Whats the EU ever done for us.......

[Malcolm Robinson]

THIS IS WHY WE VOTED TO LEAVE THE EU

There is absolutely no excuse for British industry being decimated by the EU. We were not prepared to stand by and let them continue.


A few thoughts to ponder. 



Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant ...in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.

Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.

Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.

Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.

Marks & Spencer manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.

Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.

Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.

ICI integration into Holland’s Akzo Nobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs

Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.

JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.

Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to 
their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. 

The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, there used to be many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,

1 You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.

2 You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.

[bluebarby]

Well Malcolm that is quite an impressive list of 'swings' but why do you not make any mention of 'roundabouts'? Are you saying, in true UKIP style that it was all one way? We gave a lot and got nowt back, is that what you are saying or implying? Or is it a poor, as it seems to me, feeble attempt at an apology to the younger citizens of our nation that a generation of well past their sell by dates shafted their aspirations of a promising future? Am I wrong?

Why not balance things up and give us a list of 'roundabouts'. Yes there are 'roundabouts', as a design engineer I personally worked on 4 that enticed approx 9000 jobs into the NE plus ancillaries and there were a lot more, some small and some big. 

Strikes me if all the jobs lost on the 'swings' on your list were added up then the question has to be asked why is our unemployment rate not twice what it is? Ummmmmm!

As someone with an interest in what Hornby used to make I seem to remember that they ditched the UK for China years ago. Nothing to do with the EU and what patents are they supposed to have/had? 

But enough, there are non so blind as those that refuse to look past the end of their nose. However, speaking as some one who is also well past his 'best before' I can sleep peacefully in my bed at night knowing that I discussed all the 'swings' and 'roundabouts' with my grandchildren and their friends then voted in the referendum accordingly. 

That is why I voted to stay in the EU.

 

[Spuggy]

bluebarby I wholeheartedly second this motion!!!

Edited July 9, 2016 by Spuggy
Title

[mercuryg]

While I respect Malcolm's views, I suggest he fails to take into account that businesses will still move abroad, with the aid of EU grants, when we are no longer part of the EU. Perhaps even more so. 

[webtrekker]

No matter, it'll all go tits-up when Deutsche Bank collapses ...

 

 

[moe19]

The EU is starting to unravel  it's just a matter of time before its  all over for the unaudited, unsackable, unelected, gravy-train riders

Edited July 9, 2016 by moe19

[bluebarby]

I think the best inquest I have read so far into this referendum mess and it's dire consequences is this Canadian one, well worth a read.

opencanada.org  A Brexit post mortem :17 takeaways for a fallen David  Cameron 

A recommended  read but not just before bedtime for the vote leave and a realistic forecast of the future.

[webtrekker]

31 minutes ago, bluebarby said:

I think the best inquest I have read so far into this referendum mess and it's dire consequences is this Canadian one, well worth a read.

opencanada.org  A Brexit post mortem :17 takeaways for a fallen David  Cameron 

A recommended  read but not just before bedtime for the vote leave and a realistic forecast of the future.

 

Hmm ... Interesting points, but anyone can appear wise after the event.

[Spuggy]

 

bluebarby

SPUGGY – disagrees with your recommendation.

They should have read it before & after every single form of nourishment intake.

Be it morning, noon or night for the rest of their…

A sensible person would have done a comprehensive analysis of the facts before committing themselves to such a vote.

Sound-Bytes & Buzz-Words do not contain any facts...

(P.S.) The first sentence, fantastic

Spoiler alert:

Brexiteers who now permit themselves to read only positive articles about the project to leave the European Union, should cease reading immediately.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Spuggy
Context

[bluebarby]

I think this quote just about sums up the Brexit thinking:- 

"The thinking of the leave side is magical. It plucks at a dimly remembered but glorified past (that was never as good as nostalgia makes it) and offers a future that is imaginary."

[moe19]

One man's meat is another man's poison things liked by one person may be distasteful to another,but we are very lucky to live in a democratic society.

 

Something that one person likes may be distasteful to someone else. Fred: What do you mean you don't like French fries? They're the best food in the world! Alan: One man's meat is another man's poison. Jill: I don't understand why Don doesn't like to read science fiction. It's the most interesting thing to read. Jane: I wouldn't want to do her job, but she seems to love it.  One man's meat is another man's poison.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/One+man's+meat+is+another+man's+poison

Edited July 9, 2016 by moe19

[webtrekker]

1 hour ago, bluebarby said:

I think this quote just about sums up the Brexit thinking:- 

"The thinking of the leave side is magical. It plucks at a dimly remembered but glorified past (that was never as good as nostalgia makes it) and offers a future that is imaginary."

 

Well, it seems like the Brexit thinking you mention is becoming contagious! ...

 

[Spuggy]

Malcolm Robinson

THIS IS WHY WE VOTED TO LEAVE THE EU

moe19

One man's meat is another man's poison things liked by one person may be distasteful to another,but we are very lucky to live in a democratic society.

At what time in history has luck had anything to do with DEMOCRACY…???

Albeit DEMOCRACY … Reductio ad absurdum. . .

DEMOCRACY REDUCED TO ABSURDITY…

YOU, Me, No One is ENTITLED TO A “UK BRITISH, ENGLISH, WELSH, SCOTTISH -whatever, etc.- BIRTH Certificate If they cannot provide the necessary justification at birth.

Mine was issued by Somerset House.

You do not receive a Passport proving that you are a “BRITISH CITIZEN” without providing the necessary justification.

Mine was issued by HM Passport Office who is the sole issuer of UK passports and responsible for civil registration services through the General Register Office…

I like others residing abroad have to be alert, in order to comply with the obligatory renewal deadlines.

WHY DO WE HAVE TO RENEW OUR PASSPORT EVERY TEN YEARS???

When registering to vote is every 15 years???

Why should bona fide Citizens have to register???

When bona fide Citizens have the necessity to require a Passport, they have to prove their nationality status every ten years, is that not enough to eliminate all necessity for registration???

Democracy, just like freedom, ends when you deny people the right to exercise their democratic & in this case, their natural birth right.

The caveats introduced in to the Legislation of United Kingdom regarding, & subsequently denying bona fide Citizens, the right to vote are obscene, anti democratic, despotic.

I’m told that "Hadaway & Shite" are very competent members of the legal profession, I’m sure that they, like many others of the bar will, are being consulted.

The people I mention, perhaps your mother, your father, sister, brother, son or daughter…

Did they, have they relinquish their nationality???

I havn’t & I never will.

Why do we not have the right to vote… I nearly mentioned reasons but then I would be introducing caveats.

We are were born, bona fide Citizens, & are bona fide Citizens!!!

When is a bona fide Citizen, not bona fide Citizen???

You, living in the UK & I, together with “Millions” of English, British, Citizens, residing outside of the UK…we were all upgraded from being “Subjects”, to Citizens.

Was that a result of UK or EU Legislation???

 

The Face of My Passport Is Embossed With:

EUROPEAN UNION

UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND

Dieu Et Mon Droit

PASSPORT

 

Now I ask of you,

Who are you, how dare you deny us our right to vote, our “Democratic Right” to choose…

I prefer to have laws built on reason to serve the people, rather than arbitrary morality of the government who passes them.

In this case, to regard it as being “very lucky to live in a democratic society” is an insult to democracy.

Only by denying Citizens, their supreme right, with his or her little pencil, or online click, the right to decide who governs the country, or participate in a referendum, is sheer diabolical, certainly not democratic.

Think about it!

BREXIT NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED!!!

P.S.

Congratulations Brexitiers,

how do you propose to reconcile with citizens who may have to leave their choice of abode, how do you think they feeling???

 

[Merlin]

I voted to leave. You new fookers on here don't know me, the old ones do! So they are now holding their breath as to what I have to say. It's been a while since I've been on here, to say I am not happy at some of these comments is an understatement. At the moment I am thinking and thinking hard! The wrath of Merlin is about to descend on you! Think very carefully about what you post, get your facts right and I may leave you alone, if not I will take you down! Be warned I take no prisoners and speak my mind, friend or foe! Cheers Merlin.

[webtrekker]

LoL! That's put us in our place! 

[threegee]

8 hours ago, bluebarby said:

I think this quote just about sums up the Brexit thinking:- 

"The thinking of the leave side is magical. It plucks at a dimly remembered but glorified past (that was never as good as nostalgia makes it) and offers a future that is imaginary."

Utter Brollox!  Leave is about the future, not the last 41 years of gravy-train politics for the elites and nothing but punishment for indigenous populations.  The sheer elitist arrogance that brands everyone who voted Leave as living in the past makes my blood boil.  People who voted out voted for the future: a future of liberty, and not one of Orwellian subservience.

AAMOF we need to do a lot more glorification of our past and not be constantly apologising for it like the Little Europeans would have us do.  But the past can only be regarded as a pointer to what we can achieve as a united country; no one takes it as a wish list for the future.

The real difference between those who voted to leave and those who didn't is that the latter have a bad case of (super)state dependency.  It's a disease which this country regularly catches, and when the symptoms become clear we always manage to shake off, and then prosper once again using our own God-given talents and enterprise.  Unfortunately each generation has to build up their own immunity to new strains of the disease, and it's never completely eradicated as isolated pockets always remain where people won't take the medication on religious grounds!

[threegee]

16 hours ago, mercuryg said:

While I respect Malcolm's views, I suggest he fails to take into account that businesses will still move abroad, with the aid of EU grants, when we are no longer part of the EU. Perhaps even more so. 

And... without the UK's billions where do you suppose Brussels is going to get this grant money from?  The EU as I see it from here is on the verge of economic collapse, and once it becomes clear to German taxpayers that they alone are funding the whole charade, Merkel will be out of office quicker than a David - I will remain PM following a Brexit vote to guide the country - Cameron resignation.

And... why would any sane UK business management take such a grant, only to be subject to EU bureaucracy (and the near infinite attached strings) when they are already part an enterprising economy with a world outlook, and one which had once again regained its freedom of action? i.e. outside the EU we can do whatever we need to do to retain our industry.  Interesting that Tata is now frantically rowing back from its formerly irrevocable decision that it was out of the UK steel business at any price - no?

[Symptoms]

Let's be clear about why the EU Referendum went the way it did ... deep down white folks just don't like black folks and other assorted foreigners. It was a national bun fight over immigration.  Simple as that! 

Just watch as  the denials and excuses flood in - stuff like, "I ain't racist but ...", or, "some of my best friends are black", or, "it's terrible that all those refugees kiddies are drowning but we don't have room for them", or, "I love curry", or, "they take all the back-breaking cabbage pickin' jobs me and my kids should be doing", or, .....

[Malcolm Robinson]

It went the way it did Sym coz more people voted one way than the other...........

[moe19]

13 hours ago, Spuggy said:

 

Only by denying Citizens, their supreme right, with his or her little pencil, or online click, the right to decide who governs the country, or participate in a referendum, is sheer diabolical, certainly not democratic.

Think about it!

BREXIT NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED!!!

P.S.

Congratulations Brexitiers,

how do you propose to reconcile with citizens who may have to leave their choice of abode, how do you think they feeling???

 

Well it has happened so get over it hinney.

Why should you have a vote for what happens in a Country you choose not to live in, you want to have ya cake and eat it son.

If you want to lie on ya back in the sun supping cheap beer and scoffing burgers that's up to you but ya don't deserve a shout in what happens in my back yard .

Stop squawking like you've been badly done by.its your choice to live somewhere else no one forced ya .

And as for leaving ya choice of abode, folk got a residence to live in other Countries long before we joined the loony EU so ya place in the sun will be safe

 

If ya as good wi ya gob as ya are wi ya fingas ya must be able ta talk a glass eye ta sleep  

Edited July 10, 2016 by moe19

[mercuryg]

3G, with all the best in respect, surely it's clear that any industrial entity in this non-EU country, doing business with an EU country, will still be subject to EU applied regulations? That stands to reason, just as they have to comply with regulations wherever they are trading. And then there's the subject of money; any company worth its weight, when offered grants, will take it, and happily comply with conditions. That, too, is only natural. The thing is, however, how many people voted leave on the basis of business, or economics? I agree with Sym; many - too many - voted on the immigration platform, and will now be disappointed that, in fact, little changes on that front. And then, of course, there's the question of why nobody wants anything to do with it any longer! From the PM, who rapidly washed his hands of it, to your mate Nigel, happy to invite you for a pint, but now wants 'his life back'! It's a complete and utter farce, and quite frankly, embarrassing. What year are they planning to implement it now, by the way? Last I heard was a 2019 start. 

[threegee]

7 hours ago, Symptoms said:

Let's be clear about why the EU Referendum went the way it did ... deep down white folks just don't like black folks and other assorted foreigners. It was a national bun fight over immigration.  Simple as that! 

Just watch as  the denials and excuses flood in - stuff like, "I ain't racist but ...", or, "some of my best friends are black", or, "it's terrible that all those refugees kiddies are drowning but we don't have room for them", or, "I love curry", or, "they take all the back-breaking cabbage pickin' jobs me and my kids should be doing", or, .....

No, it went the way it did because the majority of people in the UK don't go along with the idea that we should commit auto genocide in order to fulfil the dreams of an international elite who are untouched by the practical effects of unlimited mass economic migration.

Then, there are the Marxists who will read racism into everything, and attribute racist motives to what is in effect the very least racist nation in the world, and the one that fully understands that its magnificent past (which they also decry) is in no small part due to (controlled) immigration.

I wonder which group Sym falls in here?

4 hours ago, Malcolm Robinson said:

It went the way it did Sym coz more people voted one way than the other...........

...and because just as many (indeed more) voted "Remain" for entirely the "wrong" reasons as voted Leave for the "wrong" reasons.  But, the arrogant Remainians won't accept that truth either.  Their's is the moral high ground - and this is surely true because it says so in The Guardian and on the BBC.

[threegee]

48 minutes ago, mercuryg said:

3G, with all the best in respect, surely it's clear that any industrial entity in this non-EU country, doing business with an EU country, will still be subject to EU applied regulations? That stands to reason, just as they have to comply with regulations wherever they are trading. And then there's the subject of money; any company worth its weight, when offered grants, will take it, and happily comply with conditions. That, too, is only natural. The thing is, however, how many people voted leave on the basis of business, or economics? I agree with Sym; many - too many - voted on the immigration platform, and will now be disappointed that, in fact, little changes on that front. And then, of course, there's the question of why nobody wants anything to do with it any longer! From the PM, who rapidly washed his hands of it, to your mate Nigel, happy to invite you for a pint, but now wants 'his life back'! It's a complete and utter farce, and quite frankly, embarrassing. What year are they planning to implement it now, by the way? Last I heard was a 2019 start. 

I have news for you Merc... the EU is in a lot weaker economic position than the UK.  It does not have all the bargaining chips that the Europhiles would like to attribute to it.  The euro-politicos trot out the cant that you can't have all the advantages of "the single market" without all the political crap - well, that's only fair!

Well... life isn't fair, and when you build your castle on sand you shouldn't blame the tide for washing it away.  When reality strikes it will become evident that we can trade with the EU on more or less the same terms as we do now because it is to their overwhelming advantage that we do.  All that is needed is a face-saving exercise for politicos - business people will take care of the rest.  Of course this might be overtaken by events, and the whole thing might collapse a lot sooner than even people like me predict.  c.f. The Soviet Union.

Nothing is for nothing with the EU, and the whole outdated political project hinges on creating a dependency on the almighty EU political structure. Well, the EU's wings have already been clipped and Brussels doesn't have any more of other people's money to throw around to buy its influence.  There's already a £20BN black hole in the budget to be plugged, and you can imagine the outrage in the UK now when the extra demands roll in to help plug this deficit pre us giving formal notice that we are quitting..

The business people you talk about have their own accounts scrupulously audited, and are fully aware that the EU survives by deceit (and the fact that they haven't had their accounts audited for twenty odd years). It's a political not a business construct, and to attribute anything economically sound to it is to buy into the deceit.

[threegee]

1 hour ago, mercuryg said:

... From the PM, who rapidly washed his hands of it, to your mate Nigel, happy to invite you for a pint, but now wants 'his life back'!..

Like JCJ you don't seem to understand mission accomplished.  Juncker though doesn't understand that some people enter politics for reasons of belief and commitment, or that there could possibly be any motivation other than pursuing a work-avoiding highly lucrative career.  That really says it all about the EU.

[webtrekker]

The plain fact is, Leave or Remain, the EU is a dead duck. It's been on the verge of collapse long before Brexit and going by the horror stories now being revealed about Deutsche Bank and Credit Suisse, I doubt whether it (the EU) will survive after the end of this year.

The Europeans want to trade with us, so they will do it on our terms. Why should we be too bothered about trading in Europe? Do you know how big the rest of the world is?

There's a good Geordie saying for all those bashing their gums about staying in Europe and second referendums etc .................... 'If ya patta was watta, wi'd aal droond!'