Canny lass

3g, are you telling me that it's not only within the health service that there are people of the muslim persuasion WORKING - i.e. those doctors and nurses you mentioned earlier? You mean that some are also WORKING as taxi drivers? What happened to all those stay at home, benefits fiddling, rights demanding people of the same persuasion that we read about so often on the Internet? With all these muslims working, who's left to do the job of "outbreeding the local population" and more importantly, when do they find time to do it?

You suggest that I may have to agree to wearing a burka simply because I'm told to sit in the back seat of a taxi. I suggest that you may have a genuine, but never the less irrational, fear that the UK is on its way to becoming a Sharia state - that's to say predominantly populated by people of the muslim faith either through "outbreeding the local population" or by converting the local population by whatever means possible - as you appear to suggest in your question. Let's have a look at these two possibilities and see if I can put your mind at rest. First we'll take a look at the "outbreeding of the local population" and why I think it will never happen.

According to the 2011 census there are around 63 million residents in the UK. Of these, some 25.3 million are aged between 15 and 44 - the fertile years. However, they are not all female. Roughly half (49%) are men leaving the 51% , 12 903 000, who are female to man the 'production line' as it were. But, wait a minute - not all of these are of the muslim persuasion! Again, according to the 2011 census, muslims account for only 4.8% of the population thereby reducing the 'workforce on the production line' to 619 344.

In order to give these poor women a fair chance of succeeding with the outbreeding job, I want us to imagine that no fertile female of any other religious persuasion ever gives birth to another child. Let's also imagine that there are no multiple births from this muslim 'workforce' (there aren't so many in reality that they would significantly change the outcome of this exercise). To make the maths easier we can keep the numbers constant by allowing one teenager to become fertile for every woman reaching the menopause - a bit like it is in real life. Now, given that a fertile female (perpetually pregnant (give or take the odd hour for giving birth and the odd minute or two for conceiving) can produce max. 4 children every 3 years (multiple births not counted), and is fertile for approximately 30 years, how long would it take for these 619 344 women to outbreed the local population?

I've never been brilliant at maths but I get it to somewhere around the 80 years mark! And that is in optimal conditions with no competition from any other women and taking no account of reduced egg production forced upon us (men and women) by the biological ravages of time. Not to mention the part played by headaches and brewer's droop, though the latter is not likely to be a problem for the majority of muslim men - avoiding alcohol as they do! Add to that the fact that the UK's total fertility rate has been decreasing steadily since 2008 and was recorded in 2012 as being 1.92 children/woman - somewhat lower than the replacement rate of 2.075 children/woman.

RELAX 3g! It's never going to happen. This is not an optimal world. Women of all denominations will continue to lie on their backs thinking of England (when they are not thinking of what to give hubby for his tea) and popping out youngsters at the rate of 1.92 per woman. Some biological clocks will undoubtedly have stopped ticking by the age of 45 while most others will at the very least be going slow but I'm quite sure of one thing - whatever their religious persuasion most women will have drawn the line long before reaching the 40 births in 30 years required to "outbreed the local population".

Then there's the question of converting the population to Islam. Again, using the information given by the local population in the 2011 census, I don't think you have any need to be afraid. The majority (59.3%) are still christian bringing with them all that safety in numbers can offer. Another 25.1% have no religion at all while yet another 7.2% haven't bothered to answer the question at all. So, it would appear that a third of the population aren't sufficiently interested in religion to belong to any denomination whatsoever, making conversion to Islam highly unlikely. Ther'e a very good book by Prof.Grace Davies Religion in Britain Since 1945: Believing without Belonging (1994), in which she describes the steady decline of religious affiliation in post-war Britain. Judging by the census figures there doesn't appear to have been any great stampede to fill the void by converting voluntarily to Islam. there simply isn't any interest in it!

Neither do I believe that the UK will succumb to conversion under threat of being relegated to the back seat of a taxi. The extremists advocating total Islam are but a minute proportion of a minority group within Islam - the Shia Group comprising roughly 10% of all muslims. They do not represent nor  - sit down if your standing for this may surprise you - do they have any support from the majority of Islam's followers.

So, what's my answer to the taxi question? Well, I'm batting in the dark here as I'm still not sure I'd be able to recognise as muslim any unknown man soley by his appearance. Of the first Three alternative answers: get in the back, go nowhere, would never happen, there really isn't any that fits the bill. I have no objections to sitting in the back seat, in fact I usually do. If I'd hailed a cab it would be because I needed to get somewhere and I don't really understand Webtrekker's fourth alternative and I certainly wouldn't want a heart attack. However, I do believe it could happen. I've nursed patients detained under section 25 of the 1953 MHA with less delusional ideas!

Given no other choices I would probably have to opt for smartly pulling out the Kalashnikov, which self-respecting girls like myself always carry in their handbags, point it at his head and say "Take me to the nearest police station. I wish to report an act of sexual discrimination" and I'd probably add "Buster", like they do in the movies, just to frighten him a bit.

"and hints (or broadly shouts) at the other person's predjudices perhaps!" Is that Another Word for ignorance Symptoms?

Lucky you with a Bedlington visit coming up soon! Enjoy it and enjoy today as well. Happy Birthday Pete.

An interesting question 3g and i will do my best to answer it later in the day (school hols mean that I have a house full of grandchildren today) and the answer is likely to be long. However, in order to answer the question I need some additional information:.

In the situation you describe I, in order to appreciate the full impact of what I was being subjected to, would need to know that the driver was of the muslim persuasion. How would I know this? What distinguishing features of this taxi driver could lead me to believe that he was of the muslim persuasion? I mean, it could, equally hypothetically, have been his brother getting a lift to work who just left the front seat and company policy dictating that customers - men or women - should ride in the back seat. 

Webtrekker, I don't understand the fourth alternative you give but I'll offer a fifth:

e) Pray that you have your next heart attack right then and there because the chances that the taxi-driver is a highly qualified doctor, not born in the UK, are extremely high.

Well said, Pilgrim!

I don't recall saying that you did, Webtrekker and just for the record I have a problem with us fighting anywhere.

3g, recognising a heart attack in a 'burka' is no more difficult than recognising a heart attack in motorcycle gear. In some ways it's easier as you can feel a pulse through a burka much easier than through a crash helmet or leathers, ie normal western dress - for bikers .  There seem to be more of these than burkas in the UK.

In bilingualism there are no buyers and Sellers. Language interference works both ways - which is how I can see that you use English more than italian in your Daily Life. When in Rome as the saying goes!

I know what you mean Symptoms. There are labels everywhere these Days, yet in my twenty years in nursing I never Heard any colleague refer to themselves as a muslim nurse/doctor. Don't know if it's the case today but I'll ask around.

I wasn't implying anything 3g but I understand how you are thinking.. After Three years of pedalling my bike around the streets of London, visiting hospitals to interview coronary patients about their very own 'near death' experiences (in order to collect research material for a well known University), I have a genuine interest in any answer Webbtrekker may give.

I had thought of following it up with Another question: If a woman in a burka had a heart attack next to you, would you call an ambulance?

You ask me "why is a muslim doctor or nurse here , in the first Place". Most of them are here because they are British having been born here, as were their parents. They have been educated here (not trained, dogs are trained, humans are educated) and there must be something seriously wrong with a native English speaker who doesn't understand their language - it's the same as everybody else's. At times it can be spoken with an accent but to a native English speaker it shouldn't present any problems. How's your Italian by the way?

Just as a matter of interest Webtrekker - would you, in the event of let's say a heart attack or a stroke, refuse to be treated by a doctor or nurse of the muslim persuasion?

Sounds Lovely Malcolm! Any Pictures?

"the tree just Before the Black Bull pub" - Do we have two trees this year?

Problem with this kind of prank is that it soon wakes the competitive instinct of like-minded individuals. You may have heard of 'Julbocken i Gävle' (The Christmas goat in Gävle). The goat, made of straw and decorated with red ribbons is a traditional Xmas symbol here. In 1966 the town of Gävle placed a huge Xmas goat, 13 metres high, 7 metres long, on the town square just to spread a bit of Christmas cheer. It was made by the lads of the local fire brigade in their off duty hours (and still is). It was only there a few days until it was burned to the ground. It's been burned down almost every year since. They have had CCTV surveillance, neighbourhood watch, and even drenched it in some  non-flammable chemical - which worked but the goat looked like a drowned rat and this method was therefore abandoned the following year. Now they have round the clock hired guards whose wages are paid partly by the council and partly by public donation. This event makes the news every year, not just here but halfway around the world! The sad thing is it's thought not to be just kids and it's thought not to be just the local people who are perpetrating the crime. Word has spread and it seems to have become something of a challenge to set fire to the goat. Let's hope this is not what's happening with the Xmas tree. The crime, it has now been decided, is to be labelled both sabotage and arson so a heavy penalty awaits anyone who's caught setting fire to the goat from now on.

Perhaps all of us who are upp and about in the wee small hours can follow Vic's axample and take a peep at the tree now and then. I hope you find the idiots Malcolm!

Abrasive? You, Foxy? Never.

Makes mine boil too. Now, I believe the punishment should fit the crime and this tree has had its lights ripped out. Need I say more?

I'm afraid so Malcolm!

Who's hidden the 'live' button? Finally found the time to have a look at the tree but I can't access 'Live' because I can't find it on the screen.

oops! Sorry! Just found it!

Unfortunately, Pilgrim, I live a long way from the library in Morpeth otherwise it's a book I'd like to hold in my hands. What I particularly like about the digital version is the ability to rapidly search its contents for specific items. I will certainly keep a look out for Hodgson's other works and those of Raines. Thanks for the tip.

An early Christmas present for all those interested in the history of Bedlington!

Yet another academic work that's somehow ended up on the other side of the Atlantic, this time in the library of the University of Toronto. Written and researched by John Hodgson, Vicar of Whelpington, curate of Jarrow with Heworth and secretary to the Antiquarian Society of Newcastle on Tyne, this work was started in 1817 and finally completed and published in 1832 some 15 years later.

Hodgson's A History of Northumberland is published in three volumes and looks at the county of Northumberland from a parochial viewpoint. Volume II, part II (the volume found in U of T's library) covers an area which may be of interest to us - namely the wards of Morpeth with their parishes and chapelries: Meldon, Rivergreen, Longhorsley, Hebburn and Morpeth in the West division, Bothal Ulgham, Woodhorn, Newbigging and Widdrington in the East division and those of Stannington and Horton in the Castle wards.

Hodgson points out that Bedlingtonshire is to him "forbidden territory" belonging as it did at the time to the Chester ward of County Durham and its church not coming under the jurisdiction of the Archdeacon of Northumberland. However - and thankfully - "to fill up the panorama of the deanery of Morpeth" he incudes "a cursory sketch of this antient portion of the patrimony of St Cuthbert" known as Bedlington Parish - and even Netherton gets a mention!

Hodgsons "cursory sketch" covers not only the rectory (as it formerly was), the vicarage (as it became), the Church and its incumbents (including a plate depicting "the Church at Bedlington" viewed, rather unusually, from the east) but also the corn mill, the extent and boundaries of the parish, the population, royal rights, the iron works, lease- holders in the parish, various registers, the rental of the Bishop's lands and the "village" itself.

Just to whet your appetite I can tell you that the history of the church and its incumbents is described from as early as the 13th century, when still a rectory under the spiritual and moral leadership of Master Lambert Germiuin. Hodgson, like so many others, believes that a church existed on the site prior to the Conquest and that this church went on to become the rectory. However, his research was unable to support the theory. The rectory became a vicarage in 1242 when it was appropriated to the prior and convent of Durham - in order to gain the revenues necessary  to complete the ongoing improvements to the church - and its first perpetual vicar, Simon de Derlington, was appointed in 1324.

Reading between the lines, there would appear to have been a certain amount of discontent with a few of the vicars of Bedlington. In 1469 the vicar general of the diocese, on finding the mansion house and other buildings of the vicarage in a state of disrepair and decay, called in the bailiffs to administer the profits of the church thereby removing the administrative powers of the vicar Richard Langcake. langcake resigned shortly after. A similar situation arose some years later in 1489 when the income of vicar Robert Pritchard was sequestered for the same reasons. On a lighter note, vicar Thomas Colmore in 1604 is noted to have been involved in "a process in the consistory court against Ralph Sadler, for bragging of his indecencies in his pots". There is a notion of ambiguity here as to whose indecencies and whose pots are being referred to and neither do we know the type of pot or indescrepancy involved (a reward to those among you who can unravel the mystery)!

That there may have been a smidgeon of hanky-panky with the Church funds may not be so surprising when we read Hodgson's account of the  vicar's income at the time. Hodgson tells us that the vicar of Bedlington received yearly in tithes everything from one "reek penny" per family in lieu of firewood to sixpence per family for each hive of bees at Easter. Christmas would appear to have been the highlight of the vicar's year when he received one hen per household (later converted to sixpence in lieu of the aforementioned hen).

Despite the dismal remunerations the vicars appear to have done a great job in the churchyard for Hodgson describes it as being "kept as trim and orderly as the parterre of a suburban villa: an example of neatness, and of affectionate remembrance for the dead, of which there is a great want of imitation in the church-yards to a considerable distance from both the banks of the Tweed".

This is just one small fragment of what must have been a labour of love for Hodgson. The book contains over 600 pages - every one of them worth reading! If you can't read them all try to at least read that which Hodgson tells us of our beloved town. You'll find it on pages 348 - 369. Of course, Bedlington is mentioned in other places, mainly in the many "pedigrees" of noteworthy families around the county. Of marriage records to judge it would appear that a Bedlington lass was deemed an asset to the family even then!

What's nice about this particular copy is that it has a search facility which enables you to look for every mention of people and places which may be of interest to just you. They are all there: Cambois, West Sleekburn, Blyth and Hartford, the Percy and Deleval families plus hundreds more.

Remember that it's almost 200 years old. The spelling of place names is variable and differs considerably from the spelling of today but you will be able to recognize them. You've had plent of practice Reading HPW's text! As was the practice of the time much of the parochial literature cited by Hodgson is written in Latin. Not being able to read them will in no way detract from the immense pleasure of reading this work. You will find it at:

https://archive.org/details/historyofnortpt202hodguoft

Choose "see other formats". The first 7 pages are empty and text begins on page 8.

ENJOY!

"it seems discussions are on going until next March."

It's what they call "the patient approach" Maggie.

Why do the Words 'mountain' and 'molehill' spring to mind when reading that?

I'm not religious either Mercury but I am both curious and interested in other people and their Culture. Couldn't agree more about the need for education in this area but a better Place to start is by talking to muslims. They'll willingly discuss their belief without trying to force it on you - unlike some Christian Groups who regularly knock on the door.

I can't say I'm disgusted, more disheartened, by the islamophobia that's pervading our society just now but I am "very much afraid" (to quote a regular contributor on this site). Islamophobia is a much bigger threat today than terrorism.

Ah! I see you read the Beano too 3g!

Are you trying to tell me that I should believe that all all Brits are murderers just because a couple of them have been tried and convicted for that crime? I'd better keep that quiet for the Swedish government. They might send me back!

" It's about a religion that's full of hate, advocates violence and is absolutely intolerant of ALL other religions". You have clearly read a different version of the Koran than I - and a billion muslims the World over - have read (in my case albeit a translation). I can agree that it in some ways it advocates violence but only because it advocates corrporal punishment, just as the UK did until the 1950s, and not because it advocates violence for any other reason. However, I've not found any mention of hate anywhere. As for ALL other religions not being tolerated, I'm afraid that's simply not true.

You talk of muslims as though they are all the same. They are not. The islamic religion is devided into two Groups. On the one hand you have the Shia muslims, which make up a grand total of 10 - 15% of the approximately 1½ billion muslims in the World. On the other hand, you have the Sunni muslims, who make up the remaining 85 - 90 %. Both Groups share the same fundamental beliefs and practices. They've managed to agree that there is only one God in their religion and that he shall be called Allah. They've even agreed that Mohammed is his Messenger. Both Groups follow the same 5 basic principles of Islam and they both use the same holy book - the Koran. Here, the likeness stops for when it comes to such things as doctrine and law they haven't quite got their act together and havent yet managed to agree - and probably never will. 

On the subject of doctrine, the Sunni, on the one hand, have come to rely on the practice of the Prophet Mohammed and his teachings just as Christians the World over have come to rely on God and his teachings. The Shia, on the other hand view their ayatollahs as the embodiment of their God on this Earth. These differences have been around for many centuries and had their origins in the dispute over who should step into the Prophet Mohammed's shoes when he died.The Sunni Group won the 'battle' and the Shia Group have been angry ever since. Furthermore, while the Shia believe in the existence of one God only, Allah, the Sunni, respect the difference between individuals when it comes to choosing their God.

On the subject of law, Both Groups are subject to Sharia law. That's logical really as it's based on the Koran and, to a certain extent on the Sunna (a compliment to the Koran). However - and this is a big HOWEVER - both Groups do not interpret Sharia law in the same way! The same Group in different countries can also interpret Sharia in different ways. The same Group in two different Cultures can also interpret Sharia in different ways and even individuals can interpret it in different ways. It is thought that the Shia Group are more fundamental in their interpretation than the Sunni. This is no easy law to apply!!

I think you are mistaken 3g when you say that muslim law function parallel to the legal system in Britain. I assume, maybe wrongly - but then I'm sure you will correct me, that you are referring to the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal (1966). This is not a separate legal system but part and parcel of the British legal system dealing with questions of civil law.

Most muslims belong to the less extreme Sunni Group and live very peaceably as good Citizens in their host country. Isn't it time we stopped tarring every muslim with the same Dirty brush. Instead of talking generally about muslims when talking of terrorists why not just use the terrorist Word? How many procent of the 10% fundamentalists are we talking about here?

" the petition doesn't say refugees it says immigration. Exactly how these two entirely distinct concepts have come to be so comprehensibly conflated is one of those wonders of bleeding-heart liberal left double-think" . I'm having difficulties understanding the same thing with immigrant and terrorist.

Brian, you ask if anyone has Heard of any muslims being outraged at the Deaths in France. I have. Here the muslim Community is one of the largest help groups, dishing out clothes and food to incoming immigrants. Of course, there are those who accuse them of "looking after their own". Simple arithmetic will tell you there can't be that many terrorists. Sure, there will be one or two - to join the throng who've been there for years - but tarring everybody with the same brush is not going to help. There are extremists in all walks of Life: religious fanatics, environmentalists, terrorists and racists - to mention but a few.

Pilgrim, you ask how they finance their journey. Some of them have studied and worked hard och earned their Money in much the same way as you and I. The majority, however have had their journey financed by their parents or grandparents. They have sold Everything they possess to be able to give there younger relatives the chance to, first and formost, SURVIVE and secondly to have a better Life. They choose to live in poverty themselves in order to do this and have a very simple philosophy - "I've had my Life, son. It doesn't matter if I die now. You have your Life ahead of you, but there's no future here". Can you honestly say, that in the same situation, you wouldn't do the same thing?

Where to start? getting people out of their country and into Another without a passport is big business these Days. It's not hard to find someone if you can pay the asking price.

I'm not sure but I Think the vicarage behind St Cuthberts was built long before any of those houses on Burdon Terrace. If you look at the first edition OS map of Bedlington for 1860 there is only one building on the Bishop's Meadow area. Possibly it's the Wharton Arms. The building wasn't there on the Tithe Award map of 1843. It's not until the third edition of the map, dated 1920 that you find any Buildings.

According to the Bedlington Area Character Appraisal of January 2011 para 4.30, www.northumberland.gov.uk,  by 1920  "At the west end, new facilities appeared: the Prince of Wales Picture house opened Close to a new mission room". Maybe it's this mission that Maggie is referring to.

However, I finally found Glebe Row on the second edition OS map, dated 1897. It appears to be a small row of houses running parallel to the main road but immediately behind the houses fronting onto the main Bedlington - Choppington road on the right hand side leaving Bedlington. From the placement of the name it's actually difficult to say just which houses are referred to as Glebe Row, but there is only this small block which has been added since the first edition when Glebe Row wasn't mentioned.

So now we know!