Dave caught out again

[threegee]

4 hours ago, moe19 said:

...

I don't care what ex pats living in Benidorm want.

...

I think these ex-pats have been done a disservice by the media.  I'd like to place money on the fact that the great majority will vote for their country and not for any mistakenly believed self interest. Very few ex-pats are fooled by the silly threats of them losing their homes or being forced to return to the UK, or any of the other nonsense coming out of Dodgy Dave's campaign back-door.  Most of them know someone who is English speaking in their area who comes from a non-EU country (USA, Canada etc.) and get to swap experiences.  Apart from the odd extra form to fill in there's nothing significantly different in their lifestyle, and everyone there before Brexit has acquired rights under the Vienna Convention anyway.

They all pay significant amounts into the local economy (unlike the lies being told about them "living and working in the EU"), and if the UK were to retaliate against that nations' citizens who hold down UK jobs the host nation would suffer a double economic hit. These are generally countries that the EU has already forced to join the bread line, and have huge levels of unemployment.  Even if they were ordered by Brussels eurocrats to break international law they wouldn't comply.  And, just suppose this were to happen in certain areas, what Brit would want to live in and pay tax into a country that didn't want them, when there are a host of English-speaking countries in the world that would love to take their retirement money?

The truth is that there's already huge anti-EU feeling in these countries, and an EU being seen to be spiteful towards a national grouping, and flouting international law, would tip even more decent people over into the anti camp - so, an EU own goal several times over!

[threegee]

23 hours ago, moe19 said:

I was disgusted by the way Boris was attacked by  Nicola Sturgeon, Angela Eagle and Amber Rudd on what was supposed to be a debate last night on TV. the coven wasted the whole so called debate  by making personal attacks on Boris.

Later on the Bias Broadcasting Corporations question time  luvvie Eddie Izzard  was attacking  Nigel Farage. its the first time I have ever heard a question time audience   shouting shut up to the panel.

The behaviour of these folk are doing more for the leave campaign  than for dodgy Daves quest that they claim to back .

...

It seems that the Witches of Davewick have gifted Boris a significant sympathy vote.

Ms Izzard made an utter fool of him/her/self.  Exactly what the BBC Guardinistas were thinking when they chose Izzard to represent the Remain case could be a long discussion on another thread.  My first guess might be that it could reveal Nigel Farage's essential "bigotry" toward LGBT (did I get all this week's initials right?) people and by implication that he was a "racist" too.  Was the pink beret Che-Guevara-symbolic of a "pink" revolutionary, but - more importantly - did it match the lipstick?  As someone who supports the Fourth Reich, accusing Nigel Farage of betraying his Huguenot roots was choice!

[moe19]

A video has emerged alongside allegations that UK police are attempting to stop ‘Leave’ campaigners from soliciting support  leaving the ‘Stronger In’ or ‘Remain’ campaigners to campaign on the same street.

 

 

 

[webtrekker]

Well, from that video, you can see what's going to happen when we've left the EU. The vindictive 'Remainers' will be out for revenge ...

[threegee]

Quote

Mr Schäuble urged the British people to remain in the EU and said Germany would offer a way back in if it turns out to be a big mistake.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/679270/Germany-cut-Britain-off-EU-single-market-Brexit

Hang on in there: didn't Honest Dave tell us that there's absolutely, positively, genuinely, cast-iron-promisingly, no going back from an LEAVE vote?  And, how can Germany possibly make such a commitment on behalf of the other 26 "nations"?  It's almost as if Germany thinks they will all do exactly as they are told by the Fuhrer - oops German Chancellor! 

Confused?  Well... take heart... you're certainly nothing like as confused as both the Tory and Labour parties!  Seems like the "fruitcakes and swivel-eyed loons" are the only ones who've been consistently telling it as it is!

[Canny lass]

There are a few thigs about that video that make me stop and think:

It's not just any video made by a passer-by on the spur of the minute. Flashing lights!

It's made by a hired company - 'Spider studios plus' who charge 699 quid for a 3.5 minute video. (This one is 3.25 mins) Did they just happen to be passing? Warning bells!

Price includes "supporting B-roll footage and upload to choice of media. Sirens!

It's been upploaded to Youtube, Facebook, Newsbout and Breitbart. Sirens and flashing lights!

The incident doesn't get a mention in either, the Caerphilly Observer or The South Wales Echo, the two leading newspapers for the area. Sirens, flashing lights and warning bells!

Even UKIP Wales doesn't give it a mention on their website.

[threegee]

Could it be possible that - like many enterprises - the proprietors/workers feel strongly motivated to preserve our democracy, and are simply doing what they do best using the facilities to hand?  No £699 / 3.5 min charge, and no warning bells there!

Why would Ukip Wales even know about this - yet?  It's not just kippers who feel strongly about EU intrusion into every aspect of their lives - it's people across the political spectrum (excepting those who haven't now completely sold out on their once sincerely held beliefs, like Jeremy C!).

[Canny lass]

13 minutes ago, threegee said:

Why would Ukip Wales even know about this - yet?

I believe Caerphilly is in Wales - was when I lived there - and isn't Sam Gould's the Ukip MP for the constituency of Caerphilly?

 

17 minutes ago, threegee said:

Could it be possible that - like many enterprises - the proprietors/workers feel strongly motivated to preserve our democracy

It could indeed be possible. Is it also possible that they just  happened to be passing by on that one day when someone called the police? Strange they weren't just passing by on any of the other 20 days of that campaign (I think he said he's been there for three weeks).

[Canny lass]

Anther couple of things about that video that 'puzzle' me:

Gould says he was moved on because "we are winning". This is the 11th of June. A poll on the 9th of June in Caerphilly puts the figures at 18% undecided, 41% leave, 41% remain.

It's a while since I've been in Caerphilly but I'm not sure that Wayne Davis could be "looking on", with pleasure or otherwise (hard to see), from where he's standing.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Canny lass

[threegee]

2 hours ago, Canny lass said:

I believe Caerphilly is in Wales - was when I lived there - and isn't Sam Gould's the Ukip MP for the constituency of Caerphilly?

The Labour Party could be gutted to find that they've now lost one of their very safest seats.  But... you may simply being prophetic for 2020 here, as Ukip has gone from zero to biting the heels of the Welsh Nats in the Welsh Assembly.  Unlike you I've mostly missed Wales on my travels, but I'm really starting to warm to the Welsh in my old age -  Iechyd da!

 

[moe19]

Well I have no idea about  any of the points that canny lass mentions, my concern is that the police and council should not be showing partiality to any side of this campaign . 

freedom of speech must be protected or democracy is dead. 

    

[Canny lass]

2 hours ago, moe19 said:

Well I have no idea about  any of the points that canny lass mentions, my concern is that the police and council should not be showing partiality to any side of this campaign . 

freedom of speech must be protected or democracy is dead. 

    

I couldn't agree with you more, Moe. What I'm saying is that there is something about that video which doesn't quite ring true. Do we KNOW that the police and council workers were showing partiality? We only hear one side of:

Why there were (many?) police there. I only saw three, (all high viz jackets are not worn by police).

Why the leave campaigners were asked to move? (Having onced crashed my car on that very corner, I know that it's a very dangerous corner). Maybe the request to move had something to do with traffic.

Why, to quote Breibart, "the local campaigner Sam Gould took the opportunity to film the incident"? (We didn't see or hear any of the incident).

Why there just happened to be a film crew from Spider studio plus at that very spot.

Why we don't see the campaigners being asked to move? We only see Gould complaining about being moved.

Why we don't see Wayne David anywhere near the stand(s) which Gould mentions?

And finally I have to ask why an incident of such significance hasn't been reported in any press, local or National, or by Ukip Wales?

Misunderstand me correctly, I have no interest one way or the other. Having lived outside of the UK in excess of the stipulated 15 years, I don't even have a vote. I can see advantages and disadvantages both in staying and in leaving. I'm not saying Gould is lying. I'm not saying Gould is telling the truth. I'm saying that, to me, this video 'smells'. Of course, just as all that glitters is not gold so all that smells of sh*t isn't necessarily sh*t. It may just have spent too long in the company of an asshole. I'm just thinking critically and advising others to do likewise.

[Canny lass]

2 hours ago, threegee said:

Iechyd da

My health is fine, thank you, apart from the persistent pain in the neck.

[Maggie/915]

Great reading Canny Lass.

[threegee]

2 hours ago, Canny lass said:

I couldn't agree with you more, Moe. What I'm saying is that there is something about that video which doesn't quite ring true. Do we KNOW that the police and council workers were showing partiality? We only hear one side of:

Why there were (many?) police there. I only saw three, (all high viz jackets are not worn by police).

Why the leave campaigners were asked to move? (Having onced crashed my car on that very corner, I know that it's a very dangerous corner). Maybe the request to move had something to do with traffic.

Why, to quote Breibart, "the local campaigner Sam Gould took the opportunity to film the incident"? (We didn't see or hear any of the incident).

Why there just happened to be a film crew from Spider studio plus at that very spot.

Why we don't see the campaigners being asked to move? We only see Gould complaining about being moved.

Why we don't see Wayne David anywhere near the stand(s) which Gould mentions?

And finally I have to ask why an incident of such significance hasn't been reported in any press, local or National, or by Ukip Wales?

Misunderstand me correctly, I have no interest one way or the other. Having lived outside of the UK in excess of the stipulated 15 years, I don't even have a vote. I can see advantages and disadvantages both in staying and in leaving. I'm not saying Gould is lying. I'm not saying Gould is telling the truth. I'm saying that, to me, this video 'smells'. Of course, just as all that glitters is not gold so all that smells of sh*t isn't necessarily sh*t. It may just have spent too long in the company of an asshole. I'm just thinking critically and advising others to do likewise.

Opening shot: 3 police though one might have been council official. (no turbans or policewomen)

1:26:  Two or three police.

1:31:  One police (one with turban) plus a rather threatening policeman or council official.

1:35:  Policeman with turban again, plus policewoman.

1:38   ditto.

1:40   ditto.

2:02  Three police officials obviously pressuring "GO" stall which clearly isn't causing any traffic or pedestrian obstruction.

2:22  Two police again, with Remain stall not being harassed.

It would appear that the prime motivator here was a councillor and his officials, and that the police were only doing what they were asked to do by the council.  I know from practical experience how amazingly camera shy our police can be, and these don't appear to be exceptional in that respect.

If I said something like "there is something about that video which doesn't quite ring true" you'd have derided my lack of hard evidence. Yet, here you display a baffling degree of criticality for someone who otherwise offers excuses for (and clearly sides with those who wish to turn a blind eye to) mass sex crimes!

"I have no interest one way or the other."   Oh, I think you surely do! 

[threegee]

2 hours ago, Canny lass said:

My health is fine, thank you, apart from the persistent pain in the neck.

That's great, then please revisit your entirely disinterested comments in the light of this:

Quote

Mark Reckless AM ‏@MarkReckless Jun 12

I have now had several reports of councils and police shutting down @vote_leave campaign stalls this weekend across the Gwent police area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Reckless  does this meet with your wish for official endorsement on the issue, or should we hold out for the result of Chilcot to see if it gets a mention there?

[Malcolm Robinson]

The basic unfairness shown in that video, if true, would get me out on the streets!   

[moe19]

Wayne David has confirmed the leave campaigners were moved on. 

Why they were allowed to campaign on that spot for weeks before and nothing done. and why was another of the campaigners stands in the town  also closed down

 

Wayne David said, "Sam Gould knows that when the Police asked the Leave supporters to move their stall (for, I am told, safety reasons as it was close to a zebra crossing), I was not in the vicinity.

 

http://www.waynedavid.co.uk/wayne_david_criticises_leave_campaign_for_intimidation_and_lies_in_caerphilly

Edited June 14, 2016 by moe19

[threegee]

Do the police generally hand out three page lists of bye-laws, or did some councillor or council official come primed with a long list of possible excuses intent on selecting the most convenient one as cover for their intended purpose?  Amazing that our otherwise perceptive CL didn't see this in the video!

[Canny lass]

19 hours ago, threegee said:

Opening shot: 3 police though one might have been council official. (no turbans or policewomen)

1:26:  Two or three police.

1:31:  One police (one with turban) plus a rather threatening policeman or council official.

1:35:  Policeman with turban again, plus policewoman.

1:38   ditto.

1:40   ditto.

2:02  Three police officials obviously pressuring "GO" stall which clearly isn't causing any traffic or pedestrian obstruction.

2:22  Two police again, with Remain stall not being harassed.

Well, I’ve had another look at that video and I have to admit I WAS WRONG!

There are not three policemen. There is only ONE.

00.18 Opening shot: Two Community Support Officers – it says so clearly, in English, on the back of their high viz vests. There is definitely one council worker in high viz jacket standing behind Sam Gould – Gould himself says so pointing:  “the council worker, just here behind me, was sent down to …”

01.26 Not “2 or 3 police” but 1 police (in Turban) and one male Community Support Officer (it says so on his high viz vest) , the blue shirt’s a dead give-away as well, on the corner of Castle Street and Market Street.

01.31 Not “one police (with turban) plus a rather threatening policeman or council official” but one female Police Community Support Officer (it says so on her high viz vest) with pony tail, and one other person in high viz jacket but I’ve no idea what he does for a living, on the same corner, opposite side of the road.

01.33 Same corner, same policeman (with turban) plus the guy above in the high viz jacket who has now crossed the road.

01.35 Same corner, same policeman (in turban) plus the Police Community Support Officer talking to an extremely cheerful looking ‘Leave’- campaign worker.

01.38 Same place, close up image of afore mentioned policeman (with turban) and female Police Community Support Officer with pony tail.

01.40 Same place, back view of same policeman (with turban) and female Police Community Support Officer with pony tail.

02.01 Same place again, same policeman again (with turban) and same female Police Community Support Officer with pony tail standing by the ‘Leave campaign stand’. No sign of any ‘pressurizing’ seen at this end. Perhaps you can explain just how this pressurizing manifests itself and we’ll have another look

02.22 This is getting a bit boring, I know, but same place, same police officer (with turban) and same Police Community Support Officer (with pony tail). We don’t see any ‘harassing’ going on at any stand. Again, perhaps you can explain how this harassment is manifesting itself and we’ll have another look.

03.03 One Community Support Officer, same one seen at 01.26

[Canny lass]

19 hours ago, threegee said:

I know from practical experience how amazingly camera shy our police can be, and these don't appear to be exceptional in that respect.

Well, this one's certainly not camera shy. Just the opposite.

[Canny lass]

19 hours ago, threegee said:

If I said something like "there is something about that video which doesn't quite ring true" you'd have derided my lack of hard evidence. Yet, here you display a baffling degree of criticality for someone who otherwise offers excuses for (and clearly sides with those who wish to turn a blind eye to) mass sex crimes!

I often ask you to support, preferably with fact, some statements which I perceive as logically fallacious. That is not derision. That is debate.

What on earth do sex crimes have to do with this? I find your last remark childish, in the present context, and that is not becoming of a man of your maturity. At no time have I offered any excuse for mass sex crimes. Neither do I know anyone who turns a blind eye to sex crimes and don't recall having sided with anyone on the subject of sex crimes. You are totally and utterly out of turn in saying so. 

9 hours ago, threegee said:

Do the police generally hand out three page lists of bye-laws, or did some councillor or council official come primed with a long list of possible excuses intent on selecting the most convenient one as cover for their intended purpose?  Amazing that our otherwise perceptive CL didn't see this in the video!

3g, I cannot see something that isn't there - no matter what my powers of perception may, or may not, be! I saw two sheets of paper being held in a hand. I've no idea whose hand. The two sheets of paper contained the index to The Highways Act 1980. At 01.14 we are informed that: "Sam was shown this bit of law on a piece of paper, citing the Highways Act 1980 and was told that he was in breach of it by causing an obstruction and a nuisance". At no point was any information given relating to who had shown him the paper. I did find that strange. Had it said 'police' or 'council official' it would have added fuel to his argument. However, it did not mention either. One can only speculate as to why. BTW, The Highways Act 1980 is not a by-law. It is an act of parliament.

[Canny lass]

20 hours ago, threegee said:

"I have no interest one way or the other."   Oh, I think you surely do! 

I think I know my own mind somewhat better than you and I assure you that I have no interest one way or the other should Britain choose to stay or go. I do not have a vote because I have not lived in the UK for more than 15 years. In some ways I'm happy not to have a vote. I don't think I could choose. As I said previously, there are advantages and disadvantages which ever way it goes - it's six of one and two threes of the other for me. Like you, I'm not happy with how things are dealt with in Brussels. Unlike you, I think there are more ways than one to deal with the problem. 

You seem to think that you can guess the political persuasion of  everone judging by the newspapers they read. It doesn't work that way I'm afraid. I cannot say that I have any particular political persusion. When it's time to vote, I seek information, often from several sources, From that information, my personal situation at the time, the state of the UK, the state of Europe (or the state of my county if the vote is here). Based on that information I make my decision on how to vote. I find my persuasion changes as i get older. This means that at times, I have voted Labour, at times I have voted Conservative, at times I have voted Liberal and everything else in between. Very often I place a blank ballot paper in the box. I do this when I don't think any of the parties have anything to offer. Unfortunately, that is becoming increasingly often! I think it's important that they know there are dissatisfied voters. 

[Canny lass]

14 hours ago, moe19 said:

Wayne David said, "Sam Gould knows that when the Police asked the Leave supporters to move their stall (for, I am told, safety reasons as it was close to a zebra crossing), I was not in the vicinity.

Moe, I was very happy to read this. I knew from the background that he couldn't have been "looking on" as stated in the video. Another point of interest is that today I learned that the policeman (singular) and the Community Support Officers were there, as usual, because it was Farmers' Market Day 10am - 2pm. They are there EVERY farmers' Market Day. However, this is a monthly event occurring on the second Saturday of the month. Hardly surprising then that Sam hadn't seen them earlier. I know that junction 'painfully' well and it is not the best place to have a crowd collecting, especially on a market day. I'd have asked him to move as well. 

[Brian Cross]

Whats the feeling lads in or out ?