Mistakes Were Made.............

[Malcolm Robinson]

Only too right...........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/9600281/Government-lost-key-calculations-on-West-Coast-bid.html

[Adam Hogg]

Sorry to say it, but the railways should be brought back as British Rail and run by the government and not private companies and all items of rolling stock (carriages, engine, etc.) should be built by the state owned industry like before BR was privatised, still let the private companies operate but not own/lease the line.

[Symptoms]

Don't apologise Adam. Just wait for those who inhabit the 'right' to emerge from the dark place on here to argue with you ... then all you have to do is mention the present situation on the East Coast Mainline - that should shut them up!

[keith lockey]

You are right, Adam, Privatisation has a lot to answer to.

[Adam Hogg]

At last people would agree with me, nationalisation should happen. But Symptoms is right the East Coast mainline is state owned and is running at a profit, can't do better then that.

[Malcolm Robinson]

I think there are some things of far more worth to a country than just in monetary terms. The first responsibility of the politocrats is to secure the safety of the people and selling off vital and crucial bits of this country's infrastructure always struck me as dangerous, to say the least. In fact when you are dealing with super rich terrorists and foreign powers the easiest way they can exercise control would be to buy up your privatised infrastructure. In much the same aways the Frogs have done with water and electricity.

We have sold the soul of this country to the Devil for a shiny bright penny……….

Just waiting for GGG's reply now…………..

[Malcolm Robinson]

Mistakes have also been made here it seems.....................that turns the whole of the IMF bailouts into what they are......worthless in any real sense of the word!

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/imf-admits-it-prescribed-wrong-medicine.html

[threegee]

...the railways should be brought back ... like before BR was privatised ... still let the private companies operate but not own/lease the line.

Wow! And, before your back there was private capital which built the railways. It's unlikely we would have had them if it hadn't been for those "capitalist pigs" who put up the money. Many of them backed the wrong horse and lost their money and no one compensated them, but Britain and the industrial revolution always benefited massively. Meanwhile, what did the British state do with all the taxation they raised - some of it generated by the private railways? Ground nuts maybe? But, more likely, it was blown on "the war effort".

One of the fundamental laws of economics: Private individuals and their enterprises generate wealth - governments dissipate/waste it!

Real nice of you allowing "private companies" to play with the state's (stolen) train sets. But, if nationalisation is so bloody good, why can't the state do a better job with the rolling stock? Does not compute!

Maybe you should re-read that article Adam. The dumb mistake was made by the very same civil servants you would have running the whole show. The bill (£40M) for the mistake has to be picked up by the public purse. That's just a low-cost preview of what happens when there's moral hazard involved in running an enterprise - AKA nationalisation.

[threegee]

I think there are some things of far more worth to a country than just in monetary terms. The first responsibility of the politocrats is to secure the safety of the people and selling off vital and crucial bits of this country's infrastructure always struck me as dangerous, to say the least. In fact when you are dealing with super rich terrorists and foreign powers the easiest way they can exercise control would be to buy up your privatised infrastructure. In much the same aways the Frogs have done with water and electricity.

We have sold the soul of this country to the Devil for a shiny bright penny……….

Just waiting for GGG's reply now…………..

National Interest is always a hard one to argue - why politicos always quote it when they've run out of other excuses. What was in the national interest is generally evident only with hindsight, and sometimes not even then. Take the various wars as an examples of that.

I don't object to the French owning chunks of our infrastructure if they think they can run it better - but you know how I love them! After all, we have simply huge overseas investments ourselves, and have often shown the US of A how to do their thing properly.

It becomes highly political when an overseas company is sacking large numbers of British workers and "exporting British jobs", but British companies have done/do exactly the same overseas. It's up to us to get our act together and free up our labour markets again I think. Problem is that there are no longer too many people around that can remember near full employment, and so-called "employment protection" is a political hot potato.

[threegee]

Don't apologise Adam. Just wait for those who inhabit the 'right' to emerge from the dark place on here to argue with you ... then all you have to do is mention the present situation on the East Coast Mainline - that should shut them up!

Having gone off and checked the facts on this one I'd be more than happy to elucidate on the East Coast mainline situation. Before you engage though, please check the official performance figures of the current (and "caretaker") operator against the former regime. The franchise was profitable under National Express too, but with higher customer service levels! And.. the last time I used a National Express train the WiFi was free, not £4.99 and hour!

[Malcolm Robinson]

I think that too dismissive GGG, national interest is in plain sight of anyone with even a smidgen of common sense. Selling off national infrastructure to the highest bidder is not a sensible or cost productive option, it was a political option!

I do agree nationalised industries always tended to be run for the benefit of the laziest workers and also incompetent management. That should have been tackled within the confines of the industries without recourse to privatisations………… and probably would these days.

Nationalised industries should have been exemplars of good practice both in production and also in things like training and security of tenure. Fact was they weren't and in a competitive environment we either had to outrageously subsidise them while instituting deep cultural change or get rid of them out of the public purse. The latter option was chosen politically.

I can't argue the point, do as I say not as I do because 'we' have done exactly what you say overseas and exploited every possible situation. Doesn't make it right though!

At the end of the day the financial sector, as a mainstay of the private sector, has demonstrated for all to see what happens with rampant self-regulatory congenital capitalism, eventually after the greed and graft has been profligate and self-destructive it relies on the public sector as a backstop!

[Symptoms]

Oh dear GGG! As the other wise owl on here (admittedly the one who blinks vigorously when emerging into the bright-light of debate ) you should know better than to rely on "official performance figures" when fighting your rear-guard actions. You'll be proselytising about that model of private enterprise Ryanair next.

I say - Down with the Boss class!

(GGG, as it should be here the above is meant in good spirit and not meant snidely)

[Adam Hogg]

Real nice of you allowing "private companies" to play with the state's (stolen) train sets. But, if nationalisation is so bloody good, why can't the state do a better job with the rolling stock? Does not compute!

Stolen Train sets? BR Made loads of rolling stock steam engines, Diesel engine's and Carriage's Mk1 though to Mk4. Mk4's are now on all private company trains so are they not stolen from BR?

[threegee]

Oh dear GGG! As the other wise owl on here (admittedly the one who blinks vigorously when emerging into the bright-light of debate ) you should know better than to rely on "official performance figures" when fighting your rear-guard actions. You'll be proselytising about that model of private enterprise Ryanair next.

I say - Down with the Boss class!

(GGG, as it should be here the above is meant in good spirit and not meant snidely)

Ryanair is actually a pretty good example of private enterprise and the diversity it throws off. At least when I'm being treated like a sheep I know that I'm not being fleeced as well. When it becomes too unbearable there are more expensive alternatives. Also, there's alignment of interests in that Mick O'Leary is using the same take-it-or-leave-it strategy on my behalf against (often state sponsored) monopolistic suppliers to keep costs down.

People still flock to Ryanair because it is actually what they want from all the real-world alternatives. Not what they say they want, or what they would like to be offered. When it isn't what they want then Ryanair will fail, and there's going to be no rush to pick up the pieces and pour taxpayers money into it.

( Of course! Is there ever anything but good-spirited discussion of the issues on here? Let this be an example to you Boss Class at Westminster! )

[Adam Hogg]

Ryanair is actually a pretty good example of private enterprise and the diversity it throws off. At least when I'm being treated like a sheep I know that I'm not being fleeced as well. When it becomes too unbearable there are more expensive alternatives. Also, there's alignment of interests in that Mick O'Leary is using the same take-it-or-leave-it strategy on my behalf against (often state sponsored) monopolistic suppliers to keep costs down.

People still flock to Ryanair because it is actually what they want from all the real-world alternatives. Not what they say they want, or what they would like to be offered. When it isn't what they want then Ryanair will fail, and there's going to be no rush to pick up the pieces and pour taxpayers money into it.

( Of course! Is there ever anything but good-spirited discussion of the issues on here? Let this be an example to you Boss Class at Westminster! )

Only one reason people use Ryanair and this is why.

[Malcolm Robinson]

This is the Ryanair song....................