Saint Cuthbert And Bedlington Church

[mercuryg]

I believe we should write the Constitution of  Bedlington. I'll start.

 

1: Free beer.

[Tonyp]

Sorry to tell you this but king john came to the throne after Richard must have been watching to many Robin Hood movies

Who portrayed him as a bad man he was far from it in fact it was him who raised the ransom money for his brother who

Was imprisoned where as Richard was hardly in our country during his reign..

[Tonyp]

King john died from dysentery I think I got it wrong with the ransom but when Richard came back he forgave john .in return he did earn

Richards faith in him...

[Malcolm Robinson]

Which history books do you read Tony?  

 

The ones I read say King John was a snivelling little toe rag who tried to put one over on his family and the country?  Most of the barons rebelled because they didn't want this dictatorial piece of 'one T' to have Devine right over them.  

[Malcolm Robinson]

I believe we should write the Constitution of  Bedlington. I'll start.

 

1: Free beer.

 

Seconded!  

 

But 1 should be "we are free 'men' not obligated to pay for facitlites and services in Ashington!"

[Maggie/915]

For any History you have to ask who wrote it and look for any primary sources!

Everyone in this case can be right!

Basically think about a Bedlington Council Meeting and any minutes need to be understood in light of which side your on.

Unless you have a recording that has not been tampered with.

[Tonyp]

Malcolm It was the barons who wanted the power at the time even the pope disowned him & thought they'd get in & take his crown all he tried to do was trying to get money to fight the French you've got to remember Malcolm there was no councils or governments to

Help him he was the divine ruler sometimes over the years history gets distorted when facts become myths.as I said Hollywood has a lot to answer for didn't care much for Kevin Costners Nottingham accent some of that movie was filmed at hadrians wall the yanks thought that was Nottingham ...

[Tonyp]

Maggie agree with you on that one

[Bedlingtonian]

The Reverend Henry Cotes mentioned by Maggie may shed some clues about life in Bedlington in his 1809 book entitled 'Metres, Addressed To The Lovers Of Truth, Nature, And Sentiment'. It does not appear to be the type of book that you would be rushing to take on holiday with you.

 

Cotes has a poem in the book called 'Watson's Wake' that refers to Cuthbert Watson's death at the church in 1669.

 

There may also be a Templar link as his grandson was Digby Henry Cotes of the Inner Temple, London.

 

Cotes died in 1835 ( Hopefully I have attached a copy of his will )

 

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

HPW,

 

Rule of thumb you don't have constitutions in monarchy's, you have them in republics.

 

If there are kings and queens going back 100's of years, and all that divine right rubbish, then any rights the serfs got was either ransomed for or not worth fighting about and so given freely. 

 

In a republic normally, at the start, there is a Constitution written which has some semblance of democracy built into it. (Given the time period!) 

 

As far as I know a monarchy with a constitution is a constitutional monarch and only has powers decreed by something like a parliament.  They are just figureheads and have no bearing on how the country is run.  

So you do agree with me Malcolm!!

Your last line is VERY true indeed!!

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Sorry to tell you this but king john came to the throne after Richard must have been watching to many Robin Hood movies

Who portrayed him as a bad man he was far from it in fact it was him who raised the ransom money for his brother who

Was imprisoned where as Richard was hardly in our country during his reign..

Never watched the movies or telly for the last 30-odd years...would rather spend that sort of time playing guitar or biking or out walking!!

Last Robin Hood I watched was the series when it first started in around 1958-ish......or whenever Tyne Tees TV was inaugerated,and we were inundated with American and British productions of all sorts of things....westerns,drama's..cartoons etc![and I was a very young laddie!!]

I tell a lie!!...it just came to me!!....the last Robin Hood I watched,was at the Plessey Seam loader-end,where the loader lad was called EXACTLY that!!

[doon Bates pit!...in aroond 1971-ish...!]...and he wasn't firing arrows....he was loading 3-ton mine cars from a conveyor belt with coal!

One day the conveyor belts all stood for aboot half an hour...[a lot of coal production lost..]..and the Manager rang him to ask what was going on.....

.....the Manager asked who was speaking,and the poor lad had to reply........."Robin Hood".....!!

"come to my office tonight "...."but......but......."........"Office I said....."......"Aareet Mr ........"

When the Manager checked with the Pay Clerks,HE had to apologise to poor Robin!!...[his Mother and Father must have loved Richard Green..the

Original Robin Hood..!!]  Who is this Kotsner bloke you are talking about?.....you must watch a lot of movies then?...to know about such unheard of people!!........[deliberate mis-spelling for dramatic effect...artistic licence!]

Great to have a nice debate Tony!!

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

History books are like the Bible,and the Durham Mining Museum....!!

Very misinformed,distorted in places with the wrong facts,and very contradiictory....you take things with a pinch of salt,and don't get excited cos one book says different to another....or one History Teacher tells you how it was...!

Do you,for example,really believe that the angels were blokes with feathery wings....and lovely satiny skirts,or dresses....whichever way you want to view them?[and if they were,was there a factory unit set up to make them for the angels....and were the Angels all white in a black,or brown race of people...no obese ones...all slender built.....?...!!!]I am a believer!....with a different perspective of the whole scenario!!

The Durham Mining Museum,has loads of false information in,where people who refer to it to get "the facts and figures"

actually know nothing about the mining history,or they wouldn't need to refer to it!!

There are dates of fatalities for instance,at Choppington B Pit,which,to have been true,would have meant that I started the pit when I was 13 or 14 years old![people I worked with who were killed in the pit 10 minutes after I last spoke to them.....just to give a really sad example of how history is written and then "misconstrued"....is that the right word?]

Sorry it I went off a bit,but just trying to press a point that Maggie has also made!

Now let's all have a singsong for christmas eh?!!

Edited December 6, 2014 by HIGH PIT WILMA

[Maggie/915]

It would be great to have a Templar connection

Bedlingtonian.

Maybe we already have with the Masons.

[James]

Attached is a photo of Wheatley's memorial plaque that used to be on the wall near the bottom of the Village Infants playfield.

[Bedlingtonian]

Great post James

[pilgrim]

not sure if its been covered but - going wayyyyyyyyyyy back most churches named after Cuthbert were named after his resting places on the return to lindisfarne - there was one at causey park for example. although I suspect that the church at bedlington predated that because it was built on top of the sandstone ridge and most churches were at that time (or indeed took sites that were previously 'holy' under whatever god) you can trace the line of these churches all over the country -- but locally they are all on high points  - bedlington next is Horton aside cramlington - cramlington itself earsdon on the way down the coast --and many many more -- its interesting to get a map and plot them by contour points and gives some insight on early and indeed pre-Christianity. 

[Maggie/915]

Good points pilgrim.

We are on a pilgrimage route from Jarrow to Lindisfarne allegedly .

I think the name of our town and the religious site are of importantance to the history of ancient Bernicia.

[pilgrim]

check my post in the thread under 'willow bridge' its an underlying thing about why Bedlington is a shire and under the control of Durham. (its a bit offthread - but those of you with an interest might like to open a line of research.

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

What religion were the Anglo-Saxons?,and why did they build the first stone church there?.....the original Saxon Chancel arch still takes you up to the

Altar...even to this day....and the Saxons came in the 600-A.D.'s

[mercuryg]

There is a line of thinking that says the early Christians built their churches on sites that were already used for Pagan worship. A recent perusal of an old copy of Fortean Times (if you don't read it you really should, it's a mine of fascinating information) took me to an article that stated otherwise, that the 'overbuilding on pagan sites' stuff was a myth. I will dig out teh article when I have time and see if there is an online link to it, as it was a very interestign hypothesis.

 

Quick Google search says Anglo Saxons were initially Pagan but converted quite quickly to Christianity. St Cuthberts is a lovely church;I usually find them oppressive but this one is OK.

[pilgrim]

ill try again lol (kept dropping out- must be an age thing)

there is a good case that 'christianity' and the original diaspora was as a result of a disagreement between the sun worshippers (the 'christians' being expelled - its way back in the old texts and part of it was the banning of sacrifice other than at selected sites and there are definite 'christian' indicators in phaoronic times.

the romans adopted 'Christianity' as it suits the state -- it is one of the religions that requires the intercession of an official (priest) for you to speak to your god and have any 'response' interpreted for you, which gives huge control over the populace.

By the time of the demise of the roman empire in the west @400 ad it was fairly widespread.

This can be traced right through the mediaeval times.

Then the 'dark ages' so called because we know next to nowt about them due to lack of written resources.  â€‹

Churches are still laid out in the pattern of the temple of Solomon, the open area, for the people, the secondary area, then the inner sanctum only to be entered by the priest - ( this is not a masonic conspiracy lol) all strictly delineated.

A lot of the early 'places of worship' were wood and rebuilt over time and eventually in stone - then the normans gave the huge impetus for stone building and the 'glory' of bling. But the same sites were reused.

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

A hated history when a was 12-15 years old,more interested in electronics,and old valve radios and tv's!!

NOO,a find aal  this stuff really fascinating,and would love ti spend hours reading up on it....but equally fascinated by the Egyptians,and the Space

projects which are all happening noo.....where can a find a few spare hours in a day?................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks,Merc,and Pil,keep posting!

[pilgrim]

Religion is about the intereaction of what folk need to believe and what the state wants them to believe and also a matter of the mores and ethics at the time. (ducks down....and I don't mean feathers!)

The new testament to me seems to be written to fulfill the prophecies of the old testament, and is not contemporaneous, with only the book of john possibly being written from first or second hand knowledge of actual events and the personas involved. Maybe when they eventually release the quaram scrolls we might get an insight into the rebellion and aftermath.

The old testament - which seems to be dismissed by most clerics - unless it suits them - to me is much more interesting - as it is about people - it seems to hold 'race memories' of our ancient development -- eg the move from hunter gatherer to arable - the story of the mess of potage.. cain and abel etc etc . and also the 10 commandments are, if rationally considered, are what the UN have been trying to do for years - how to get along in peace. (Always keep in mind the huge time line of this)

Wilma - have a look at Elephantine Island and the possible migratory route of the 'lost tribe' which may have eventually ended up in Ethiopia - where there is a very 'odd' system of belief and has vestiges of the possible beliefs of the folk at the time of the 'red sea pedestrian' thingy. 

but remember -- you can speak to your god and that's OK - but if he speaks back to you directly (without the aid of a 'priest to interpret and (ahem) help you understand the true meaning) you are mad - as Joan D'Arc discovered (you can get away with it if you are the Pope or  a King)

[Maggie/915]

Very good question HPW

Religion can be whatever people want it to be.

Often power and corruption go hand in hand with religion.

The Anglo / Saxon's were no exception.

If you win a war because you believe God is on your side then that is the way forward.

Our town played a part in that I am sure.

What better place to be :-

Two rivers for defence

Lots of places to hide

Viewpoints to see clearly out to sea.

A little religion , Christian perhaps but worshiping the natural things in life Bedlington has it all .

There is a thought that when people believe in nothing they believe in anything .

The supernatural a believe in another space and time who knows .

Religion as an insurance policy.

Hence the Chantry in Morpeth .

A code of ethics and morals!

Religion and who believes what is still topical in any country anywhere.

We are in Spain and the diversity of opinion through the ages is amazing but so are the areas of agreement .

Architecture etc there is more to agree upon than disagree.

However power and corruption can be relevant in any age and time!

[pilgrim]

a wonderful poem by Robert Service called 'Raw Recruit' perhaps sums up some of this - I first read this some 50 yrs ago and it has stayed with me.