Lord Ridley socks it to the HoL on our behalf!

[mercuryg]

9 hours ago, pilgrim said:

immigrants?? oh that would be them Vikings, and them normans, and afore that them roman chappies and even further back the Phoenicians that came over for the tin-- I really would like to see dna profile of the good folk of the shire

Funny you should say this! DNA examination of the oldest complete skeleton found in the UK - believed to be 10,000 years old - reveals that 'Cheddar Man' was black skinned. 

[pilgrim]

maybe we should consider what we are going to do with all the folk we exported over many hundreds of years? Vast numbers of Welsh in Patagonia. New Zealand and anywhere there were mines or sheep. not forgetting the Irish contingent all over the world  in the aftermath of the potato blight - Bernardo O'Higgins is certainly not a Chilean name! plus those from almost every other region of Britain who left for a better life or because of land enclosures etc. maybe we should tell them all to come 'home' to replace those residents we don't like the look of/colour of/opinions of/religion.

Afro Caribbean's were actively encouraged to come to Britain in the late 40' and 50''s

and of course anyone who is retired and living in Spain or France etc..

it is a bit of a farce when you think that these sceptred isles were populated by those foreigners when the land bridge still existed and before we had a channel. and during the glacial periods there was no one here anyway - so we are all foreigners

I seem to think that there are many places that British immigrants are not particularly welcome or wanted.

Edited February 7, 2018 by pilgrim
slight ammendment

[threegee]

4 hours ago, Steve Turnbull said:

And you somehow draw a link between this and ‘sleeper cells’? I had you down as intelligent but with radical views. I’m now wondering whether you’re just another who believes what the Daily Mail tells them. I’m not the one with the illusions.

The "somehow" is evident if you read the earlier posts.  There are two dimensions to this unprecedented mass immigration and the left loves to muddy the waters by conflating them.  Though, at the end of the day, the both represent an existential threat to our country and to Europe as a whole.

My views ar anything but radical, though representing moderate views like mine as radical and extremist is the way the left furthers its own brand of extremism.  People aren't quite as stupid as they think, though decades of infiltration into the media and education system is going to be a hard one to tackle.

[mercuryg]

1 minute ago, threegee said:

 

My views ar anything but radical, 

Oh, they are. Talk to a cross section of people, ordinary, everyday people (as I do often!) and I guarantee your views are radical. Few people believe that in a few years there are going to be Islamic sleeper cells wreaking havoc, for example, because there are not. Most people accept that Muslims are just people, who worship a religion that differs from that followed by a small minority of people in the UK. Or, seriously, do you think your views on this are actually mainstream? I suggest you get out more. Perhaps cycle 35km the other way next time, and talk to more than a couple of people? Maybe choose some of different persuasions? It might help you understand things a little better, as people are more of a representation of reality than graphs and statistics. 

[threegee]

2 hours ago, pilgrim said:

maybe we should consider what we are going to do with all the folk we exported over many hundreds of years?

If you are referring to slavery, we pioneered the abolition of that - a practice which had gone on for thousands of years before we brought the forces off Empire to bear on it.   But you lefties only wish to highlight the bad of Empire (and remove it from historical context) and never the overwhelming good.

Your historical arguments have just been blown out of the water, and you still refuse to address the here and now!  I ask you once more: how many immigrants are enough?

[threegee]

1 minute ago, mercuryg said:

Oh, they are. Talk to a cross section of people, ordinary, everyday people (as I do often!) and I guarantee your views are radical. Few people believe that in a few years there are going to be Islamic sleeper cells wreaking havoc, for example, because there are not. Most people accept that Muslims are just people, who worship a religion that differs from that followed by a small minority of people in the UK. Or, seriously, do you think your views on this are actually mainstream? I suggest you get out more. Perhaps cycle 35km the other way next time, and talk to more than a couple of people? Maybe choose some of different persuasions? It might help you understand things a little better, as people are more of a representation of reality than graphs and statistics. 

Always amusing how leftie keyboard warriors urge people who are in touch with the real world to get out into it.

This is what "ordinary people" here think: Social bomb ready to explode’ Berlusconi pledges to deport 600,000 illegal immigrants

And... before you tell us it's the right wing extremist Daily Express, this is the sanitised version of what you'll find in the Italian press!  Italy is far from alone, and even the brain dead conformist Germans have had enough.

Regarding the "some of different persuasions": left wing Five Star is promising more or less the same, so it's now beyond simple left right politics here.

[mercuryg]

Once again (you must remember I've mentioned it before) who said I'm a 'leftie'? Furthermore, a bit rich calling me a 'keyboard warrior'; your posts on here are far more numerous than mine. If attaching misguided labels to me in an attempt to discredit is the best you can do, you haven't got much to go on, have you? Also, I see nothing in that article that indicates that is how 'ordinary people' are thinking; it's all about a former politician who is banned from office, and a bloke with a penchant for Nazi memorabilia. 3/10. Must try harder. You're not coming across at all well here if that's your idea of the average bloke on the street, even in Italy!

[threegee]

3 minutes ago, mercuryg said:

Once again (you must remember I've mentioned it before) who said I'm a 'leftie'? Furthermore, a bit rich calling me a 'keyboard warrior'; your posts on here are far more numerous than mine. If attaching misguided labels to me in an attempt to discredit is the best you can do, you haven't got much to go on, have you? Also, I see nothing in that article that indicates that is how 'ordinary people' are thinking; it's all about a former politician who is banned from office, and a bloke with a penchant for Nazi memorabilia. 3/10. Must try harder. You're not coming across at all well here if that's your idea of the average bloke on the street, even in Italy!

Excuse me but you've told us all quite clearly in the past that you hold left wing views, and are proud of this!

Good use of the old Ad Hominem there Merc!  Berlusconi is reflecting the views of most people - it's how he regularly gets elected.  The bent EU compliant judiciary have tried to disqualify him, but he keeps on coming back as he represents the views of the majority in a large part of the country.  Upstart and left wing Five Star will get most of the votes in the South, and they need to adopt exactly the same tone to get a majority.  There are right wing extremist parties but they won't get near government.

You are getting very agitated and irrational as the world increasing fails to conform with your ideas of how things must be.  I like the "even in Italy!"    Try Israel: Israel to Deport 40,000 Illegal Immigrants

 

[mercuryg]

2 minutes ago, threegee said:

Excuse me but you've told us all quite clearly in the past that you hold left wing views, and are proud of this!

Oh, I do hold left wing views, and am proud of them. I also hold right wing views, and others. I'm far from a 'leftie' as you are using the term, and you're well aware of that as we've had this discussion before. I stand firm on the keyboard warrior label; that's most certainly you, not me (once again, I talk to people, you clearly don't).

Quote

Good use of the old Ad Hominem there Merc!  Berlusconi is reflecting the views of most people - it's how he regularly gets elected.  The bent EU compliant judiciary have tried to disqualify him, but he keeps on coming back as he represents the views of the majority in a large part of the country.  Upstart and left wing Five Star will get most of the votes in the South, and they need to adopt exactly the same tone to get a majority.  There are right wing extremist parties but they won't get near government.

You are getting very agitated and irrational as the world increasing fails to conform with your ideas of how things must be.  I like the "even in Italy!"    Try Israel: Israel to Deport 40,000 Illegal Immigrants

 

Berlusconi is reflecting the views of most people, yet his group of collective parties isn't likely to get a majority according to that article?

I'm not agitated; I'm enjoying it. I have a quiet day at work. By the way, here's a tip for recognising when someone is really struggling to keep their place in a discussion: they start calling people names like 'leftie' and so on, as you have done! It's a dead giveaway! It's the equivalent of throwing ones toys out of the pram. That's what getting agitated looks like!

[mercuryg]

Off to watch come aeroplanes; if anybody else wants to comment it might add to the discussion. See you later.

[threegee]

13 minutes ago, mercuryg said:

Berlusconi is reflecting the views of most people, yet his group of collective parties isn't likely to get a majority according to that article?

I'm not agitated; I'm enjoying it. I have a quiet day at work. By the way, here's a tip for recognising when someone is really struggling to keep their place in a discussion: they start calling people names like 'leftie' and so on, as you have done! It's a dead giveaway! It's the equivalent of throwing ones toys out of the pram. That's what getting agitated looks like!

This isn't a real country by Anglo Saxon standards, and is still very regionalised.  It's what made it a push over for the EU.  Berlusconi has his areas of support in the center of politics. The Northern League are far to the right of him and they have their geographic areas.  You would certainly call the Northern League right wing extremists.  My point is that all major parties are now advocating policies which you would label extremist.

I think your supposed "right wing" views are international capitalist, and you'd have been a Tony Blair supporter in the times before he was totally discredited in the eyes of practically all UK voters.  Tell me this isn't true?  I'd be interested to hear your take on Corbyn when you've a moment.

[Steve Turnbull]

Interesting. Blair? Good god, no! Corbyn? I can’t make my mind up. I’m more inclined towards local politics than national these days, as I found I could make a difference. 

[Vic Patterson]

1 hour ago, mercuryg said:

Off to watch come aeroplanes; if anybody else wants to comment it might add to the discussion. See you later.

What aeroplanes are you going to watch? anything special?

[Steve Turnbull]

I live five minutes from RAF Coningsby. Typhoons based there, f15s and a couple of Hawks popped by to say Hello, and the Battle of Britain Flight Dakota is up and about. All good fun!

[pilgrim]

3 hours ago, threegee said:

If you are referring to slavery, we pioneered the abolition of that - a practice which had gone on for thousands of years before we brought the forces off Empire to bear on it.   But you lefties only wish to highlight the bad of Empire (and remove it from historical context) and never the overwhelming good.

Your historical arguments have just been blown out of the water, and you still refuse to address the here and now!  I ask you once more: how many immigrants are enough?

slavery??? I think I made it quite clear that I was talking about UK citizens - Irish scots welsh and English - that's the 'native ones' leaving the uk and departing off to sunnier climes for the last several centuries.

nice to mention Italy - a fine example of a settled political climate - until recent times it had a new government almost every year since the war. (and I do know about Italy since my mother spent 6 months of the year there for 20 yrs and I was a regular visitor and always went @native' not as a tourist)

 

had to laugh though -- I have never been referred to as a leftie before......................and I have been called a lot of things 

[Canny lass]

19 hours ago, threegee said:

No CL, I'm not an immigrant!  I'm British, and my documents clearly say "resident"

Not an immigrant! At risk of sounding like Widow Twankey, “Oh yes you are”, 3g! You’ve just perfectly described your status as ‘immigrant’. You meet all the criteria for being an immigrant; here I’m assuming that you are a “person” and not a cabbage or a bot.

Let’s look at the definition again.

 an immigrant is “a person who has come to live permanently in a foreign country” (my underlining).

You say:

1. “I am British”. That leads me to believe that you are a person for, as we all know, cabbages and bots have no nationality.

2.  You yourself, despite the fact that the info under your avatar gives your location as “Bedlington, Northumberland”, make no secret of the fact that you have resided in Italy for at least 10 years. I don’t think there can be any doubt that you live permanently in Italy. You wouldn’t need a residence permit otherwise.

3.    Italy, if my memory serves me correct, is not a part of Britain. It’s what we Brits, and many other nationalities, call a foreign country.

4.  “my documents clearly say resident” (FYI that’s a person  “who lives or has a home in a place, not a visitor” (OALD). Residential permits are not handed out on the beach in Italy, or anywhere else for that matter. If you are a resident in Italy then you have physically applied for and received a residence permit in accordance with the …. wait for it ….. European Union’s IMMIGRATION rules. You can read about them here:

http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/who-does-what/more-information/explaining-the-rules-why-are-there-eu-rules-and-national-rules_en

or here:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-italy

So,tell me 3g, which part of the dictionary definition “an immigrant is a person who has come to live permanently in a foreign country” (OALD) do you not understand?

Edited February 7, 2018 by Canny lass

[Canny lass]

6 hours ago, pilgrim said:

maybe we should consider what we are going to do with all the folk we exported over many hundreds of years?

There's a great discussion in linguistic circles at the minute as to whether or not slaves can be classed as immigrants. It's all because of the wording in the definition. There's no doubt that they were persons - we've seen photos. There's no doubt that they are in a foreign country - they travelled there by boat, well most of them did, and the local natives look quite exotic by comparison. There isn't either any doubt that they lived permamently in their new land - the chains around their legs prevented them from walking, or swimming, home again. It's the little word 'come' that's causing the problem. Did they come to a new land or were they taken to a new land? 

[pilgrim]

I was mainly referring to the folk that exported themselves but I see this thread has caused some angst and some perhaps deep or not so deep thought in some cases... I am now wondering if there could be a grant available from county hall for a supply of tissues to wipe the froth from the corners of the mouth ..... 

runs and hides

oh and by the way I am white, educated and live on independent means --I may have to go out and dispose of myself as I do not have any problems with all them foreigners being over here as part of an integrated slice of humanity and obviously don't fit in with what is (news to me ) the majority view (in most cases - although that is qualified as ex wife sits on immigration tribunals 3 days a week and is not best pleased wi the system) 

should really add that I don't have a clue about my ancestors apart from them originating from a very minor baronetcy in Ireland than emigrating to Scotland and taking up residence in queen street in Edinburgh then moving south..so I suppose I am a foreigner and 'should bugger orf back home' ???

in the meantime I will continue to chat on here using the language of my birthplace which is an amalgam of soooooo many languages from immigrants and the empire and owes a huge amount to 'them foreigners' as the actual old English - if there ever was such a thing is now non existent 

[Canny lass]

6 hours ago, pilgrim said:

I seem to think that there are many places that British immigrants are not particularly welcome or wanted.

It's quietened down now a bit but at the time of the Brexit referendum El País reported almost daily on the great joy spreading among Spaniards as the prospect of getting rid of  "los guetos ingleses" - the English ghettos - became a possibility.

[Canny lass]

11 minutes ago, pilgrim said:

I was mainly referring to the folk that exported themselves

Ah, you meant people like me and 3g! Got it now!

[pilgrim]

hush yo mouf canny lass and don't mention Gibraltar 

[Canny lass]

12 minutes ago, pilgrim said:

I am now wondering if there could be a grant available from county hall

Malcolm Robinson's the man for that!

[pilgrim]

2 minutes ago, Canny lass said:

Ah, you meant people like me and 3g! Got it now!

the very ones -- you are obviously the types that are causing all the problems!!!!

however I have now swabbed my fevered brow and opened a bottle of pinot grigio --er foreign muck from Italy - whilst I sort out some bits and pieces for the daughter to visit Dubrovnik in the summer oh and there is todays copy of private eye to peruse just so my blood pressure can go up a Cpl of more notches..

Edited February 7, 2018 by pilgrim

[Canny lass]

16 minutes ago, pilgrim said:

I may have to go out and dispose of myself

Why have a dog and bark yourself? The sleeping Jihadists will take care of that for you. 3g said so, so it must be right!

Edited February 7, 2018 by Canny lass

[pilgrim]

I have a dog and it barks itself -- even when I don't want it to - i'm thinking there are too many mad dogs in the world already. Them jihadists are safe when asleep so tread lightly and don't wake them. oh and 13 yrs wi a certain regiment and then many yrs doing other things might help with my survival. funny how I have not felt threatened even after all the dire warnings on here and in the populist press.

I recall a chant of 'up the hammas' but I think that was possibly one of them football things??