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my Father was coal minor at isabella pit Jonty jobson as kids the joppa's would steak in and nick the pit props and cut them up for firewood we were chased by the caretaker one night as it happens we got a good hiding good old days the gala every year my first taste of caramac 1950's

Hi Canny Lass,we are now talking about conditions under the National Coal Board which was invested [is that the right word?!]..in 1947,in which Widows were allowed to live in their family home.Remember my Mother was evicted by the coal owners thugs ["Bailiffs"...THUGS]...BECAUSE MY fATHER WAS IN hOSPITAL DYING..AND NOT WORKING DOWN THE PIT WHERE THE OWNERS THOUGHT HE SHOULD BE..THEY HAD NO CONSCIENCE..NO CONCERN ABOUT THE WORKERS AT ALL..BUT IF A PONY WAS INJURED OR KILLED..THERE WAS AN INQUIREY AND THE PONY HANDLER WOULD LOSE HIS JOB AND POOSSIBLY BE JAILED ON TRUMPED UP NEGLIGENCE CHARGES....sorry about caps lock being on..glaucoma now..difficult trying to type and watch the screen..didn't realise it was on!!..I live at West Terrace in Stakeford for thirty years..the first 14 yrs were under NCB ownership,and I paid rent weekly from my pay.Down the street there were several Miner's Widows living with families in those houses.But NOT in the days before 1947!!...The pony's were "hung" onto the tubs or trams with either tracing chains from their collar each side and onto the tub handles,or Limbers..["Limma's"]..Shafts either side attached to a steel yoke and coupled to the tub middle "CockHole"..[I explained a few years ago about that term!...not indecent!!"]..with a Sheckle and Sheckle pin.So they PULLED the tubs along behind them.

Hi Folks!.Canny Lass,ye knaa me,not a nitpicker,only for correctness,for the education of the uneducated!!...but miner's coaal was never FREE!!..NOR WERE THE "FREE" houses they lived in!!..They were part of a miner's wage in lieu..and speaking personally,Linton Colliery gave the Miners coal which otherwise would be tipped on the pit heap..more stone bands than coal,also full of "Brass"[!!]..Iron Pyrites..which used to spit out onto the clippy mat and us if we sat too close!!..So!!Putters!!..the pic in my gallery on here,of my Father aged 14 yrs old,with his pony,in 1929,is when he was coal putting to his Marra,the older fella who was a Hewer.My Father putted the tubs out to a landing,where the other putters did the same thing..when there was a set of six tubs or more..the Drivers used to drive the set of tubs to the shaft bottom to be taken to bank.Every pit had it's own terms,but putters was generally the term used either for hand putting,or Pony putting.Hope that clarifies the subject.Never heard the term Cartman anywhere in any of the pits I worked at..[5 in total].

All true CL,and Vic!..not so long ago,my GrandMother was just one of a set of children aged 14 yrs old working at Ashington colliery with the ShaftSinkers when they sunk the later shafts..the Men did the hard work drilling and firing the bottom up but the lassies,because they were small and took no room up in the confined space,were employed to fill the basket with the stones that were fired up.That would be in the very early 1900's..Ashington was five pits in one with five shafts ...5000 miners..and the biggest mining complex in the world in those days.

My great grandfather worked underground 1861 when he was 9 years old at the Bella pit. his mom would carry him home.

Thanks HPW! I read a wonderful book some years ago called the The White Slaves of Britain which described vividly the social conditions of 19th century Britain. Some of these "white slaves" were women and children working in Britain's coal mines. The woman would be shackled to a 'cart' (sometimes called a corv) in exactly the way you describe. with a chain from a belt around her waist. She was then called a 'hurrier'. It's the one and only time I've ever seen that word and I've never been able to find its origins. With no child-minding facilities, and needing money, she would have her children, as young as 4 years old, employed in the mine as well - the cheapest of labour. They would push the cart from behind to assist her and they were called 'thrusters' or 'putters'. These people worked in tunnels only 60 cm high. Thank heavens as things got better the tunnels were high enough to stand up in and eventually enough to get a small horse into.

I started by looking for marriages between a male Ivison and a female Warnes and followed up by by looking for an Ivison in passenger lists for Australia 1927. I had a stroke of luck when Robert, Bertha and your mother Margaret Audrey turned up. Even better was that they were accompanied by George Alfred Warnes, his wife and son! I worked backwards from him - if that makes any sense! I've started sending you some files. Hope you enjoy their content.

Thank you, at least I will know where it was situated when I next visit.

Hi @Miner Granddaughter and welcome to the forum. Bridge Inn, East End, Bedlington has nothing to do with Hartford Bridge Inn. Bridge Inn, East End was located on the main street (Front Street) in Bedlington’s East End on the corner of Walker Terrace. The following map, dated 1859, is not particularly clear but Bridge Inn is in fact named. It can be seen somewhat better, though not named, on the map from 1860. The best map I can find is 1897 which shows the Bridge Inn (marked red) and the Wheatsheaf, its close neighbour, marked blue, on the corner of Chapel Row. In the extract from Evan Martin’s book, which Alan posted above, Robert Leslie is named as the innkeeper of Bridge Inn, East End. I found him in the 1881 census in the building marked red on the above maps - on the corner of Front Street and Walker Terrace.

Thank you for such a comprehensive reply. The area round Ridge Terrace makes sense as the pit is nearby - they were coal miners.

Thanks HPW! I knew I could rely on you to come up with the answer! Am I right in understanding that "putting" the tubs could involve either 'pushing' by hand or 'pulling' by horses? I'm asking from a purely linguistic interest in the development of the word 'putting'. I'm wondering if putters might have replaced cartmen doing basically the same work. Tommy the cartman at Netherton was about the same age as my father (born 1900) so he would have been working before 1920. I think my father started working in the pits at 13½. I must admit that I'd never thought about the coal allowance as being in lieu of wages but it leads me to another question. My father died when I was a teenager but my mother and her children lived on in the colliery house and she received a coal allowance. My older brothers were miners but already married and living elsewhere, though not in miners accommodation. The one brother still at home wasn't a miner. Was this a common thing - a kind of widow's allowance - that coal miner's widows continued to be provided with coal and housing? I don't know if my mother had to pay rent or not.

Canny Lass Thank you for the warning I contacted Andy.to take down my last comment All information is correct, thank you. How did you find that Margaret

I'm not sure I agree that a putter and a cartman ar the same thing. From a purely lexical point of view I believe a putter ’pushed’ tubs. From about the 12th century the word put, meaning to push or shove, was in common use. By the time the 16th century came around its meaning had been extended to include the meanig throw or hurl. It’s obsolete today but lives on to a degree in the highland sport of ’putting the shot’ and in the golfing terms ’put/putter’. Even our everyday word ’put’, meaning to place something in a certain position, has the same roots: Old English putian, Middle English potte. The word putter is in evidence very often in the early 19th century with the meaning ”one who throws (a stone or heavy weight)” and as early as 1743 for a type of golf club. To me it seems logical to extend its use to one who pushes/shoves coaltubs. Also, I’ve never heard of a coaltub being referred to as a cart. We need HPW on this one!!

A cartman was simply a colliery worker who drove a horse and cart either underground or above ground whenever transport was needed for goods, equipment or even workers. From my own experience, I remember 'Tommy the coalman' in Netherton Colliery in the fifties. Miners, then, received an allowance of free coal and my father's allowance was delivered to us, and everybody else in Netherton, by horse & cart driven by Tommy the coalman as he was known to everybody. My father, however, had earlier worked with Tommy underground where Tommy was a cartman. Lung problems forced Tommy to exchange underground work at the colliery for above ground work - still employed by the colliery. Delivering the coal allowance then became a major part of his work. My father never referred to him as Tommy the coalman. To him Tommy was always Tommy the cartman.

@Margaret Daley it is afer to pass on personal details etc. to members via the 'Message' system at the top of page. You should ask the Admin ie. @Andy Millne to remove your comment with your email address in and 'Message' @Canny lass