mercuryg

Something to do with less regulations I would think, Monsta.

Indeed, Andy, my friend tells me it was a scam totally unconnected with the one being hoaxed right now. The other guy I can't get hold of for info. iGlobal, or someone of that ilk, call me regularly. I tell them politely not to bother.

Interesting. I wonder how they're doing it, then, because a friend of mine in Cheshire has been ripped off of upwards of £100, although not the £315 mentioned.

I already know two people who have been victims of this.

Not quite Andy, but I can see why this might have become corrupted in time. A 'Nail', as in the momument you refer to, was common in market towns of the time and it is believed that 'pay on the nail' came about because these crosses/monuments were where the bartering took place. Quite why they became known as a nail is lost in time, but it is suggested that traders would nail their wares to them. There are few left, hence Bedlington's is a bit of a rarity in being so complete. The Boris Karloff story is a brilliant one; never heard that before! On the history note, I have a couple of letters from a Richard Young of the Ironworks posted to a solicitor in Alnwick in 1850; any ancestors of Young who can give me some further information on who he was?

Well done Merlin; great to see all that effort come good.

That's excellent, and again I appreciate the charitable aspect. I'm simply looking for that little something that makes Freemasonry worthwhile (not that I could take part, of course, having no belief in a Supreme Being, although nobody would ever know......)

What I'm trying to say is that these 'answers' are surely available without the need to join an organisation such as the Masons. So is the oppotunity to be charitable and serve others. I understand that, to some, it is an attractive proposition, but still cannot see how many will view either, or any, of the reasons for masonry so far given as an incentive to join. Respect to your husband, and to mickypotts above, and I hope there is renewed interest in what is a traditional and long lived organisation. I am just bewildered as to why anyone, in this day and age, would choose to seek out a Mason, and to get support for joining, and to go through the rituals, and to commit to a financial outlay, when everything that they will get is clearly available in everyday life. After all, we all have friends who will listen in confidence should we require; each of us can make charitable contributiosn should we want to; there are plenty places to go for merriment and meeting with like-minded people. That something special, that over-riding attraction, is eluding me.

Does it? Does it really offer answers to 'mysteries' that are not available elsewhere? Forgive me for being flippant - I must say this is a very interesting subject and a thread I am enjoying - but I really can't see how a Freemason of even the highest standing would know the answer to questions such as 'Is this all there is? Is man here for a purpose? What (if anything) lies beyond this life?' If there were answers to those questions, we can be quite certain that whoever discovered them would make a lot of money telling us all! The social scene sounds excellent, but surely there is more to being a Freemason than being part fo a charitable club where you can amuse yourself away from the wife? I mean, until very recently (and still in some places) you could do that at the local CIU club! You have clearly gathered that I'm questioning the very worth of becoming a mason; there has to be something in it of benefit beyond that which can be found elsewhere, and as a man of sound mind and a little intelligence I can't believe it's the promise of answers to the 'mysteries' you speak of!

With the amount of snow falling each day I don't think a gritter is going to be a lot of use. We need snow ploughs.

This is where we differ. Personally, a Christian - as in someone of that religion - who doesn't believe in Jesus can't really exist. I'm not at all religious, but have no doubt the man existed. A freemason who doesn't believe in a Supreme Being is an altogether simpler concept. The question I am asking here is this: if someone joins the Masons and declares a belief in a Supreme Being falsely (and I don't doubt there are many, I think they will likely make up a good proportion of the numbers as they do other clubs and societies) why has he done so? What is it that would inspire someone to make such a fundamentally dishonest statement in order to become a member of the Freemasons? It can't be so that they can contribute to charity, as everyone is free to do that, and let's face it, few will join for the traditional rituals, so what is it? What is the benefit of being a Freemason? Malcolm - thanks for those pics, interesting stuff.

Lazy sod. You come on here all pumped up asking for people to play and then decide you can't be arsed? What sort of a man are you?

Indeed, that's what I find hard to believe - that anyone would be amazed at Sikhs, Christians, Muslims, Catholics etc getting along together without rancour. It happens all the time. Despite the popular Daily Mail depiction of inter-religious rivalry it is unusual. The problems are exclusively related to a minority of extremists - among Christians as among Muslims and others - and these would not be those who become Freemasons and mingle with other creeds and religions. I am still at odds, however, with the Supreme Being angle, and it bothers me to some degree. I admire the charitable aspects of the Freemasons, and may like to play a part in that (although, as said before, one doesn't need to join a society to be charitable) and I like the picture your husband paints of a Gentlemans club with ritual, but to join, assuming I was able to persuade them to have me, I would have to falsely claim an allegiance to a Supreme Being. I wouldn't be the only Freemason who had done thus, no doubt. Given that I cannot believe all Freemasons actually do believe in a Supreme Being I am concerned at a lack of honesty in their intentions. I still don't know why anyone would join, to be honest.

You may also like to know, if you didn't already, that the chapel at Delaval Hall has Templar connections, with clear templar symbols carved into the walls.

How that joke loses a great deal of its worth with the substitution of 'ethnic minority' for the word that was originally there......

With respect, tez, nobody has the right to tell you to take down your national flag and it would be unlawful for them to do so unless you were flying it on a public building without permission. I'm all for national pride, and do not like the manner in which minority faiths are given the softly softly touch, but in the end, do you follow a faith?

I'm a bit of a scholar regards the Knights Templar and can completely refute the claim the the Order of the Rose Croix has anything to do with them other than a tenuous connection that was cooked up to create that belief.Leigh, Lincoln and Baigent have a lot to answer for with regards to perpetuating this myth. We're back to this belief in the 'supreme being' again, and it's this that bothers me. Let me elaborate a little. If all Masons have to pledge a belief in a Supreme Being that surely means that all Masons must be religious, that they must actually, truly, believe in God, Allah, call him what you will. In all honesty, I find it hard to believe that they are do actually, truly believe in a Supreme Being. Let's be honest here, this is the 21st century, and even the most ardent Christian is hard pressed to admit that there is a God up there who created the Earth in seven days. That's plain to see, and difficult to argue. So how have the Freemasons found so many men who actually, truly do believe this? It doesn't strike me as being very probable. Therein lies my problem: I don't believe in a Supreme Being so would not pledge that I do to join the Freemasons, and I can only logically assume that many who have joined the Freemasons, and pledged a belief in a Supreme Being, have not been entirely truthful. My question is - why would they do that? I have to be quite frank in response to this sentence and say - and I don't mean to offend - that I find this extremely hard to believe.

It's my middle name! This is the one thing that baffles me about Scientology. They all know it was created by Hubbard, so what are apparently intelligent people doing subscribin to a belief system they know is a fictional creation?

Same thing happened a couple of years ago when it got a new coat of white paint. I think the colour looks bloody awful as it happens. probably the little !*!@# that were chased away from th car park last night....

Monsta, you listed them as 'along the same lines'. They're not, are they?

I think you're being a little harsh there! It's quite clear that the Freemason's is nothing more than a gentlemans collective that has some traditional rituals; a number of those you mention above are about as far removed from that as possible, and are very much occult based. The Thule Society is nothing like the Freemasons at all, and the Illuminati probably doesn't exist (that's the original version, the Bavarian one, not th one that is rife on the internet as a new world order and is entirely fictional.) Scientology is, like it or not, a religion and I don't think many Mason's are assassins. Opus Dei is in fact not secret at all, but is merely a [art of the catholic church that is a bit more pious than the rest. Don't believe everything you read in The Sun.

Tarby, as an addendum to my earlier question about the merits of the Freemasons in the modern era, can ask you why you fancy joining? What is it that appeals to you?

Dajazar, Thank you for a measured and informative response. The problem for me is this 'belief in a supreme being'; I have none, and wonder whether all Mason's actually do? I would guess, and again I may be wrong as it is a guess albeit an educated one, that the majority of Freemasons in the UK are of the Christian faith. If so, do they also attend Church on a regular basis?

Have to say that the gritter did more than one run up the front street yesterday evening when I was about, and truck otwing a hopper filled up at least one of the containers by the Sun Inn. Minor roads will never be a priority unfortunately, but it always amazes me that teh country grinds to a halt after a couple fo inches of the stuff!

Dajazar, Thanks for that, and I respect all the charitable contributions, and like cympil I'm not having a dig but it is something that strikes me as curious that whenever I talk to anyone involved in Freemasonry they immediately leap to its 'defence' with tales of incredible charitable contributions and so on. Sometimes, it's almost as if the subject is embarrasing and the charity aspect is some sort of 'get out clause'. After all, as we all know charity begins at home - you don't need to be a part of some 'brotherhood' or other organisation to be charitable, it should come naturally. I'm interested, too, that you are keen to point out it is not a religion; I honestly thought Mason's were required to have some belief in God, and to declare such at whatever intitiation they take part in. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I would have thought that any such organisation with it's roots in relatively old history would have some Godly leanings. As it happens, I am not a complete newcomer to Freemasonry, having become interested at an early age in what it was all about upon finding that my father was (here's one for you Cympil) blackballed from the lodge in Blyth. Personally, I have to admit to finding what I read quite humourous, and that's what brings me to question the relevance of Freemasonry today. Perhaps numbers are falling because it continues to pursue an aura of 'mystery' and intrigue, coming across to the layman as something akin to a secret society in Harry Potter world, rather than offering anything that is unavailable elsewhere. In truth, those Mason's I know consider it a network for getting their professional attributes known, and if I want to I can do that at the Golf Club. Charity is great, and I hope the Freemasons continue to contribute quietly to such causes, but it can't just be charity that makes the Mason's relevant, can it?