threegee

9 minutes ago, Canny lass said:

I’m sensing a feeling of exasperation.....

This is always what happens when you bump into a few Swedish Democrats...  A.K.A moral inferiors, and filthy racists.

38 minutes ago, webtrekker said:

If I were you 3g, I'd stick to the previously mentioned Kipling and his exceedingly good cakes!

Kipling?!  No need, my mum bought 'IF' for me when I was little and hung it on the wall.  Can't say I've still got it word for word, but most of it is still there.

The WSJ is good reading though:

Quote

Some weeks ago, my significant other, a native Swede, and I hosted a dinner party where he specifically asked me not to express my views on the refugee crisis to avoid an uncomfortable situation. To me, this was unfathomable. Even if their opinions were different, I was still interested in having an open discussion. I wanted to understand the reasoning behind their opinions.

Puzzled, I reached out to an American expat in Stockholm who has lived in Sweden since 2013 to see if his experience matched mine. Although he asked that his name not be used, he said: “If you have an opinion that slightly differs from what’s seen as popular or safe, you can easily be labeled as a racist.”

One reason for what seemed to me a dearth of discussion might be the way that Swedes see themselves. Gunnar Gilberg, Gothenburg University lecturer for sociology and work science, said: “One explanation of why the migration debate is so sensitive in Sweden is probably the Swedish self-image of being a moral superpower. Many in Sweden really want to be good people and there’s a black-and-white perception of who the victim is and who is guilty. If you are critical, for example, of immigration in Sweden you can be quickly seen as morally deviant.” He added that this collective mindset has tended to block debate among politicians, journalists and opinion leaders.

Sensitivity over this topic was something I’d not been accustomed to among my circle in New York. As I tried to discuss issues among several friends and acquaintances in Sweden, I soon realized from the glares and awkward silences that this was not a topic to bring to the dinner table. Was it possible to show support for Sweden’s admirable humanitarian efforts yet still address a bit of concern to what this would mean for the future?

...

Why the Swedes I Know Are Reluctant to Talk About the Refugee Crisis

Shall we agree that the answer to his question is an emphatic NO?

Article 50 was designed 'NEVER to be used' - says the man who wrote the EU divorce clause

Quote

He said: ”I hope that the negotiations are dragged on so they won't be wrapped up by 2020. (Prime Minister) May wants to wrap things up by 2019, but it will be easy to prolong matters."

"When it comes to the economy they have to lose.” 

Hmm... what a truly marvellous club to belong to!

11 hours ago, Eggy1948 said:

Surely the happiest day of anyone's life is always 'today'. Everyday we wake up has to be the the best day of one's life. One day we wont wake up, celebrate today.

What, no afterlife?!  You do understand that that's so heretical that you could easily be slaughtered on the spot?  Meanwhile, do leave the shorts in the drawer.

10 hours ago, Canny lass said:

You are unhappy. I feel your pain. Take solace in the fact that you are not alone. Millions in the world are unhappy with you. Should we look at some funny cat videos on YouTube? That usually works a treat for my grandchildren when they’re unhappy.

You're right; I think I will convert to Islam. Do they do waterproof Qurans - so that I can study in the pool?

On 20/07/2016 at 17:22, Canny lass said:

"an establishment cover up", eh? My word you do have inside information on a lot of things - number of islamistic activists in the UK, number of rapes in Sweden, direct lines to the tory government and now this!

You may just have read way too much Enid Blyton as a youngster.

Yes, I know, I know, all journalists, of all political persuasions  - including left-wing journalists who really really wish it wasn't true  - lie in their teeth about Sweden (to sell newspapers), and everything government-bought academics say is unassailable.

How's the planet that Sweden has moved to doing, though it looks like Finland (and likely Norway too) is still on planet Earth?

Finland showdown with Brussels after Finns rule 77% of Iraqi migrants could be sent home

Follows:

• Attack on credibility of DE ("direct lines to the tory government and now this" - different paper of different political persuasion, actually).
• Syntactic analysis of text to demonstrate that black=white.
• implications that poster is know-it-all simply because he listens to the breadth of what is being said ("My word you do have inside information on a lot of things").
• Patronising derision ("You may just have read way too much Enid Blyton as a youngster.")
• Argument invalid because poster carelessly hit apostrophe.
• Ad hominem attack on people the poster profoundly disagrees with, but respects their views and right to say it (Red Ken).
• Declaration that poster is mentally unbalanced. (Lost argument flag).
• Let's change the subject (What's the weather like where you are?).
• ...anything but address the actual issue raised in an honest manner.

Obviously missed quite a few there, but I'm sure you will help out!

[UPDATE]  Thanks!

• Quote Kipling to falsely imply poster is upset (I like the Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools bit, myself.) 

8 hours ago, mercuryg said:

No 3G, I just like to remind you you were wrong! It's fun! 

Merc, did you notice that your Remainian friends are talking about you in the Torygraph?

Quote

To everyone’s relief, the economic impact of the Brexit vote has so far not been as bad as many – including me – feared it might be. Well, perhaps not everyone, for there is nothing quite as galling as to be proved wrong. For many of those who warned of catastrophe, a recession is still greatly to be desired – so as to punish voters for their own stupidity, as it were.

This is a natural enough reaction, but it is not at all constructive, particularly when it comes to business, where success depends on the ability to adapt and respond opportunistically and optimistically to any change in circumstance.

How Brexit can set Britain free to boom again

17 hours ago, Canny lass said:

I understand that you are feeling stressed. Try to relax by thinking of something pleasant - what was the happiest day in your life for instance?

The 24th June 2016.

1 hour ago, Canny lass said:

I think I'm understanding that you are irritated. Try to think of something other than politics for a while. How's the weather in Italy at the minute? Are you still caught up in the middle of a heatwave? 

Yes, I'm irritated that you are exploiting the rules to post off topic here. (Though nothing like as irritated as you get when I wind you up).  But, you know, (forum) rules are the rules, so please go tell the people who are bad losers, and who you are supporting, this.

The norm is not the subject for conversation here, and you become acclimatised after three or four years..  We just have to hunker down in a pool, and maybe order a new aircon now and then.  And, of course, there's siesta.  If you can't afford the (politically) inflated electricity prices - they are far higher for non-residents (politics, again) - you can always go to a shopping mall and use their aircon over an unbelievably cheap cup of coffee until near sundown.  It's a hell of a life, but it still beats the frozen North for most of the year.  Pity about the economy being trashed by the ECB, but things will change; the Italians may be slow at times (this is balanced by the need for speed), but they certainly aren't stupid..

Was there still too much politics there?

20 hours ago, mercuryg said:

"there is nothing to recover from - the pound is fine just where it is."

What? The reason I keep posting updates on the pound/dollar is because, among your things that would not happen, you clearly stated it was recovering. It's not.

Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to quote the actual phrase you referred to in your assertion?  (This would have enabled more accurate syntactic analysis by cohort CL.)

Do you want Sterling to fall, or do you want it to rise, and against what reference?  A simple question, and a straight answer would be nice.  In the absence of an answer your position looks a bit like the position of the Labour Party on many issues: we will will cherry pick reality to suit our narrative, even if the overwhelming body of evidence says we were utterly wrong.  My own position is clear: "the pound is fine just where it is."

Today's rate is well off the recent lows and maintaining a fairly steady €1.20 and that's just fine.  All hell is about to break lose in the Eurozone, so you'd be well advised not to bet against your own house.  As I've already said, our problem now is that we are still far too close to the EZ for comfort, as we have been foolishly committed to the ESM for political reasons.  Unlike yourself I truly hope I'm wrong, and that the ESM demands won't roll in.  If they do it will be political dynamite, and another affirmation of the urgent need to leave.

On 19/07/2016 at 20:41, Canny lass said:

He also said that Boris Johnson would be next Prime Minister - and he isn't:

“The former London Mayor [Ken Livingstone] said Brexit would usher in Boris Johnson as Prime Minister so he would think about "emigrating to somewhere the economy is not going to collapse".

His comments, in his local newspaper the Ham and High, come just days after it was reported Labour bosses had blocked him from making media appearances after deciding he was "uncontrollable".”

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/73826/ken-livingstone-brexit-could-make-me-leave-country

"Someone who should be admired for "having the guts" to readily admit they were stupidly wrong." Really?

Yawn!  The usual diversionary ad hominem attack - this time on good old Red Ken.

1. I agree with hardly anything Ken says.
2. BUT I think Ken is an honest man who says what he genuinely thinks.
3. Ken recently spoke about Nazism and made some interesting, utterly factual, observations.
4. The Labour Party doesn't like the truth, and failing to shut him up suspended him.  (To use your words: shame on them.)
5. Unlike yourself I don't feel any need to agree with anyone to give them credit for being honest and transparent.
6. Ergo: Yes, really!

[Don't worry, I'm working through the other reams of rambling misconstrued garbage and diversionary off-topic stuff, as time permits.]

The Bedlington View on the timing of Brexit.

So where is there an explanation of WHY the taxpayer is required to fund the defence of a multi-millionaire?  Is he hiding behind his former office?  Anyone?

2 hours ago, mercuryg said:

"How many rapes and other atrocities have Muslim "refugees" committed in Sweden this week?"

...You probably also believe they are taking our jobs, stealing our dogs and eating them, and perhaps living in luxury in billion pound mansions in Knightsbridge. Of course, all of the above is bollocks. This is the sort of comment that makes me wonder whether I should actually pay any attention to your apparently well thought-out and considered comments. Perhaps I should make a direct comparison to Damascus, which has been reduced to rubble; you seriously compromise your credibility with nonsense such as this. 

You entirely miss the point - it was rhetorical.  The point is that we don't know the extent of the problems in Sweden because there is an establishment cover-up taking place.  The ruling elites are covering up the consequences of their own pet political theories.  Like CL they are in all-out denial mode.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/sex-assaults-sweden-stockholm-music-festival

If there is more than a handful of genuine refugees - as you seem to believe - then why are they practically all young males?

4 hours ago, mercuryg said:

"BTW I have not the faintest idea of what an "Oxford comma" is! " Really? That does surprise me, as you appear to know everything about everything else. For the record, it's a sort of one of these - , 

Today's recovering pound versus US dollar watch: 76 and a half pence! The recovery continues apace.

I know about what I know about and say clearly when I don't know.  I don't give a XXXX about the "Oxford comma", and deploy commas where it seems logical they should go.  Also I don't constantly imply you are a "know all", even though a lot of what you say is unreasoned leftie cant - though often tinged with some interesting economic realism.

As I've already said there is nothing to recover from - the pound is fine just where it is.  If Italy could devalue its currency like that it wouldn't be the economic basket case it now is and people here wouldn't be really suffering.  Actually, it would now need to devalue by over three times the UK adjustment, and the debt spiral continues.  I think the Italian politicians could say to hell with the ECB and recapitalise the banks anyway, but bank recapitalisation isn't enough as it is still labouring under a currency that is now about 35% overvalued.

I think the sad truth is that there's no other visible affects of the Brexit vote to point to, but you really really want there to be negatives.  Prove me wrong here; open your eyes to just some of the many positives, and stop talking down our great country.

2 hours ago, mercuryg said:

"Rather than companies relocating to the EU as was claimed the reverse is happening:"

That's one company; the word 'companies' refers to more than one. I could easily find you links about how many of those at the head of UK business are very concerned about Brexit, and believe it to be very bad for the UK economy, but you could do that also, and you are well aware of it. I'll be more than happy if businesses across the world suddenly relocate here, it would be great for the country as we all know, but I'd like them to be those that don't up sticks and leave when the government isn't nice to them about unpaid taxes, like these guys did last time. 

Actually it's two if you count the potential for new Land Rover production.  You ignore the essential point that the mass relocation of business isn't happening, or even being considered.

Not "are very concerned" but were sounding very concerned.  Economist group-think also affects business leaders, but there were also many business leaders who saw the upside who's views weren't given full exposure by a largely EU compliant media.

You are referring to Jim Ratcliffe, and in no way did he want to not pay the taxes due.  He asked for a little flexibility in scheduling, and like many things EU no flexibility was forthcoming because one size fits all.  Well... we have the flexibility now, and you are going to "be more than happy" when we use it to the advantage of the people of these isles.  I'm more interested in home-grown enterprise than imported, but both will happen.

A further eurozone crisis is just months if not weeks away, and we are still too attached for comfort.  October does not look good.

Rather than companies relocating to the EU as was claimed the reverse is happening:

Ineos moves international HQ back to UK

Interestingly:

Quote

Yesterday the tycoon said this has now happened and that he might also enter the car market, resurrecting the Land Rover Defender which was discontinued earlier this year by Indian owner Tata.

Following a feasibility study, the vehicle could be built in the North of England.

IMF slashes UK growth forecasts after Brexit - but Britain will still outstrip Germany, France and Italy

Obviously a quite different IMF from this one:

IMF says Brexit would trigger UK recession

Quote

Lagarde, who was in London on Friday to present the fund’s annual health check on the UK economy, said it was possible the economy would shrink in two consecutive quarters, which is the definition of a recession.

“We have looked at all the scenarios. We have done our homework and we haven’t found anything positive to say about a Brexit vote,” she said.

The IMF said a panic among investors would trigger shockwaves throughout the economy following a vote to leave, sending shares and property prices into downward spiral.

18 hours ago, mercuryg said:

Of course, 3G, I'll talk about something I know about: the pound. 76p on the dollar today. I hope I have to wait ages for this recovery you assure me is happening. Oh, and the Duckworth Leeis method; I know about that. It's fun. 

I hope you enjoy the favourable exchange rate for a good long time, though I certainly won't be complaining when it improves.

Quote

Around two fifths of UK-listed companies run their finances in the stronger dollar currency, which could lead to exchange rate gains of just over £2.8bn in the second half of the year on top of the £1.4bn already booked in due to the pre-Brexit pound slump.

Brexit’s plunging pound brings dividend bonanza

8 minutes ago, Canny lass said:

SEEK HELP! You are sick!

Really?!  I'm tempted to say physician heal thyself, but will simply say goodnight! 

3 hours ago, Canny lass said:

I do not give a jot about where you quoted from. It’s enough that it’s a newspaper!...

Time after time, on level after level, I have demonstrated that newspapers manipulate text to sell copies. I’m a linguist by profession. I work with text. Get over it! Oh, I'm forgetting, a university education and a handful of degrees mean nothing. Maybe, instead of specializing in one subject, I should have spent six years setting up television aerials instead and become an expert on everything.

Now, another challenge; you state quite categorically that The Telegraph “has multiple direct lines into the heart of the Tory government”. You state it  in a declarative sentence – That's to say, something which the writer knows to be true.  Name these multiple direct lines! If you can name them I personally will write to each and every one of them, ask if it's true, and publish their replies here (yes, I know that's an Oxford comma but I quite like them and they are rapidly gaining ground in the English language).

"It’s enough that it’s a newspaper!"  Wow, how nice to live in a world of absolutes, and such certainty!

Time after time you've done nothing of the sort. University degrees don't trump hard experience - the rehearsal is not the show!  You repeatedly talk down the press, and talk up academics, yet the same economic forces hold for both.  So, what precisely have I claimed to be an expert on?  Here you've plucked a remark I made in a photo comment about TV aerials from over half a century ago in order to disparage me, and done so without any knowledge of my engineering and financial management experience or accomplishments.  I think that maybe your "specializing in one subject" could be viewed as the apocryphal person with a hammer (i.e. viewing everything as a nail). The world has more facets than any of us can ever behold, and a full appreciation of that fact only comes through age and experience - and certainly not through lexical analysis.

On your second "challenge":  You know that I can only speak from experience.  My experience is that practically everything that appears in the Telegraph about the Tory party will turn out to be correct, and that's not the case with any other publication.  Obviously journalists don't (and mostly can't) reveal their sources, but (libel laws aside) they do have reputations to maintain, and thrive or not by their acquired reputations. No, you can't simply dismiss it with a trite they "manipulate text to sell copies".  I suspect that many academics only maintain their reputations by proxy i.e. much of what they churn out is so thoroughly uninteresting that no one critical ever studies it.  And, whether is is relevant or not to the ascent of man becomes itself a proxy issue.

BTW I have not the faintest idea of what an "Oxford comma" is!

3 hours ago, Canny lass said:

You use the verb ‘to talk down’ in its transitive form and are therefore accusing me of disparaging and belittling my country of birth. That’s a very serious accusation. May I just remind you that:

It’s not me who, publicly and almost daily, derides the work done by Her Majesty’s democratically elected, Government

It’s not me who, publicly and almost daily, applies derogative nicknames to the, democratically elected, Prime Ministers who have headed that government

It’s not me who criticizes the social security system of my own country

It’s not me who belittles the educational system of my own country

It’s not me who disparages the British constitution or the laws of my own country

And it’s certainly not me who derides fellow, law-abiding British citizens because of their ‘legally’ chosen religion in their own country!

SHAME ON YOU!!

 

A challenge; show me ONE instance of my disparaging the UK and I will show you ten instances of you doing that very same thing.

You are talking down your own country in repeatedly implying that an emergency budget may be necessary when every bit of economic news says it's surely not.

I did not vote for "Her Majesty’s democratically elected, Government" and have every right to point out its deficiencies - it's called democracy!  We live in a free country, though that may no longer be true where you now live.

Cameron is a proven liar, even (no, particularly) his own party don't trust him.  He's history now, and I have never criticised May; that's because so far she has acted honestly, even though I may not entirely agree fully with the direction we are now going in.  If you follow the news you'll observe that May has made it very clear that she too is appalled by the way the Eton crowd have been playing games with the management of the country.

Refer me to a copy of this constitution that I disparage, and point out this actual disparagement please?

Of course you don't criticise: you live in a society where the truth has been taken hostage, and anyone who speaks it is labelled an extremist.

Would you be talking about Shariah law there or the one the rest of us obey?  How many rapes and other atrocities have Muslim "refugees" committed in Sweden this week?  Sorry, but I don't want my country to turn in to the basket case that the liberal left has turned Sweden into.  France is now waking up to its fate, and you are not going to like what now happens there one little bit, but that is where you apologists for a primitive belief-set that has no place in the modern world are taking much of Europe.

I have nothing to be ashamed of, and please keep the school marm lectures and hectoring back in school - where they belong!

Quote

“I would personally start thinking about emigrating to somewhere the economy is not going to collapse.”

Ken Livingstone -- June 2016

Quote

“All the predictions of an economic collapse were wrong, all that turned out to be wrong. It was nonsense quite frankly, economists never get it right.”

Ken Livingstone -- July 2016

Someone who should be admired for "having the guts" to readily admit they were stupidly wrong.

17 hours ago, mercuryg said:

It was meant as a humorous aside; besides, you've patronised me plenty other times. I read plenty articles; not all of them agree with this one. Anyway, I'm officially bored of politics, and will henceforth revert to commenting on local issues.

Really?!   If so I'd like to apologise. What am I apologising for?

I've explained why this article is authoritative in the reply to CL.

17 hours ago, Canny lass said:

It's not only the Telegraph that's used "ruled out an emergency budget" in its headlines. Most of them, however, say something else in the text. Here's a small selection:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36792202

14 July 17, 2016: He added he did not anticipate the need for an emergency Budget as a result of the Brexit vote.

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/07/14/475139/Britain-Brexit-Philip-Hammond-Chancellor-Exchequer-Theresa-May

Hammond said in his first interview on Thursday morning as the Chancellor of the Exchequer that there will be no “plan for an emergency budget,” following the country’s June 23 vote to leave the European Union.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3689669/New-Chancellor-Philip-Hammond-says-NOT-Brexit-punishment-Budget-threatened-George-Osborne-takes-No-11.html#ixzz4EgTMNDsZ

Mr Hammond said: 'There is no plan for an emergency budget,

My comment: I have no plans for a holiday abroad next month, neither am I anticipating snow in September - does that rule out the possibility of either actually happening? 

I quoted from the Torygraph because it has multiple direct lines into the heart of the Tory government.  If I'd wanted to convey what Rupert Murdoch felt on an issue I'd quote from The Times. e.g. The Times got it quite wrong in it's "inside info" on some of May's appointments, though, granted, its mischief did put her into power.

The operative word was emergency, and that emergency stemmed from the sudden affects of the Brexit vote.  Budgets come along with regularity and are well signposted. There is a logical linkage between cause and effect, no?

Quote

emergency:

1.  a serious, unexpected, and often dangerous situation requiring immediate action.

This linkage is undoubtedly bidirectional:  no immediate action, no emergency!

Do you take emergency holidays abroad?  Most people book holidays well in advance, but in case you haven't you'll need a plausible(?) excuse!

http://www.careeroverview.com/blog/2010/100-reliable-and-ridiculous-excuses-for-calling-out-of-work/

My choice:  #61. There was a car accident. (Because the driver started to discuss the linguistics of the screamed warning.)  That will surely do it!

On 17/07/2016 at 09:43, mercuryg said:

What damage would that be specifically? 

Great question; why don't you ask your mates in the business world? They might be able to enlighten you. Or, of course, you could simply continue to believe that the pound (76p this morning!) is recovering, and everything is hunky dory in the world of finance, as the Guardian tells you.

" we will surely see some resurgence in what's left of our fishing industry, etc.etc."

Why, and how? You do realise we will still be governed by EU quotas, surely? You honestly don't think that we will suddenly have utter freedom? ReallY/

Brian asks: "Question for 3G when will Brexit begin ?"

Even better question, this! There could be several answers, Brian; 1) when someone has the guts to handle it (i.e. never) 2) when Theresa May decides (never) or 3) never,  It won't, because it's a daft thing to do.

My friends these days are investors, and they are not all UK based or of UK nationality. They can't help me with the question I directed at you because they don't have any problem.  But, apparently, you do have a problem yet fail to advise as to what that problem specifically is.  Here be dragons really isn't good enough these days (as Duplicitous Dave discovered quite recently).

Put your money where your mouth is and make me a bet that Article 50 won't be invoked (and/or the European Communities Act (1972) revoked) within one year of today's date.  I will happily pay up even if I'm just one day long.