Maggie, the point we were making is that EU expansionist plan was not modelled on one mans ideas for world domination. I assume you're referring to Hitler. The creeping plan for the EU to hoover up nations and create this European Superstate, was very influenced by ex-Nazi Industrialists, nothing to do with Hitler. It just happens to be them, whether they saw this as a way of continuing their power in Europe, or as a golden opportunity at a time when Europe was very fragile.

 

Whatever their reasons, they are very dangerous people, check out one of their biggest guns, IG Farben. If things continue in this way, every member nation (apart from Germany & France) will be a slave to the union. Not being allowed to make their own decisions on governance of their own countries.

 

Britain belongs to us, the people and should never be ruled by a foreign power. Maggie, we have to stand up, and be brave enough to stop this from going any further. I make no apology for sounding very patriotic, but I am. I love this country.

Britain belongs to us, the people

 

Thats like quoting the American Dream, both exercises in mass hysterical misdirection!  

I think the Magna Carta quantifies my view.

A yes our glorious original "Bill of Rights".

Whatever it is Malcom, it is still used heavily today In universities where students are studying law. A barrister pointed out to us 2 years ago that apparently it is a very important tool for anyone studying for a law degree.

 

I will never forget his statement that it says; The sovereignty of this country can never be given away to a foreign power. Not by Parliament nor by the Monarchy, only the people of this country can decide upon the sovereignty of it. Anyone other than the people who gives away this sovereignty is guilty of Sedition, which at this level is High Treason.

 

This situation is still in force today as far as I am aware, which begs the question, what have successive governments of this country been doing ever since Ted Heath's time. They have given our sovereignty away piece by piece, so that we now find ourselves in a situation that is going to be difficult to get out of.

 

I think the Tory & Labour party leaders of the past 40 years should hang their heads in shame. They have betrayed us all.

I think the term "sovereignty of this country" is so misconstrued and out of context now to be almost worthless, unless you have a job whose raison d'etre is to add to the ambiguity of course.  

Wow, just suppose our ancestors - who risked and many who lost their lives for this country - could read that cynicism Malc!  It's more than likely that future generations will see it though. To them I'd like to say that I don't think it represents the majority of British people at this time, and certainly not me.

 

Is the EU a plot to get by stealth what couldn't (twice) be got by military domination?  The answer to that all depends on how you define plot.  There's no Bond style cat-stroking villain plotting world domination, and the German bankers aren't saying to themselves which country do we subjugate next.  Nor, like many people on the left actually believe to be the case, do I attribute evil intentions to Bilderberg, though the EU links are undeniably there and quite strong.  What's there is much more subtle, as likely Maggie detects.  It's the expansionism that is in Germanic genes, combined with unenlightened self-interest, further combined with learning the wrong lessons from two world wars.  I suspect a couple of other influences too but won't go into those at this time.  Whatever, it's no less dangerous for being multi-layered, and not wilful militaristic domination.

 

The Ukraine problem is just a tiny foretaste of what is to come. That, I do believe - and there's lots of evidence out there - was deliberately stoked up by Western influences.  By the time the European superstate starts building a military force it's going to be far too late for British, Winston Smith!  We must distance ourselves from all this, hold on to what military capability we still have, and not break our ties with the USA.  We also need to try to undo some of the damage politicos have done to our links with the Commonwealth; not in order to try to wind the clock back though, but in order to fulfil the original intention; it's in the name!  If we can turn the EU back into the Common Market then so much the better, but I don't hold out much hope of that, and we'd be daft to pin anything but the most tenuous hope on meaningful reform.  Cameron is the last person we should trust to even attempt this - well no, the other two dummies would be even worse!

Wow, just suppose our ancestors - who risked and many who lost their lives for this country - could read that cynicism Malc! 

 

Which is exactly my point GGG, the sovereignty talked about in those early documents, probably right up to the 1800's and beyond in some cases, is far and away removed from what is being bandied around here!

Personally I think we do our forefathers, certainly the ones who gave their lives in the expansion of democracy and individual's rights,  a huge disservice by not following up on their heroic actions and programmes.  

I think "our ancestors" would be far more 'unsettled' at what we have allowed to take place and the people dictating the crumbs of democracey which fall from the high tables!  

It's a dammed travesty we don't have their stoicism! 

OK, so I sort of misunderstood you. You are simply pointing at past performance.  I will borrow a few words from present day financial boilerplate text: http://distractionproofadvisor.com/2012/07/past-performance-is-not-an-indicator-of-future-results/.

The good thing is surely to discuss and attempt to understand.

When the major players disagree then it is not and probably never has been easy to distinguish 'Fact from Fiction'

People are hopefully thinking about the underlying issues.

I shy away from opinions that are extreme.

The quote threegee was from a certain comedian who said (at an Amnesty International Show'

'My father was liberal party candidate for Bavaria and he was up against Herman Goring who was standing on 'Vote for me or I will kill you' so his mother took him down to the river and fashioned a boat out of reeds. From then he was brought up by Wolves. Who taught him to fish and play backgammon '

Oh and you cook the fish gas mark five with a few herbs.

Humour is important although some would say not appropriate in a serious topic.

I have been pulled up before on another topic.

Johnny Rotten summed up his view in The Guardian today ... "Ukip are a black hole for the ignorant to fall into."

 

See his video at: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2014/oct/15/john-lydon-russell-brand-revolution-video

 

I said it elsewhere, Johnny is 'The Daddy'.

Johnny is somethign Sym.........

 

 

 

OK, so I sort of misunderstood you. You are simply pointing at past performance.  I will borrow a few words from present day financial boilerplate text: http://distractionproofadvisor.com/2012/07/past-performance-is-not-an-indicator-of-future-results/.

 

....well it was Magna Carta that started me off GGG.    

Mal - as you know, I reckon everbody sells out at some stage, even 'The Daddy'.

Johnny Rotten summed up his view in The Guardian today ... "Ukip are a black hole for the ignorant to fall into."

 

See his video at: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2014/oct/15/john-lydon-russell-brand-revolution-video

 

I said it elsewhere, Johnny is 'The Daddy'.

 

I will have half of Russell Brand and half of Johnny Rotten then, but the opposite halves from the terminally stupid Polly Toynbee.  You really have got to get out more than reading Guardian drivel Sym!

 

BTW Johnny hadn't even heard of UKIP until Toynbee advised him they were a party that didn't have a red rosette on the package.  He has no idea about policies either way - just a typical dumb tribal Labour voter really. 

Tonight Symptoms you will need your Spitfire.

Oops missed the photo

Mal, I used The Magna Carta only as a salient point that it is still taught in law schools as the foundation of our democracy. Without sovereignty, and a constitution to protect it you have nothing.

 

What we see now are career politicians steeped in corruption, telling us that they are looking after our interests, while selling our country to build their Golden Palaces.

People are hopefully thinking about the underlying issues.

I shy away from opinions that are extreme.

 

The problem is to think about the issues that underly those underlying issues. If you don't do that then you don't appreciate how you are being manipulated.  It's a game of chess, and if you don't see at least as many moves in advance as your opponent you are screwed right from the very first move.  My guess is that with rising educational standards (though people don't actually have much more knowledge than their parents, and in some cases have lost valuable knowledge) they can at least think one more move in advance, because life is now demanding that. That extra move is what will do for the liberal elites, because they really haven't seen as far as they think they have.

 

What do you mean by extreme?  Could that simply mean thinking outside the box (an expression I'd normally cringe at)?

Mal, I used The Magna Carta only as a salient point that it is still taught in law schools as the foundation of our democracy. Without sovereignty, and a constitution to protect it you have nothing.

 

What we see now are career politicians steeped in corruption, telling us that they are looking after our interests, while selling our country to build their Golden Palaces.

 

Absolutely agree with your second sentence Willy but I have a bit of a problem with the word "constitution” in your first one.

 

Maybe someone can point me in the direction of the "Constitution of the United Kingdom” so I can have a read through! 

 

I do think we should have one by the way because as you say without one we have no dammed rights only those which our betters allow us to have in a smoke and mirrors exercise to keep them wrapped up in power.  

I have a copy of 'A Laymans Guide To The Constitution', I know it sounds a little boring but I found it a cracking read. I will give it to Foxy to pass on to you.

 

It isn't a great big book, more a booklet, where the author puts everything in a nutshell, Even a thicko like me can understand it.

Cheers, look forward to it Willy.  

Look forward to your thoughts on the constitution.

You read it and then we do not need to read or buy

Is that how you did your homework then Maggie!  

No it's a quote from the 'Pub Landlord'

Good idea though.

I was far too conservative as a kid but don't tell anyone !