Canny lass

It’s always interesting to see how the wheels of government grind. I’m all for transparency!

Thanks for the link to the Commons Library. I’ll be saving that for future perusal. Having read the document, am I right in understanding that central government has defined affordable as ”up to 80%” but ileaves it to local government to set the bar on a scale of 0-80% for their own area (30% in the case under discussion)?

1 hour ago, Malcolm Robinson said:

So depending on what we are talking about, renting, ownership, part ownership etc. this ambiguous term has a multiple of meanings.  Can that be right? 

It can indeed be right. Affordability means different things to different people because what’s affordable, cheap or expensive to one person is related to that individual’s perception – influenced, as I said previously, by that person’s tastes, feelings and opinions and even circumstances. So every person at that meeting could, and probably did, have their own idea of what was being discussed as ”affordable housing”. It’s a minefield for misunderstanding made all the more explosive if even the various planning instances involved are not working to the same definition.

Clearly, in the case of the report under discussion, some body of people somewhere, has defined the term ’affordable’ for the purpose of that project/report – otherwise, Cllr Hardcastle wouldn’t have been able to produce it. Myself, the least I’d expect is that such subjective terminology be defined at the outset of such a report. In that way, no one is left with any doubt as to what is being reported on or being discussed. In the absence of that then it’s good to know that there are people like yourself who are prepared to ask for a definition.

Naturally, everyone will not agree with it. As i said, it’s subjective terminology but it has to be called something and provided everyone knows what is meant by the term ’in just that report’ then there is no room for ambiguity – only for differing opinion.

Correct me if I’m wrong, Malcolm, but I understood from the government definition provided that the term affordable was specific to just one area - ”30% below the market rate for that area ”. Naturally, I’d expect that 30% to be based on, among other things, wage structure and not just the current market rate and hopefully that is the case. Perhaps market rates reflect the economic status of the area in question? I do, however, take your point about the outcome of basing anything on a super-heated market and, unfortunately, I have to agree.

Keep up the good work!

Symptoms, I see where you’re coming from when you mention misleading language. The question we should be asking is whether or not there is deliberate intention to mislead. The english language, or any other for that matter, doesn’t have too many ’absolute’ things – most are variable because they are subjective to the perceiver/user. We all have our own unique perspective on things which is influenced by our own personal tastes, feelings and opinions . These, in their turn, have been influenced by our uppbringing, culture and education. Let me clarify: a dog is a dog - that’s absolute. However, as soon as we get round to putting labels on the dog we are being subjective. A dog that jumps up and licks your face after licking its genitals may be labelled ’disgusting’ by you but labelled ’friendly’ by its owner. Two different ways of perceiving the same thing.

And so it is with labels on housing. as well They are also subjective. and have variable meaning according to our own perspective on what is: affordable, expensive, nasty, nice etc.etc. - one man’s meat is another man’s poison. Then, of course, English has a host of words that have both a positive AND a negative meaning. Cheap is a perfect example which in one context retains its original fourteenth century, positive meaning of ’a good bargain’ but in another context adopts the more modern, negative meaning ’of poor quality’.

I’m very much aware that this lexical ambiguity can, and is quite often, used deliberately by and to the advantage of politicians, not to mention the field day reporters have with it! Malcolm clearly understands this so I think he did right in asking for the term affordable to be defined. A clear answer, subjective though it may be, (subjectivity can’t, unfortunately, be siphoned off) allows everybody to understand just what is being discussed.

For that reason I thought Malcolm’s question was very relevant. He wanted to know the meaning of ’affordable’ according to the person using the term. Its interpretation was vital to everybody ’s understanding of just what was being discussed and, in my opinion, Clr, Hardcastle gave a clear reply in saying that it was a government definition set at 30% below the market rate for that area for rent and shared ownership. This left no one, regardless of their own definition of ’affordable’, in any doubt as to what was being discussed.

A very pertinent question , Malcolm, in relation to the meaning of "affordable" in "affordable housing".

Robert and Joan are a bit younger than me and probably wouldn't remember him.

Good question! I've no idea but I imagine there are a few individuals hoping that they are Bobby and that they'll wake up to find this has all been a bad dream!

Keep posting, Malcolm. This could be better entertainment than Dallas!

On 14/06/2022 at 14:06, Malcolm Robinson said:

Anyone still wanting more info here is the latest NCC cabinet meeting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJJJOgZLRhs

Thanks Malcolm! haven't had time to view it yet but should get round to it in the next couple of days.

I now have a full name, a possible year of death and even an adress to help with my research. That should enable me to move on. Bedlingtonians are wonderful, helpful people. Thank you all!

What an experience for anybody to go through! I'm not surprised you remember all the details, HPW, Something like that must be extremely difficult to forget for all involved - everyone of them traumatized in one way or another. My heart goes out to Dusty but equally it goes out to the overman and to those who carried out the rescue. Thanks for sharing.

Sadly, I believe that Dusty is Stephen's relative.

Thanks Eggy! I can't think of anything else. A date of death could lead me into other archives but I can start on the years around 1990 and see what the obituary columns give. We always had a piano at home but nobody used it except Mac, especially on New years Eve. I think half of Netherton joined in the sing-a-long.

Damming indeed, Malcolm! It beggars belief that an internal auditing system, which they claim to have, couldn’t spot what was going on for five whole years! There seem to have been enough ’warning flags’ over those years to deck out the whole of Bedlington’s Front street for the Jubilee celebrations!

For me, internal auditing, with which which I’m well aquainted through my former profession, serves not only to evaluate internal controls, accountability processes and accurate reporting but also to ensure that regulations, not to mention laws, are complied with. So how the H***l could things go this far for NCC?

I'll get on to it this evening, Malcolm. It can't be worse that what's on telly!

Not sure of the spelling for this surname but I'm trying to find out what happened to Mac McGregor. I don't know his first name as he always went by the name Mac. I think he would have been born  1930ish and he  used to play the piano around the Bedlington pubs and clubs in the 50s and possibly into the 60s. At that time he was unmarried. Always smartly dressed and in particular when on stage - maroon smoking jacket, black trousers and sometimes a bow tie. I think he was a miner and may have lived in the Hartlands area. Any information welcome: married, children,adress, deceased etc. Everything of interest.

On 10/06/2022 at 21:29, Alan Edgar (Eggy1948) said:

Sorry @Malcolm Robinson - I switched off after 30min

I made it to the recess. Well done Malcolm that's a real labour of love.

Hi again, @Stephen Clark

I've now had a chance to go through the Evening Chronicle and the Journal but even there I didn't find any reports of mining accidents for the date or name  you gave. I think HPW's detailed account of the accident involving "Dusty Miller" may well be the nearest we get.

Hi Anne, that would seem to be the Journal as it's written by a Journal reporter. Fatal accidents were more easily reported on than non-fatal accidents as information was freely available to reporters through the coroner's courts, as in your dad's case. I haven't had a look at either the Journal or the Evening Chronicle for Stephen's relative yet but I'm hoping to get a bit of time next week.

I've now searched the local newspapers as they usually have good reports of mining accidents in the area. I haven't been able to find anything in either the Blyth News or the Morpeth Herald. This suggests to me that it may have been a minor accident with only one person involved. Something similar happened to my father at Netherton pit when he was the only man injured in a small roof fall. That never made the newspapers either. I'll keep searching.

Good idea, Eggy! Consult the 'oracle'!

Welcome to the forum, Stephen. Would you be able to give us the name of your great uncle? If you don't want to post it on site you can send a direct message.

I can agree that membership was predominantly male - throughout the country as a whole, not just in Bedlington, and for just those reasons you give. I may have misunderstood your statement "and it was only for men" as I thought you were referring to the movement's general regulations. Perhaps women became more involved with the social side of the movement. I have vague recollections of my mother attending beetle drives at the 'mech' during my early childhood and I believe it was something she started doing way back in the 30s when the family lived in the Arcade.

Your gran sounds like my type of woman and having a penchant for all things Victorian, especially those related to the working classes, I'd love to read about her. I don't suppose life was too different in any parts of the north east so there is a certain relevance to her story. Get it posted!

19 hours ago, Vic Patterson said:

I still have some of that asbestos!

Hopefully in all the right places, Vic!

Bike! Shanks's pony more likely.

10 minutes ago, Alan Edgar (Eggy1948) said:

I still wonder if every household, prior to Family Allowance, actually made the effort to travel to the registrar's

There was also a fine of a few pounds for those who didn't register and that would probably cost more than the busfare.