Burial of Annie Margaret Nichol January 1892 at Cambois

[Colin Nichol]

I have today discovered that my paternal grandparents (James Nichol and Mary Alice Nichol, nee Snowdon) had their first child (Annie Margaret) on 31st May 1891. Sadly, she did not survive. She was buried in Cambois Cemetery, January 1892. I am 76 now and I cannot get my head around the fact that I didn't know anything about this.

I don't know where Cambois Cemetery was in 1892, nor if she even had a headstone.

We moved to West Sussex in 1987 (worst thing we ever did), so I can't do any local research. Can anyone please fill in any blanks for me?

[Canny lass]

Hi @Colin Nichol Welcome to the forum. The parish of Cambois was originally part of St Cuthbert's, Bedlington, it was a small parish served by the vicar of Sleekburn and a non-stipendiary priest. The Cambois church, St Andrews, is a small church built in 1860. It was formerly the mission church of St Peter's Church, West Sleekburn until it closed in the 1990s.

As a mission church it did not have a graveyard so burials took place at St Peter's, West Sleekburn.

Cambois, St Peter: Records of baptisms 1865-1936, marriages 1866-1998 and burials 1874-1966 are available at Northumberland Archives Service.

P.S.Did you know that James and Mary Alice lost a second child within the first 10 years of their marriage?

Edited October 8 by Canny lass

[Colin Nichol]

Thank you very much, Canny Lass for this information. I appreciate the time you have spent, in answering my plea for help.

So, I assume that Annie Margaret is buried in the cemetery of St Peter's Church at West Sleekburn. 

I have had a look at the web site of Northumberland Archives at Woodhorn but, to be honest, I am not sure how to navigate it. It doesn't seem to accept a person's name as a search criterion. As I said earlier, we live in Sussex, so I can't get to Woodhorn in person.

I am intrigued by the mention of another child's death. I knew nothing about this. Can I be cheeky and ask if you have any information, regarding this?

Thank you again.

Colin

[Canny lass]

Hi again @Colin Nichol. The 1911 census form filled in by James himself gives the information related to the length of the marriage and the number of children living and dead.

I also would assume that St Peters is the burial place of Annie Margaret. However, money was tight in those days so she may be buried in another person's grave as she was so young. It was common practice for an infant to be placed inside the coffin of the next adult to be buried.

Edited October 9 by Canny lass

[Colin Nichol]

I apologise for my late reply. I got volunteered to tile our daughter-in-law's kitchen, which took a little while. Once again, I am extremely grateful for the trouble you went to and the information you have provided.

Thank you.

[Canny lass]

Pleased to have been of help. I think I may have found the other child who died between 1901 and 1911. I believe that James and Mary Alice had another daughter born in the first quarter of 1897. That would fit in nicely with the gap between the births of George and James. There are no other gaps which would allow for a pregnancy between 1901 and 1911.

The firstborn daughter, Annie Margaret Nichol born 1891, was given her maternal grandmother’s name and her birth was registered as Annie Margaret. What I believe to be the second daughter, born 1897, was also given her maternal grandmother’s name but without the diminutive form. Her birth was registered as Ann Margaret Nichol. She died the following year and her death was registered in March 1898 but then using the name Annie Margaret Nichol.  She was also buried in Cambois.

That parents ‘recycled’ names isn’t uncommon, especially if it was the name of a grandparent or parent. I myself am a perfect example. My mother gave birth to a daughter in 1931 and gave that daughter her maternal grandmother’s name – Annie. The child, Annie, lived only a few months. I was born in 1947 and was also given my maternal grandmother’s name though without the diminutive form – Ann.

Like you, I never knew anything about Annie (or another brother dead before my birth) until I was in my 70s. They were never mentioned. The discovery of a sister named Annie explained something that had puzzled me for years. My mother always called me Ann. Everybody else called me Annie. My mother had one Annie and one Ann and for a mother the one could never replace the other.

If you would like the birth, death and burial indexes for Ann Margaret born 1897 let me know and I’ll post them to your in-box (the envelope in the top tight-hand corner of the screen).

[Colin Nichol]

Ann,

        Yes, please. That would be amazing and thank you again for all of your help.

Regards.

Colin

[loopylou]

Hi, 

I had a look through the Cambois burials on FreeREG and was wondering if James and Mary Alice might’ve sadly lost another child?

Their youngest William doesn’t appear in the 1921 census with them, but there is this burial.

William Nichol buried 25 January 1914, aged 5, residence Wansbeck Terrace Sleekburn.

Lou

Edited Monday at 18:20 by loopylou

[Colin Nichol]

Ann,

        Yes, please. That would be amazing and thank you again for all of your help.

Regards.

Colin

[Colin Nichol]

loopylou,

Thank you for your message. The most recent information I have for the family is the 1911 Census, when they were living at 39 North Row, West Sleekburn. William was 2 years old. I can't remember anyone mentioning an Uncle William Will, Bill or Billy, so I suspect that he didn't survive.

[Colin Nichol]

loopyloo,

I have revisited my family history documents and found out that William did die of tuberculosis on 23rd November 1914 in Wanstead Cottage Hospital.

 

[Colin Nichol]

Just now, Colin Nichol said:

loopyloo,

I have revisited my family history documents and found out that William did die of tuberculosis on 23rd November 1914 in Wansbeck Cottage Hospital.

 

 

[loopylou]

@Colin Nichol

How sad. I should correct that William was buried 25 Oct 1914, not January. Don’t know where I got that month from!

Found his obituary in Newcastle Evening Chronicle, 24 Oct 1914, page 2.

NICHOL - At Wansbeck Cottage, Stakeford, 23inst, aged 5 years and 19 months, William, the beloved son of James and Alice Nichol. Interment at Cambois Churchyard on Sunday at 3.30pm. Friends please accept this, the only intimation.

Morpeth Herald, March 5 1898 page 8: At West Sleekburn on 28th ult., Ann Margaret, daughter of Mr. James Nichol.

Morpeth Herald, 23 January 1893, page 8: At Stakeford, 16th inst., aged 7 months, Annie Margaret, daughter of Mr. James Nichol.

 

 

Edited Monday at 22:53 by loopylou

[Colin Nichol]

Wow! Thank you for this information. I was totally unaware of these obituaries. I am very grateful.

Regards.

Colin

[Canny lass]

12 hours ago, loopylou said:

Morpeth Herald, 23 January 1893, page 8: At Stakeford, 16th inst., aged 7 months, Annie Margaret, daughter of Mr. James Nichol.

Hi @loopylou, could you check the year of that obituary for me (my BNA is down for maintainence at the minute). The death record that I found was 1892. If it was 1893 then it throws my research of balance a bit. Thanks in advance.

[Canny lass]

Hi @Colin Nichol. In reply to your message: when searching for a child death without knowing the name it's always worth looking up the child's grandparents. The Victorians were usually quite consistent in naming their offspring:

1st son named after his maternal grandfather

1st daughter named after her paternal grandmother

2nd son named after his paternal grandfather

2nd daughter named after her maternal grandmother

Thereafter came parents names and important relatives. Towards the end of the Victorian era the order of naming wasn't any longer so strictly followed but the practice of using the names of just those relatives lived on into the early 20th century.

Ann Margaret seems to have been a name worth preserving among the Snowdons. James and Mary Alice's first child, Annie Margaret was given her maternal grandmother's name. That maternal grandmother had also given her first daughter that name. (that child also died before the age of 15). The name was then 'vacant' for future children therefore I searched for it in the birth index during the years between the births of George and James where the time-span allowed for a pregnancy. Of course, you would need to obtain a birth certificate to verify that James and Mary Alice are the parents but I think the chances are good.

Hope this explains the need for the census documents.

[loopylou]

1 hour ago, Canny lass said:

Hi @loopylou, could you check the year of that obituary for me (my BNA is down for maintainence at the minute). The death record that I found was 1892. If it was 1893 then it throws my research of balance a bit. Thanks in advance.

@Canny lass Must be one of those days for me, full of typos. It is 1892, just had a double check.

[Colin Nichol]

The mother of Mary Alice Nichol (nee Snowdon) was Alice Snowdon, who was also Scottish.

[Canny lass]

Back to the drawing board then!!

[Colin Nichol]

This conversation has prompted me to revisit the information I have for Mary Alice Snowdon. On one of the Census records I have, she showed her place of birth as Northumberland. On another, it was Scotland. On another, it was Plashetts, Northumberland, which is the village that lies under Kielder reservoir.

For some reason, years ago, I accepted Scotland as being correct. I may have been wrong to do so. I have searched on familysearch.org and there is a Mary Alice Snowdon, born in 1869. Her birthplace is shown as Bellingham, which is close to Plashetts.

Have I been incorrect for all these years? Why did I accept Scotland as being correct?

Colin

[Canny lass]

@Colin Nichol

Make yourself a cuppa. This may be long!

I think, Colin, that you probably made ‘a couple’ of mistakes. Haven’t we all!

When we research our family history, we usually start with those nearest in line and work backwards in time: parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc. At that stage, it’s fair to assume that we are beginners in the field of genealogy.  Some of the most common mistakes I’ve come across in my 15 years of researching almost every week are the following:

1     Taking for granted that other people’s trees are correct. We look at other people’s family trees and take for granted that they are correct. OFTEN THEY ARE NOT!! Believe me, I’ve been their myself. Always check the information before adding it to your own family tree. By doing this check you will save yourself hours of work later in your research AND you will save other beginners from making mistakes when they look at your tree.

    2 Confusing ‘date of birth’ with ‘date of registration of a birth’. A correct date of birth is only found on a birth certificate. The birth index gives the date on which the birth was registered. This can occur several months after a birth for several reasons. This is especially confusing when a birth occurs at the end of one year and is registered at the beginning of the following year. If you want to be certain, obtain a birth certificate copy.

3     Confusing the place of birth with the place of registration. An accurate place of birth is only found on a birth certificate. The birth index gives only the place of registration. Since 1834 England and Wales share a joint birth, marriage, death (and census register). England has 60 County Registration Districts, Wales has 21. (The same registration districts are used to compile the census since 1851) Each County Registration District covers several civil registration districts so called ‘sub-districts’. Some small changes have occurred over the years as parish and county boundaries have changed.

Particularly interesting for us Bedlingtonians is the Northumberland County Registration District – and here’s something that may be of interest to you Colin – the ancient county of Northumberland 1834 – 1889 included the town of Berwick on Tweed. Registration districts could even cross boundaries. The Northumberland district has 18 sub-registration districts. One of these which might interest you, Colin, is the sub-district of ‘Bellingham’. You mentioned this a place of birth for Mary Alice but it is (unless you’ve seen a birth certificate) the name of the registration district in which her birth was registered.

Each sub-registration district was made up of a number of parishes (which is why the parish name appears at the top of census records). Again, maybe of interest to you, the registration district of Bellingham had 38 parishes one of which was ‘Plashetts and Tynehead’. The registration district of Bellingham was abolished in 1936 and most sub-districts were then incorporated into the Northumberland West Registration District.

4     Getting hung up on names. Names can vary for one and the same person, from census to census. Parents filling in the census forms, more often than not, write the name they use for the child at home (often a diminutive or just one of their two registered forenames). The only accurate name of a child (or wife) is the name that appears in the birth register or birth certificate. So, Winifred Ellen Smith may be written as: Winifred Ellen, Winifred, Ellen, Winnie Ellen, just plain old Winnie or even Nelly. (Those examples all relate to a member of my family).

And finally, you’ll be pleased to hear, we should always remember that the enumerator who conducted the local census inquiry was, like the rest of us, only human. He could – and did – make mistakes when transcribing the content of your relatives (often almost illegible) form to his book, the one that is available to us.
 

Do you recognise yourself in any of those beginner’s errors, Colin? Have another look at all the documents I messaged to you. Pay particular attention to children’s names, order of birth, ages and place of birth (not always exactly the same but most within the same registration district (Falstone – 1881 census -  is just 4 miles south east of Plashetts). The one exception is ‘Scotland’. That could be explained by an enumerator’s error/ignorance or the fact that the exact location of the England/Scotland border was long a subject of dispute. Just a thought!

I personally don’t think that Mary Alice Snowdon was born in Canonbie Scotland. That person is named only Mary in the birth index. She, according to the Scottish Births and Baptisms records, was born 01 Aug 1869.

You have confirmed to me that I have located the correct Mary Alice Snowdon (married name Nichol) in the 1911 census where she gives her age as 42 years. In the 1921 census people were required to give their age in years and months which makes it easier to calculate a birthday.

The 1921 census took place 19/20^th June. Looking at Mary Alice’s entry, her age is given as 52 years and 6 months. From that, I calculate that she was born in December 1868. Her birth wasn’t registered until a couple of weeks later when 1869 had already been ushered in.

Sorry, it's a lot to take in, I know. Let me know how you get on.

Edited 2 hours ago by Canny lass

[Colin Nichol]

22 minutes ago, Canny lass said:

@Colin Nichol

Make yourself a cuppa. This may be long!

I think, Colin, that you probably made ‘a couple’ of mistakes. Haven’t we all!

When we research our family history, we usually start with those nearest in line and work backwards in time: parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc. At that stage, it’s fair to assume that we are beginners in the field of genealogy.  Some of the most common mistakes I’ve come across in my 15 years of researching almost every week are the following:

1     Taking for granted that other people’s trees are correct. We look at other people’s family trees and take for granted that they are correct. OFTEN THEY ARE NOT!! Believe me, I’ve been their myself. Always check the information before adding it to your own family tree. By doing this check you will save yourself hours of work later in your research AND you will save other beginners from making mistakes when they look at your tree.

    2 Confusing ‘date of birth’ with ‘date of registration of a birth’. A correct date of birth is only found on a birth certificate. The birth index gives the date on which the birth was registered. This can occur several months after a birth for several reasons. This is especially confusing when a birth occurs at the end of one year and is registered at the beginning of the following year. If you want to be certain, obtain a birth certificate copy.

3     Confusing the place of birth with the place of registration. An accurate place of birth is only found on a birth certificate. The birth index gives only the place of registration. Since 1834 England and Wales share a joint birth, marriage, death (and census register). England has 60 County Registration Districts, Wales has 21. (The same registration districts are used to compile the census since 1851) Each County Registration District covers several civil registration districts so called ‘sub-districts’. Some small changes have occurred over the years as parish and county boundaries have changed.

Particularly interesting for us Bedlingtonians is the Northumberland County Registration District – and here’s something that may be of interest to you Colin – the ancient county of Northumberland 1834 – 1889 included the town of Berwick on Tweed. Registration districts could even cross boundaries. The Northumberland district has 18 sub-registration districts. One of these which might interest you, Colin, is the sub-district of ‘Bellingham’. You mentioned this a place of birth for Mary Alice but it is (unless you’ve seen a birth certificate) the name of the registration district in which her birth was registered.

Each sub-registration district was made up of a number of parishes (which is why the parish name appears at the top of census records). Again, maybe of interest to you, the registration district of Bellingham had 38 parishes one of which was ‘Plashetts and Tynehead’. The registration district of Bellingham was abolished in 1936 and most sub-districts were then incorporated into the Northumberland West Registration District.

4     Getting hung up on names. Names can vary for one and the same person, from census to census. Parents filling in the census forms, more often than not, write the name they use for the child at home (often a diminutive or just one of their two registered forenames). The only accurate name of a child (or wife) is the name that appears in the birth register or birth certificate. So, Winifred Ellen Smith may be written as: Winifred Ellen, Winifred, Ellen, Winnie Ellen, just plain old Winnie or even Nelly. (Those examples all relate to a member of my family).

And finally, you’ll be pleased to hear, we should always remember that the enumerator who conducted the local census inquiry was, like the rest of us, only human. He could – and did – make mistakes when transcribing the content of your relatives (often almost illegible) form to his book, the one that is available to us.
 

Do you recognise yourself in any of those beginner’s errors, Colin? Have another look at all the documents I messaged to you. Pay particular attention to children’s names, order of birth, ages and place of birth (not always exactly the same but most within the same registration district (Falstone – 1881 census -  is just 4 miles south east of Plashetts). The one exception is ‘Scotland’. That could be explained by an enumerator’s error/ignorance or the fact that the exact location of the England/Scotland border was long a subject of dispute. Just a thought!

I personally don’t think that Mary Alice Snowdon was born in Canonbie Scotland. That person is named only Mary in the birth index. She, according to the Scottish Births and Baptisms records, was born 01 Aug 1869.

You have confirmed to me that I have located the correct Mary Alice Snowdon (married name Nichol) in the 1911 census where she gives her age as 42 years. In the 1921 census people were required to give their age in years and months which makes it easier to calculate a birthday.

The 1921 census took place 19/20^th June. Looking at Mary Alice’s entry, her age is given as 52 years and 6 months. From that, I calculate that she was born in December 1868. Her birth wasn’t registered until a couple of weeks later when 1869 had already been ushered in.

Sorry, it's a lot to take in, I know. Let me know how you get on.

Phew! That must have taken ages to compose. I am very grateful for the time you have given to this and all of your help.

I absolutely accept that, as well as great success, I have made lots of mistakes, while researching my family history.

I also believe that Mary Alice Snowdon was not born in Scotland. The baby registered in 1869 at Bellingham is much more likely to be my paternal grandmother.

Regards.

Colin