Petition to Call a Temporary Halt to All Immigration

[threegee]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/107516
 

Stop all immigration and close the UK borders until ISIS is defeated.

 

In February 2015 Dr Shea, Nato's Deputy Assistant Secretary General for Emerging Security Challenges, warned there would be IS jihadists on the refugee boats. IS also threatened to flood Europe with 500,000 jihadists.

 

Allowing uncontrolled immigration and taking in these refugees potentially endangers the entire UK population. At any other time in our history this would be tantamount to a declaration of war and borders would be closed.

 

An amazing 438,000 signatures with 840 signatures from Wansbeck, and 1000 from Blyth Valley so far.

[mercuryg]

A call to close the stable door after the horse has bolted....Of course there will be jihadists among the refugees; they will use every opportunity they can. There will also be refugees, who need our help.

[webtrekker]

Well, we're about to reap what we have sown, with all our ridiculous wars alongside our 'allies' and, of course, our 'special friends,' the US.

 

Start a war in a foreign country, then close your borders to all the innocent people fleeing that country. Nice.

 

These jihadists are killing innocent people in Europe, but is that not we've done to their people countless times? About 90% of the people killed in Drone strikes are innocent people, just like you and me.

 

Most of the terrorists are already here, hidden within our population. The terrorists at the Bataclan were speaking French FFS!

 

Call it conspiracy theory if you like, but many people reckon ISIS was concocted by the US (much the same as al-Qaeda). The same old, same old, .... Problem. Reaction. Solution, and believe me, you need to fear the solution more than the problem.

 

Just my two-pennorth.

[threegee]

A call to close the stable door after the horse has bolted....Of course there will be jihadists among the refugees; they will use every opportunity they can. There will also be refugees, who need our help.

 

I'm not sure that is entirely true. Terrorists and new recruits seem to be popping back and forth over the EU's borders like fully paid up tourists.  This isn't surprising when Mrs Merkel has private contractors trying to stem the flow.  They ask where are you from and why do you want entry to the EU; the expected answers being from Syria, and I'm a refugee!  And, that seems to be it!  Reportedly (by the BBC no less) the contracted interrogators only speak text book languages, and don't recognise or understand regional accents.

 

As for needing our help... well... 80% aren't even from Syria, or other zones of unrest, and the only Syrian "refugee" I saw being asked was disarmingly honest.  He said, no my family isn't under threat, it's simply that life has become miserable and we don't see it improving any time soon.  The real question is how many refugees the oil-rich Arab countries taking, and it seems the answer to that is zero!  You don't have to use much imagination to predict their justification: we refuse to import any more terrorism than we already have!

BTW the petition doesn't say refugees, it says immigration.  Exactly how those two entirely distinct concepts have come to be so comprehensively conflated is one of those wonders of bleeding-heart liberal left doublethink!  The German national guilt complex undoubtedly plays a large role in this conflation.

[Brian Cross]

Has anyone heard or read any accounts of Muslims being outraged re the recent deaths in France

perpetrated by Muslim extremists and apparently sanctioned by Allah ......i have heard nothing in this

country  they are very quiet .........i thought i would never say this but Vive La France

[mercuryg]

Has anyone heard or read any accounts of Muslims being outraged re the recent deaths in France

perpetrated by Muslim extremists and apparently sanctioned by Allah ......i have heard nothing in this

country  they are very quiet .........i thought i would never say this but Vive La France

 

Yes, I have; I've personally spoken to Muslim friends in the north of England who are not only horrified, but are living in fear. These are good, honest working people who lead everyday lives and go about their religious doings without bothering others; I may not agree with their beliefs, but I'm unwilling to lump them in with radicals who are intent on killing people. That said, you are absolutely right - the Muslim community needs to stand up and speak out about these people, but then so did those opposed to the Nazi's in WW2.

 

"BTW the petition doesn't say refugees, it says immigration.  Exactly how those two entirely distinct concepts have come to be so comprehensively conflated is one of those wonders of bleeding-heart liberal left doublethink!"

 

No, it's not, it's quite logical, and you're actually providing an example: when people mention 'immigrants' now, in this currentand recent climate, the image that pops up is not one of an Eastern European picking turnips outside Boston - which it once was - but of a middle eastern person, say, from Syria, a muslim, of course, for it is they who is 'the problem'. This is entirely because that's what the current news is focusing on - it's nothing to do with 'double think'.

 

"I'm not sure that is entirely true."

 

I see no part of my statement that is in any way untrue; there are terrorists here already, hence the stable door analogy; there are terrorists coming in with the refugees; there are people who need our help - because one man you saw interviewed didn't need our help does not mean other's don't.

 

"The real question is how many refugees the oil-rich Arab countries taking, and it seems the answer to that is zero! "

 

And? Are you suggesting a 'they're not doing it so why should we' approach? That's great, solves everything. It's my ball, I'm taking it home if you don't let me play. Perhaps I'm too soft, or maybe I see things in a different way to that you do, but Johnny Foreigner isn't the biggest problem the UK has right now. After all, without Mr Chahal's wonderrful emporium, where would I get my May San curry sauce?

Edited November 25, 2015 by mercuryg

[webtrekker]

Just a bit light-hearted relief in this serious debate ...

 

 

 

 

:D

[mercuryg]

Just a bit light-hearted relief in this serious debate ...

 

 

 

 

:D

The face says it all!

[pilgrim]

throwing a dafty in ..

estimate of 2% of 'refugees' are 'activists' - ie security risks

the EU allowed unhindered travel across its borders for 'nationals of member states' - so what went wrong?

look at the profile of those 'refugees' in camps etc... mostly young single men - then compare with real refugees in the first and 2nd wars (we may be looking at the 3rd ww now) - where are the families, the wives, the children?

consider the mass 'raids' on channel facilities to gain access - now who co-ordinated those?

the main camp in France has a disco/nightclub and the fast food places in the camp do great trade at 3am!!! - now consider yourself in the alleged situation of so many (not all in any way) how did they finance their trip across almost 2 continents and could you do the same ?? and how? - its always a good way to start - take it to a personal level and think it through -- say the UK really wasn't the place you wanted to be and you wanted to get out -- pick a country. look at what you have in the way of money and connections and then think - where would you start and how would you do it.(bearing in mind you have no passport and allegedly no connections where you have decided to go).

promoting a vast influx of disparate peoples onto another countries infrastructure is a tremendous way to destabilise the norm.

I have nothing against freedom of movement across borders, which are actually artificial  (but have a look at the first page of your passport and consider the treatment you get at airports etc!!!) and it makes a freer and more integrated society, but one has to ask why the UK?? are we so much better than our EU neighbours??

and finally --- oh yes the arab states -- well, lowest rating in the world for equality and one would expect nothing more.

[Canny lass]

" the petition doesn't say refugees it says immigration. Exactly how these two entirely distinct concepts have come to be so comprehensibly conflated is one of those wonders of bleeding-heart liberal left double-think" . I'm having difficulties understanding the same thing with immigrant and terrorist.

 

Brian, you ask if anyone has Heard of any muslims being outraged at the Deaths in France. I have. Here the muslim Community is one of the largest help groups, dishing out clothes and food to incoming immigrants. Of course, there are those who accuse them of "looking after their own". Simple arithmetic will tell you there can't be that many terrorists. Sure, there will be one or two - to join the throng who've been there for years - but tarring everybody with the same brush is not going to help. There are extremists in all walks of Life: religious fanatics, environmentalists, terrorists and racists - to mention but a few.

 

Pilgrim, you ask how they finance their journey. Some of them have studied and worked hard och earned their Money in much the same way as you and I. The majority, however have had their journey financed by their parents or grandparents. They have sold Everything they possess to be able to give there younger relatives the chance to, first and formost, SURVIVE and secondly to have a better Life. They choose to live in poverty themselves in order to do this and have a very simple philosophy - "I've had my Life, son. It doesn't matter if I die now. You have your Life ahead of you, but there's no future here". Can you honestly say, that in the same situation, you wouldn't do the same thing?

 

Where to start? getting people out of their country and into Another without a passport is big business these Days. It's not hard to find someone if you can pay the asking price.

[Tonyp]

Brian why did you leave Bedlington,bet you never went on a raft ?? Did Australia give you better opportunities than good old bedders I Think so.Mmm

[Maggie/915]

The news in the NE yesterday featured a Muslim girl abused by a lout on the metro.

People power to the rescue.

Lout forced off the train at the next stop.

The result was everyone clapped.

I wish all the World troubles could be settled so easily .

The truth of all these issues is in there somewhere.

[Brian Cross]

Tony p yes Aust has given me a lot to be thankfull for and we did not arrive here on a raft

I think my message has been misread by some folk i only asked if there was any Muslims

outraged by the recent events in Paris

[Brian Cross]

Tony the raft we arrived on was the "Cheshire" and we migrated here legally

[Tonyp]

Brian I don't want to argue with you I admire what you have done for yourself & family. But the Syrians that spent thousands landing on a beach in lesbos there vessel wasn't called the Cheshire, what annoys me me is an immigrant having a pop at another one maybe it's a proud old British thing..

[threegee]

...

 

Brian, you ask if anyone has Heard of any muslims being outraged at the Deaths in France. I have. Here the muslim Community is one of the largest help groups, dishing out clothes and food to incoming immigrants. Of course, there are those who accuse them of "looking after their own". Simple arithmetic will tell you there can't be that many terrorists. Sure, there will be one or two - to join the throng who've been there for years - but tarring everybody with the same brush is not going to help. There are extremists in all walks of Life: religious fanatics, environmentalists, terrorists and racists - to mention but a few.

 

Pilgrim, you ask how they finance their journey. Some of them have studied and worked hard och earned their Money in much the same way as you and I. The majority, however have had their journey financed by their parents or grandparents. They have sold Everything they possess to be able to give there younger relatives the chance to, first and formost, SURVIVE and secondly to have a better Life. They choose to live in poverty themselves in order to do this and have a very simple philosophy - "I've had my Life, son. It doesn't matter if I die now. You have your Life ahead of you, but there's no future here". Can you honestly say, that in the same situation, you wouldn't do the same thing?

 

Where to start? getting people out of their country and into Another without a passport is big business these Days. It's not hard to find someone if you can pay the asking price.

 

It's not about some individuals doing/saying the right thing, or indeed "simple arithmetic", it's about a religion that is full of hate, advocates violence, and is absolutely intolerant of ALL other religions. This is a core issue, and why the religious leaders themselves don't speak out.

 

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

 

...it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

 

If this really was a religion like other religions all these calls to violence would be excised, but they are not, and that simple fact is telling! That we even tolerate a parallel legal system to our own country is crazy.  We send the barbarians all the wrong messages then wonder why they treat western civilisation with contempt.

 

Put simply: You can't fight extreme intolerance with tolerance, at some point you have to stand up to it and say enough!  Just about all senior politicians have now admitted that multiculturalism doesn't work - yes, even Mrs Merkel. But, they are singularly clueless about how to reverse the folly.  Mrs Merkel's answer to just about every problem on the planet is that everyone must behave like a good German - somehow I don't think that Islam sees things her way!

[Brian Cross]

Brian I don't want to argue with you I admire what you have done for yourself & family. But the Syrians that spent thousands landing on a beach in lesbos there vessel wasn't called the Cheshire, what annoys me me is an immigrant having a pop at another one maybe it's a proud old British thing..

My family and me were migrants to this country when we arrived here we worked hard for a living we did not expect govt handouts my father worked in the coal mines of the south coast and my Mam worked night shift in the local hospital for21 yrs we assimilated into the Australian culture quickly.

yes Tony i am a migrant and proudly British,i was not having a pop at anyone just asking a question.

[mercuryg]

I didn't see Brian 'having a pop' at anyone; he simpl;y positied a point that many would have made. It's a valid one. Maggie, I saw that news item too, about the Muslim girl on the train. I would have responded the same way as the other passengers, and am thankful that they had the guts to do it. Nobody deserves to be abused in such a fashion for their beliefs, colour, creed or whatever. The story says that hate crimes against muslims have risen something like 250% since the Paris attacks; that's hardly surprising given the utter ignorance of many people. How can we expect them to stand up and protest against ISIS when they are fearful of those in their own community?

[mercuryg]

"If this really was a religion like other religions all these calls to violence would be excised, but they are not, and that simple fact is telling!"

 

What? Seriously, you're clearly an intelligent person, but you're happy to tar them all with the same brush? Are you saying that ALL muslims are acting violently and killing people, etc? Are you blind to the fact that most, in fact, go about their lives without troubling anyone, just as do the Hindu's, Sikhs, and others who live among our society? Are all Chinese Triads who cut peoples hands off etc? You're getting your radicals mixed up with the ordinary people who follow Islam. Furthermore, Christians have a history of bloody, needless violence throughout the ages; what about them?

[webtrekker]

There were two Muslim girls on the train, sisters, and I work with their brother. I would never, in a million years, expect any trouble at all from this family.

 

The thing to remember with Islamism though, is that you're in it for life. You can't just chop and change religions or become an atheist, it's not allowed, upon pain of death. In fact, it's against their religion to take your own life, which is why it's thought that many suicide bombers had suicidal tendencies in the first place and becoming a 'martyr' was the only way of achieving their aim without offending Allah.

[threegee]

"If this really was a religion like other religions all these calls to violence would be excised, but they are not, and that simple fact is telling!"

 

What? Seriously, you're clearly an intelligent person, but you're happy to tar them all with the same brush? Are you saying that ALL muslims are acting violently and killing people, etc? Are you blind to the fact that most, in fact, go about their lives without troubling anyone, just as do the Hindu's, Sikhs, and others who live among our society? Are all Chinese Triads who cut peoples hands off etc? You're getting your radicals mixed up with the ordinary people who follow Islam. Furthermore, Christians have a history of bloody, needless violence throughout the ages; what about them?

 

Excuse me but that sentence referred to the ideology, and that was clear from my post too.

 

Like many people I do believe that there's an underlying acceptance on behalf of very many Muslims of extremism.  It's simply not enough to say that the extremists are wrong, or that they are misinterpreting their scriptures.  The Quran is directly opposed to all decent modern standards of behaviour.  If you take this text as your law - as Sharia courts do - then you are following a barbarous ideology that has no place in the modern world.

 

If you study that link you will find that comparisons with Christianity are entirely spurious. No Christian work advocates an intolerance of other beliefs, there's no Christian word for killing unbelievers, and no Christian cleric would miss any opportunity of condemning violence, especially violence in the very name of Christianity.

 

The position of many in this country is tantamount to saying it's OK to take in immigrants from an area infected by Ebola as just a few of them have it in an infectious form!  There's now a very significant number of people in our country who believe that Islam and Sharia law must be imposed on everyone, and that there's a divine inevitability in this.  To pretend otherwise, and to pretend that other far less extreme Muslims won't go along with this when the call comes is extreme folly.  The Muslim community must come out and condemn the extremists in a way that it has utterly failed to do up until now, else the outlook for our country is bleak.  We can all see the demographic time bomb ticking away, and no one more so than the extremists.

[pilgrim]

are we missing the basic point of the criminality displayed at the borders and channel ports?

immigration has a process and the vast majority of applicants who can prove they meet they criteria are accepted and integrated with no issues.

i know someone very well who sits on immigration and  asylum tribunals and the vast majority of cases heard have no worth, but its very difficult to deport anyone once they are in.

I have no issues with genuine migrants who abide by due legal process but I do have huge concerns about those allegedly refugees who appear to be able to stop at nothing to gain access to the uk - one must ask - why the UK?

[Canny lass]

" It's about a religion that's full of hate, advocates violence and is absolutely intolerant of ALL other religions". You have clearly read a different version of the Koran than I - and a billion muslims the World over - have read (in my case albeit a translation). I can agree that it in some ways it advocates violence but only because it advocates corrporal punishment, just as the UK did until the 1950s, and not because it advocates violence for any other reason. However, I've not found any mention of hate anywhere. As for ALL other religions not being tolerated, I'm afraid that's simply not true.

 

You talk of muslims as though they are all the same. They are not. The islamic religion is devided into two Groups. On the one hand you have the Shia muslims, which make up a grand total of 10 - 15% of the approximately 1½ billion muslims in the World. On the other hand, you have the Sunni muslims, who make up the remaining 85 - 90 %. Both Groups share the same fundamental beliefs and practices. They've managed to agree that there is only one God in their religion and that he shall be called Allah. They've even agreed that Mohammed is his Messenger. Both Groups follow the same 5 basic principles of Islam and they both use the same holy book - the Koran. Here, the likeness stops for when it comes to such things as doctrine and law they haven't quite got their act together and havent yet managed to agree - and probably never will. 

 

On the subject of doctrine, the Sunni, on the one hand, have come to rely on the practice of the Prophet Mohammed and his teachings just as Christians the World over have come to rely on God and his teachings. The Shia, on the other hand view their ayatollahs as the embodiment of their God on this Earth. These differences have been around for many centuries and had their origins in the dispute over who should step into the Prophet Mohammed's shoes when he died.The Sunni Group won the 'battle' and the Shia Group have been angry ever since. Furthermore, while the Shia believe in the existence of one God only, Allah, the Sunni, respect the difference between individuals when it comes to choosing their God.

 

On the subject of law, Both Groups are subject to Sharia law. That's logical really as it's based on the Koran and, to a certain extent on the Sunna (a compliment to the Koran). However - and this is a big HOWEVER - both Groups do not interpret Sharia law in the same way! The same Group in different countries can also interpret Sharia in different ways. The same Group in two different Cultures can also interpret Sharia in different ways and even individuals can interpret it in different ways. It is thought that the Shia Group are more fundamental in their interpretation than the Sunni. This is no easy law to apply!!

 

I think you are mistaken 3g when you say that muslim law function parallel to the legal system in Britain. I assume, maybe wrongly - but then I'm sure you will correct me, that you are referring to the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal (1966). This is not a separate legal system but part and parcel of the British legal system dealing with questions of civil law.

 

Most muslims belong to the less extreme Sunni Group and live very peaceably as good Citizens in their host country. Isn't it time we stopped tarring every muslim with the same Dirty brush. Instead of talking generally about muslims when talking of terrorists why not just use the terrorist Word? How many procent of the 10% fundamentalists are we talking about here?

[threegee]

...

 

Most muslims belong to the less extreme Sunni Group and live very peaceably as good Citizens in their host country. Isn't it time we stopped tarring every muslim with the same Dirty brush. Instead of talking generally about muslims when talking of terrorists why not just use the terrorist Word? How many procent of the 10% fundamentalists are we talking about here?

 

Hmm... let's say that one morning we all wake to find the media saturated with the news that 1000 alien spaceship are orbiting the Earth.  During the night several warlike incidents have occurred and many humans have been killed.  Then, one such craft lands on the Town Moor and the occupants tell us that we have nothing to fear - yes, they are all from planet Zog, and they all have a common belief system, but only 10% of the spacecraft are occupied by aliens who mean us harm and the rest are peace loving refugees from a planet that has been made uninhabitable by their mutual warring.  They decline to adopt our way of life, and intend to proceed in the same belief system which culminated in the desertion of their own planet, but we should be happy about this multicultural experience.

 

I suspect that the unified reply of the human race would be to take your problems away and sort them out yourselves, because they are not our problems.  When we sort our own problems we'll call you to see if you've sorted yours, but meanwhile stay the *&(*&(* away from us or we'll nuke any alien craft on sight.

 

I also suspect we'd have a tiny minority of Zoginistas who tell us we were all wrong and that we must discount the mounting carnage and consider the "obvious economic benefits" of harbouring aliens. We should volunteer those people to go on our own space mission to colonise other worlds - because the group will likely contain all those interplanetary-experienced humans who've been abducted by aliens in the past!

[Canny lass]

Ah! I see you read the Beano too 3g!

 

Are you trying to tell me that I should believe that all all Brits are murderers just because a couple of them have been tried and convicted for that crime? I'd better keep that quiet for the Swedish government. They might send me back!