Strikes

[Monsta®]

should a new law be passed to put a lid on these strikes first the post office now b.a and soon the trains and british gas are to go on strike. surely there has to be a limit to strike action! shouldn't they just be thankful they've got a job!

[Malcolm Robinson]

should a new law be passed to put a lid on these strikes first the post office now b.a and soon the trains and british gas are to go on strike. surely there has to be a limit to strike action! shouldn't they just be thankful they've got a job!

That was the olden days monsta, last year!

[Monsta®]

That was the olden days monsta, last year!

what was the olden days?

[Stephen Marshall]

should a new law be passed to put a lid on these strikes first the post office now b.a and soon the trains and british gas are to go on strike. surely there has to be a limit to strike action! shouldn't they just be thankful they've got a job!

I think they should think them selfs lucky they have a job??

This whole BA striks is doin my head in. Unite are goin to ruin that company and send it under. BA Cabin crew and most groung crew are already the highest paid in the industry?? If your contract changes then you should just deal with it or hand your notice in??

I think the government need to step in and put something in place to stop this sort of thing happening?? not sure what tho??

[Malcolm Robinson]

what was the olden days?

The days when reality hit everyone between the eyes and people in jobs took pay cuts to save them. There are now a whole host of strikes planned at a time when we should all be pulling together to get the country through its self inflected financial crisis.

[mercuryg]

I've thought long and hard about this and have made the difficult decision to go on strike myself from tomorrow demanding better pay. I have told myself that I will not return to work until I pay me more money, and i'm off to the pub to form a picket line which I will not permit myself from crossing.

[Malcolm Robinson]

Merc,

I see you have embraced the self employed business philosophy!

[Symptoms]

Of course that evil hag Thatcher (sounds of Symptom's lungs, throat and beak being cleared followed by a rather satisfactory hockle) did emasculate the workers back in the day by introducing all sorts of draconian anti-union laws. I'm ashamed that Labour never attempted any real resistance or ever managed to 'shake-off' the legacy of her high-heeled jackboot from grinding down on the workers' necks. And what legacy did she leave? The death of 'mass employment' and the destruction of communities ... you've only got to read the posts on this Forum about the problems for the Town (industrial dereliction and social degradation) to then trace-back the cause of most of them to the actions of her evil regime.

Generally, strikes are about ultimately SAVING jobs and the current crop that Monsta® refers to follow that honourable goal. Don't be taken-in by the sh*te published in that scum-sucking rag, The Daily Mail (and it's craven fellow travellers); these actions ARE about resisting redundancies.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Symptoms

[threegee]

Of course that evil hag Thatcher (sounds of Symptom's lungs, throat and beak being cleared followed by a rather satisfactory hockle) did emasculate the workers back in the day by introducing all sorts of draconian anti-union laws.

Actually the change to the law put the unions of the same basis of civil law as the rest of us have to obey. Before they'd considered themselves above the law, and in Arthur Scargill's case above the democratically elected government. Arthur's contempt for democracy extended to not even allowing his own members a strike ballot.

I'm ashamed that Labour never attempted any real resistance or ever managed to 'shake-off' the legacy of her high-heeled jackboot from grinding down on the workers' necks. And what legacy did she leave? The death of 'mass employment' and the destruction of communities ... you've only got to read the posts on this Forum about the problems for the Town (industrial dereliction and social degradation) to then trace-back the cause of most of them to the actions of her evil regime.

There's a very good reason why Labour didn't revoke the changes: the Country once again became governable! They were tacitly supported by large sections of the Labour party as well as by the vast majority of the electorate.

And that's not at all true about the Town. The decline had set in decades before Mrs T. The mining industry had become complacent and inefficient under the post-war nationalisation. There was a lack of investment where it mattered, and wages had run a little ahead of what the market would support. Hence it was cheaper to import coal (and opencast it here through private mining companies) than the NCB mine it. Much of the decline here happened under a Labour government - that's the inconvenient truth of it!

Generally, strikes are about ultimately SAVING jobs and the current crop that Monsta® refers to follow that honourable goal. Don't be taken-in by the sh*te published in that scum-sucking rag, The Daily Mail (and it's craven fellow travellers); these actions ARE about resisting redundancies.

Point to any job that a strike has saved? Where is the logic in withdrawing your labour to save your job? What you can do is to bring down your employer, thus losing all the jobs that are available.

[Symptoms]

Blimmey 3Gs, why did I poke my stick into this little bourgeois ants' nest; first out the heap are the soldiers whose task is to repel the system's critics.

Yep, the ruling elite – and they're all the same whatever political party they infest - has never REALLY cared about working men and women. Despite their weasel words these shysters systematically deprived the 'old' industries of support which could have led them to a sustained future; shutting down the mines destroyed not only a huge support industry but with it the world leading expertise it had fostered. It doesn't take a genius to extrapolate what opportunities have been lost in our capacity for research and implementation of clean coal and carbon capture technology as a result of this industrial vandalism. Political spite, the obscene scramble for the short term gain, the personal enrichment of those Tory ministers who had shares in RTZ and other mining conglomerates who ended-up supplying imported coal. Let's just take a moment to hang our heads in shame when we remember loads of the stuff came from the sweated labour of the enslaved black miners of apartheid South Africa.

Clearly, bourgeois ideology can only be effective if the masses blindly internalise it's thrust and automatically adhere to it's standard form of behaviour. This type of ideological imprinting manifests itself in the form of sterotypes of social participation, the purest expression of class collaborationist ideology is the notion of the 'partnership' between capital and labour; in other words the dialogue/relationship between the boss class and the workers. The bougeoisie wants to con people that there are no antagonistic social classes but only social partners who can come to agreements. Trouble is that trade unionism has fallen hook-line-and-sinker for this social contract policy tosh. What employers want is to impose their demands so that they can continue to enrich themselves, whilst squeezing the last juicy drops of pride and resistance from the workers. Show me a 'small businessman' and I'll accuse him of always attempting to fleece the punter and squirm at paying the minimum wage; as for the banking class, well ...! To those who still believe that the workers shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves from this form of political violence there are countless episodes of successful strike action resulting in demands being met, including securing jobs (just do a Google for "successful strikes†as this'll save me from labouring over a long list). The enemies (those growing fat on the tit of the bourgeois cow) of those whose mission it is to protect the poor working men and women need to realise that they won't disappear ... patience is a fine weapon! To quote Rosa Luxemburg: "Capatilism drips blood from every pore, not just at the time of it's birth, but throughout it's advance across the world. In this way, through ever more violent convulsions, capitalism brings about its own downfallâ€.

Of course, the biggest dishonest weeze to control working men and women was the brilliant trick of selling them their own Council houses ... I'll stand back at this point and wait for the usual bleats of complaint from the poor misguided fools who were taken-in by the honour of owing large amounts of money to the banks and building societies ... the morgage shackle frightened the workers into not taking action. The right to buy was a stabilising factor for the existing system.

That old regurgitated chestnut, the lack of a national ballot before the Miners' strike, seems to have been swallowed by those who aren't familiar with the NUM rule book. As it had, and still has, a federal structure, each area voted for action in it's own area. What did for the miners was the behaviour of the bosses poodles (NACODS), that breakaway scum in Nottingham, and the typically timid behaviour of the TUC. For a time it looked as if we were French ... a nation with form for collaboration and cowardice! That dispute could have been settled, and nearly was on two occasions, if solidaritry had held. Let's also put to rest that other bourgeois lie that the NUM were against pit closures; the NUM didn't oppose closures when mines were exhausted.

Come on 3Gs, nobody or group (unless we consider those universal tools of oppression – the cops) was above the law; plenty of folks were 'lifted' for all sorts of spurious reasons. Remember people are still being clubbed, unlawfully kettled, and killed by the boys in blue even today.

Working class resistance is not an outdated or futile concept.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Symptoms

[Malcolm Robinson]

Blimey Sym is that a call to arms brothers and sisters?

While I agree with 'your' conclusion about the Thatcher revolution and populist capitalism in general I have to take issue with your remarks about the 'small businessman'. Fleecing punters and baulking at the minimum wage seems to me you are using the same indoctrinated inflammatory language you accuse GGG of? At its core is a lack of understanding about this subject. I bet quite a few small business people, certainly locally, would like to be paid minimum wage for every hour they work in their businesses. Not only that being apportionatly paid for the extracurricular work they do such as tax collectors would seem only fair? As for 'fleecing punters' well let me know where you can find one selling for MRRP never mind above that figure? Of course they have to make a profit but their selling price is probably more 'controlled' than other divisions with the sector. So I don't think you are right on that score and it is certainly not the easy path to riches you seem to suggest!

As for your last sentence, haven't you missed the point there isn't a working class anymore is there, I thought we were all middle class these days!!!!!!!!!

[Symptoms]

Mal, there is no Middle Class ... it's really just a 'state of mind' which allows those with a superiority complex to look down and sneer on others. Of course it could also be a construct of The Boss Class to tempt or trick others to trample their peers in a stampede to 'succeed' as another means of control. Loads of attempts have been made to define what this so-called group is but none of them convince; perhaps we should start a thread - What is it to be Middle Class? My earlier posts maintain the existance of The Ruling Elite (the Boss Class) and the rest of us (the Working Class) ... you can't get away from that lovely phrase, 'Those who own the means of production'.

[threegee]

... you can't get away from that lovely phrase, 'Those who own the means of production'.

So what exactly does that mean in the 21st century? Suppose I have a software company - what's to stop you competing with me? A computer perhaps; well blow me down but doesn't every kid have one these days, and someone here says you get £500 for one if you are on the dole!

Isn't this Marxist Leninist crap just a supremely outdated excuse for lack of enterprise, envy, and sloth? The world owes us a living comrades; no matter that we can't be arsed to produce anything that anyone needs!

P.S. Sorry for my lack of familiarity with the NUM rulebook. I suppose the miners union that broke away from the NUM around that time thought those rules were transparent and honest too. Did Arthur write them all himself, or did he have a little help from Uncle Joe?

BTW I absolutely agree with you about resistance not being an outdated or futile concept. But there are real enemies of the people out there; you don't have to invent them, or import them from days long past!

[mercuryg]

Somebody has swallowed a copy of The Communist Manifesto, me thinks.

[Malcolm Robinson]

Mal, there is no Middle Class ... it's really just a 'state of mind' which allows those with a superiority complex to look down and sneer on others. Of course it could also be a construct of The Boss Class to tempt or trick others to trample their peers in a stampede to 'succeed' as another means of control. Loads of attempts have been made to define what this so-called group is but none of them convince; perhaps we should start a thread - What is it to be Middle Class? My earlier posts maintain the existance of The Ruling Elite (the Boss Class) and the rest of us (the Working Class) ... you can't get away from that lovely phrase, 'Those who own the means of production'.

Sym, I was just having a sideswipe at what I see as the Thatcher legacy in this respect. Personally I don't like labels; I prefer to judge someone on what they bring to the party not how they dance when they get there.

Interesting point in the recent series Prescott did when he asked single mothers living on state benefits in sink estates which class they belonged to. The ones who replied all said middle class.

[sizsells]

The days when reality hit everyone between the eyes and people in jobs took pay cuts to save them. There are now a whole host of strikes planned at a time when we should all be pulling together to get the country through its self inflected financial crisis.

YES let all the VASTLY OVERPAID footballers bankers chairmen/women of multinationals council leaders etc etc and MP,S to have a rummage in their backpockets (excuse the pun) give some of their millions back to the country...

I wonder how much this strike action will cost B.A ? would,nt it not have more cost effective to have more constructive talks than try to " BULLY" these employees regardless of the apperant fact they are the most highly paid in the industry. its no different than how the miners were treat and the unions are falling for it again and it will end in tears. Time for a bit of reverse physocology methinks

[Stephen Marshall]

YES let all the VASTLY OVERPAID footballers bankers chairmen/women of multinationals council leaders etc etc and MP,S to have a rummage in their backpockets (excuse the pun) give some of their millions back to the country...

I wonder how much this strike action will cost B.A ? would,nt it not have more cost effective to have more constructive talks than try to " BULLY" these employees regardless of the apperant fact they are the most highly paid in the industry. its no different than how the miners were treat and the unions are falling for it again and it will end in tears. Time for a bit of reverse physocology methinks

For the next BA strikes they said they would lose £5.5m per day if the strike went ahead.

[threegee]

100% success for Unite - ALL planes grounded!