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You may also like to know, if you didn't already, that the chapel at Delaval Hall has Templar connections, with clear templar symbols carved into the walls.

How that joke loses a great deal of its worth with the substitution of 'ethnic minority' for the word that was originally there......

With respect, tez, nobody has the right to tell you to take down your national flag and it would be unlawful for them to do so unless you were flying it on a public building without permission. I'm all for national pride, and do not like the manner in which minority faiths are given the softly softly touch, but in the end, do you follow a faith?

I'm a bit of a scholar regards the Knights Templar and can completely refute the claim the the Order of the Rose Croix has anything to do with them other than a tenuous connection that was cooked up to create that belief.Leigh, Lincoln and Baigent have a lot to answer for with regards to perpetuating this myth. We're back to this belief in the 'supreme being' again, and it's this that bothers me. Let me elaborate a little. If all Masons have to pledge a belief in a Supreme Being that surely means that all Masons must be religious, that they must actually, truly, believe in God, Allah, call him what you will. In all honesty, I find it hard to believe that they are do actually, truly believe in a Supreme Being. Let's be honest here, this is the 21st century, and even the most ardent Christian is hard pressed to admit that there is a God up there who created the Earth in seven days. That's plain to see, and difficult to argue. So how have the Freemasons found so many men who actually, truly do believe this? It doesn't strike me as being very probable. Therein lies my problem: I don't believe in a Supreme Being so would not pledge that I do to join the Freemasons, and I can only logically assume that many who have joined the Freemasons, and pledged a belief in a Supreme Being, have not been entirely truthful. My question is - why would they do that? I have to be quite frank in response to this sentence and say - and I don't mean to offend - that I find this extremely hard to believe.

It's my middle name! This is the one thing that baffles me about Scientology. They all know it was created by Hubbard, so what are apparently intelligent people doing subscribin to a belief system they know is a fictional creation?

Same thing happened a couple of years ago when it got a new coat of white paint. I think the colour looks bloody awful as it happens. probably the little !*!@# that were chased away from th car park last night....

Monsta, you listed them as 'along the same lines'. They're not, are they?

I think you're being a little harsh there! It's quite clear that the Freemason's is nothing more than a gentlemans collective that has some traditional rituals; a number of those you mention above are about as far removed from that as possible, and are very much occult based. The Thule Society is nothing like the Freemasons at all, and the Illuminati probably doesn't exist (that's the original version, the Bavarian one, not th one that is rife on the internet as a new world order and is entirely fictional.) Scientology is, like it or not, a religion and I don't think many Mason's are assassins. Opus Dei is in fact not secret at all, but is merely a [art of the catholic church that is a bit more pious than the rest. Don't believe everything you read in The Sun.

Tarby, as an addendum to my earlier question about the merits of the Freemasons in the modern era, can ask you why you fancy joining? What is it that appeals to you?

Dajazar, Thank you for a measured and informative response. The problem for me is this 'belief in a supreme being'; I have none, and wonder whether all Mason's actually do? I would guess, and again I may be wrong as it is a guess albeit an educated one, that the majority of Freemasons in the UK are of the Christian faith. If so, do they also attend Church on a regular basis?

Have to say that the gritter did more than one run up the front street yesterday evening when I was about, and truck otwing a hopper filled up at least one of the containers by the Sun Inn. Minor roads will never be a priority unfortunately, but it always amazes me that teh country grinds to a halt after a couple fo inches of the stuff!

Dajazar, Thanks for that, and I respect all the charitable contributions, and like cympil I'm not having a dig but it is something that strikes me as curious that whenever I talk to anyone involved in Freemasonry they immediately leap to its 'defence' with tales of incredible charitable contributions and so on. Sometimes, it's almost as if the subject is embarrasing and the charity aspect is some sort of 'get out clause'. After all, as we all know charity begins at home - you don't need to be a part of some 'brotherhood' or other organisation to be charitable, it should come naturally. I'm interested, too, that you are keen to point out it is not a religion; I honestly thought Mason's were required to have some belief in God, and to declare such at whatever intitiation they take part in. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I would have thought that any such organisation with it's roots in relatively old history would have some Godly leanings. As it happens, I am not a complete newcomer to Freemasonry, having become interested at an early age in what it was all about upon finding that my father was (here's one for you Cympil) blackballed from the lodge in Blyth. Personally, I have to admit to finding what I read quite humourous, and that's what brings me to question the relevance of Freemasonry today. Perhaps numbers are falling because it continues to pursue an aura of 'mystery' and intrigue, coming across to the layman as something akin to a secret society in Harry Potter world, rather than offering anything that is unavailable elsewhere. In truth, those Mason's I know consider it a network for getting their professional attributes known, and if I want to I can do that at the Golf Club. Charity is great, and I hope the Freemasons continue to contribute quietly to such causes, but it can't just be charity that makes the Mason's relevant, can it?

....thining about that; when the ink cartridge bomb was found a few weeks ago reports stated that intelligence believed there were several other such packages en-route to destinations in the USA. Where are they all?

Yes, and they've been very successful, I see!

How many are seaworthy? How old are they? What are they going to use subs for to invade the country joined on to them? As said before, numbers are great but they mean nothing when you are completely out-powered by the bigger, better, more modern and more accurate weaponry that your immediate neighbours have to hand, and South Korea has a fully operational, up to date and very powerful army waiting to wipe out the north if they put a foot wrong. The problem with the news reports is that they are glamourising the situation to the point where people think nuclear capability=the ability to wipe out the world. In fact, North Korea doesn't posess a missile capable of going much further than the border with Slouth Korea, and monitoring of their tests proves the ones they do have are wildly inaccurate and prone to fall short of their intended target. South Korea may be worried about the chances of random attacks, but the rest of the world is under no threat at all from North Korea, and the South can easily handle themselves.

Apologies for sounding a little condescending, but I read a lot. There is plenty of information on North Korea as defection from the country is rife. A quick search on the internet will give you a myriad of informative and often interestign books written by people with knowledge of the country. They are ill-fed, conscripted, misinformed, under-armed and poorly organised and the South Korean army, along with the 30,000 or so US troops in South Korea, would wipe them out in a moment. Numbers count for nothing when your firepower is outclassed. We, as in the UK, wouldn't have any part to play.

History quite clearly shows they are nothin whatsoever to do with the Knights Templar, despite romantic notions that they might be. It is a convoluted story as you say. I'm interested to hear what our Mason thinks they bring to the party in teh 21st century.

In 2009 North Korea tested a nuclear bomb. The blast was measured at somwehere between two and five kilotons. The original US atomic bomb tests, in the middle part of the last century, measured 12 kilotons and above. The simple deduction, and the belief by military experts with help from intelligence, throws up two possibilities: either the blast was, like a previous North Korea detonation, a conventional bomb simulated to appear as an atomic explosion, or the bomb did not work. The nuclear threat from NK is massively over exaggerated in the press - it doesn't take much investigation to discover such. The army suffers from desertion as there is no food; the arms they have are outdated and poorly maintained; their is little in the way of training, no discipline, and widespread mutiny in the ranks. Again, it doesn't take much to find all this out. If you read a little more than the tabloids you should be able to deduce that South Korea would stem the North's advances in an instant, and also that China would not lift a finger. Vietnam, and Afghanistan, bear absolutely no relation to the North/South problem in Korea. The former was a concerted effort by th yanks to show how big and clever they were, the latter a war that everybody said could not be won before we went in. One more thing: let's say that North Korea sends it's troops over the border to invade the South. Everything is much sunnier down there, life is very much westernised, civilization is ordered and the economy is growing fast. The people have food, jobs, homes, cars and all the trappings of a well run, ordered country that is on the up. What do you think might happen next?

North Korea has, at best, a handful of nuclear weapons of dubious capability. The army is starving and poorly disciplined, mainly conscripted and hardly committed. The weaponry it holds is outdated and would be no threat to any opposing force. Any threat of major catastrophe in the region is exaggerated. It's just the North throwing a few toys at the South to remind them they are there.

I'm interested in your comments, Harty. What do you see as Freemasonry's part in modern society?

Wonderful. Gets the point in.

The 'Ridge to become an Indian' has been doing the rounds for about 18months now; I was even told in the spring of this year that all the staff had been given their notice and it was to close the next week. I think we can safely assume that one wasn't true. I can't see why it would close, to be honest, as even in this week of the great white hope opening it's still been busy. The Dun Cow has had a lot of money spent on it, according to someone 'in the know', and apparently has been kitted out as a restaurant on top. As far as I know, whoever did it - I was told the name - now intends to sell because he doesn't stand a hope in hell against the corporate multi million pound approach of the people at the top of the street. That's what Wetherspoons does to a small town - think of it like a pub-Tesco's.

The situation is one that was seen coming years ago; the Euro was never going to work from day one, as each country has different needs. Someone put it nicely the other day - go and ask eight of your friends, and a few people who you sort of know but are not really sure about, if they fancy opening a joint bank account. We - the UK - can't bail Ireland out; we're not part of the Eurozone, and we haven't got any money.

I'm sure they will enforce bans on those who don't behave, but to be honest I'm surprised you didn't see it coming. offer 'morons' cheap beer and they'll drink it.

As one of the premier 'doom and gloom' merchants (albeit one who has concerns about the economics rather than the place itself) I feel it only right that I should report on my experience of the place. I was there on Friday night, it was packed, the beer was fine - and cheap - and the food OK but clearly frozen and microwaved (at the price I wouldn't expect anything else) and the staff were able and affable. The decor is great - they have done a lovely job of the redesign - but one thing that came immediately to my attention was the clientele; those in their on friday were mostly young, mostly pissed and mostly loud. Not the sprt of people some on here are professing to prefer as company. Of course, the obligatory trouble has already started - I have tales of fights in there, and outside, most every night, and the Salvation Army are absolutely up in arms about people parking in their car park and have involved the police. That's a problem I think everyone saw coming. On the subject of the staff, I have absolutely no doubt they will halve the numbers they have and that will lead to some very pxxxxd off people; a good number of those whom I know have taken jobs there left part time bar jobs elsewhere to do so. They are not going to find those positions open for them as I am absolutely cerain they've all been filled already. Some way to please the locals, that is. On the level, though, I'll probably go in for Sunday Lunch later, although the prospect of the carvery at the Ridge is also attractive, and Accolade has a good offer on at the moment so we'll see. I still ask - where is the general weekday trade going to come from? Many of the afternoon drinkers who promised me they were going there for th cheap beer, without a doubt, certainly, no chance otherwise, have been there and tried it and returned to their original watering holes the next day having declared it 'not to their taste'. No surprise there.