Keith, I really do understand, I have been bleating on about this stuff long enough! I know how hard it is I did it long enough. Just to further complicate your analogy of a café and a coffee............"and another national enterprise opens up and hey presto a cup of coffee is 50p!" I have just read through the latest economic development planning by NCC and it makes dismal reading for places like ours! This is of course subjective, some might say the futures bright the futures !*!@# Orange. Thing is there are usually ways around everything in business you just need to know where to look!