to have social security," -- German Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21653092

Xenophobic Germany or just a little common sense dawning on our partners in the cartel? To call UKIP xenophobic is the sort of disapplication of common sense that the PC left take refuge in. The sort of thing that the morons at Rotherham social services go in for - completely lost on them the fact that the children they were trying to separate from their UKIP supporting, loving, foster parents were in fact of Eastern European origin. Look up the meaning of the word xenophobic, because it doesn't mean what the extreme left want it to mean, and has a second meaning too!

[Symptoms]

"Wrong about what? Wrong about letting anyone who wants to live off our state entry into our country (thus packing out the formerly dwindling ranks of something-for-nothing socialism, as per the Blair/Brown/Balls hidden agenda)? Wrong about not funding the tired old men of Europe and their gravy-train politics? Wrong about getting back to trading freely with the rest of the world and not participating in the biggest cartel in history? Wrong about the need for a party that provides a true alternative to the three woolly social democratic parties we now have? Wrong about actually having the long-overdue referendum on the EU (not The Common Market), and not simply "cast iron" promising one, then having total amnesia on the matter the moment they get into power? Wrong about not giving away eight billion pounds a year on an entry ticket to a club that we don't need to be a member of, when that money could be recirculating in our own economy producing jobs and services for British people?"

Like I said ... xenophobia.

"Look up the meaning of the word xenophobic, because it doesn't mean what the extreme left want it to mean, and has a second meaning too!"

Come on GGG, you know that language isn't a static beast, it gets tuned for the moment. Current usage of the word is understood to mean an intense fear or dislike of foreign people, their customs and culture, or foreign things. I could of applied an extended code and used phrases like, intolerant, racist, chauvinistic, fascist, and so on, but chose the least offensive.

Farage is "a brilliant politician and an extraordinary public speaker" - it doesn't matter what the message is, he's just a great 'snake oil' salesman. I agree with you GGG about the awful twisted morality of just about every politico irrespective of where their feet are planted.

I'm not at all upset by the line spouted by the hate-mongers, I defend their right to say what they like but in return expect the right to confront them; surely you're not suggesting/demanding my silence - that really would be repressive (another one from the extended code above).

[threegee]

..that really would be repressive...

You mean like living in socialist Rotherham?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-20535008

[Symptoms]

I think there may have been a bit more than UKIP membership impinging on that couple's suitability to foster - of course, some of that stuff may not have appeared in that hateful rag The Mail. Perhaps that 'bit more' might have ruined the story/agenda.

[threegee]

I think there may have been a bit more than UKIP membership impinging on that couple's suitability to foster - of course, some of that stuff may not have appeared in that hateful rag The Mail. Perhaps that 'bit more' might have ruined the story/agenda.

In good old civil service fashion of course they will dig around for any possible justification they can fabricate after the event. The couple were already fostering the kids, and doing it very well! Fact is it should never have been any sort of factor in any decision and was downright loony left!

A week after UKIP notched up its biggest share of the vote in an election for a parliamentary seat, a YouGov poll found 36 percent of respondents would potentially back them in a national poll. -- Reuters

So only 36% of the electorate now? Just give it a few more months!