Latest survey

[Tonyp]

Latest survey out Immigrants pay more tax than they receive benefits,what the government should do

Is cut the benefits of the people who have been signing on for 10 years or more.....

[John Fox (foxy)]

Did the survey include both Legal and Illegal immigrants? 

[Tonyp]

Foxy it must be legal,I'm against illegal immigrants coming here,that should be dealt with & they should be deported straight

Away but you can't stop freedom of movement you could go anywhere in Europe in the seventies how many builders went

To Germany for work! They went there because the money was better simple as polish people were here in the 2nd world war

Flying spitfires & many of them died wearing british uniforms at mount casino people have got short memories when it suits

[threegee]

Latest survey out Immigrants pay more tax than they receive benefits...

 

No it doesn't!  The report says that immigrants cost us £113,400,000,000 a year.

 

But, it's dressed up to look like EU immigration good (by a mere £4,400,000,000) in order to make a case for the liberal-elitist view - the people who do our thinking for us!

 

The report also takes a very simplistic view of things - well, we are simple people so we couldn't handle anything too complicated.  It completely fails to acknowledge the huge welfare cost to the indigenous population of EU immigrants filling jobs that they'd otherwise occupy, and takes no account of any accompanying dependants.  More tellingly it takes no account of the social costs that accompany the immigration. Sure, if you depress wages of all the lower paid (which in truth is what it is all about), and make them work harder for less there's a benefit to the economy, but long term that benefits no one in our society.

 

You'll see a lot more of this establishment propaganda in the lead up to a referendum. Just remember where it is coming from, and don't be fooled into believing that the EU has anything at all to do with economics. The EU isn't justified on economic grounds in continental Europe; it's idiotically presented as the sole reason Europe hasn't had any more wars.  The political classes devote their time to telling their electorates only what they want them to hear, and their message is regularly skewed to suit the particular audience.

[threegee]

...

Away but you can't stop freedom of movement you could go anywhere in Europe in the seventies how many builders went

To Germany for work! They went there because the money was better simple as polish people were here in the 2nd world war

Flying spitfires & many of them died wearing british uniforms at mount casino people have got short memories when it suits

 

Wow, your liberal-elitist thought controllers have pulled a neat trick there Tony!  They've pulled the patriotism card for you to marvel at whilst (under the table) selling their own country out at every single opportunity.

 

We took those Poles in (including a hand full of pilots, much publicised for state propaganda purposes) because it was mutually convenient.  Some of them stayed, and good for them.  I know one; he's a great guy and he used to live in Bedlington.  But Poles never came here in such numbers as anyone ever noticed.  Like most migrations in our long history it was controlled and benefited everyone.  This time it's entirely different.  This time it's social engineering on a grand scale by an overclass.  It's the exact opposite of the "ethnic cleansing" that went on in Nazi Germany and more recently in the Balkans, but it's equally despicable.  No one is being slaughtered yet, only our culture and our very identity as a nation.  It's being done for entirely political purposes:

 

Mandelson, together with the ruthlessly ambitious young men and women who would subsequently form the nucleus of New Labour in the mid-Nineties, concluded that if they could no longer take the support of the white working class for granted, they would have to import a new working class from overseas.

 

Yet they have always denied that the mass immigration unleashed after Tony Blair's 1997 landslide was a deliberate policy driven by naked political self-interest.

 

Until now, that is.

 

In an extraordinary and unexpected moment of candour, Mandelson himself confessed this week that Labour 'sent out search parties' for immigrants.

 

He told the Blairite think-tank Progress: 'In 2004, as a Labour government, we were not only welcoming people to come into this country to work, we were sending out search parties for people and encouraging them.'

 

He added: 'The situation is different now . . . entry to the labour market of many people of non-British origin is hard for people who are finding it very difficult to find jobs [and] who find it hard to keep jobs.'

 

It was an astonishing admission, the first time someone at the very heart of the New Labour project has confirmed that Britain's border controls were cynically dismantled.

 

When former Labour adviser Andrew Neather said three years ago that mass immigration was a ploy intended to 'rub the Right's nose in diversity' his claims were categorically rebutted by Labour leaders.

 

Mass immigration was never once mentioned in any Labour manifesto. No one voted for it.

A policy which was to change the face of Britain irrevocably was smuggled in under the radar purely for long-term electoral and short-term economic advantage.

 

The assumption was that the new arrivals would all become naturalised and return the favour by voting Labour.

The party's new friends in the business world, meanwhile, would benefit from an endless supply of willing foreign workers prepared to accept low wages.

 

So it was that Tony Blair's victory ushered in the greatest mass migration in this country's history.

 

The most outrageous Left-wing lie is that Britain has always been a 'nation of immigrants'. This is arrant nonsense. Between the Norman Conquest in 1066 and 1950, immigration was virtually non-existent, save for a few thousand Jews and Huguenots fleeing persecution in Europe.

 

It began to rise when the government opened the door to Commonwealth citizens to help rebuild the post-war economy and run essential public services, such as transport and the National Health Service.

 

But as recently as the early Nineties, net migration stood at around only 40,000 a year, statistically insignificant. After Labour came to power, more people moved to Britain than in the entire previous millennium.

 

Figures released this week show that one in eight of the population, 7.5 million people, is an immigrant.

Half of them arrived in the decade up to 2011.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2326352/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Peter-Mandelson-admits-Labour-brought-migrants-losing-working-class-votes.html#ixzz3IIX50U6K

 

[threegee]

...you could go anywhere in Europe in the seventies how many builders went

To Germany for work! ...

Oh, and it's Auf Wiedersehen, Pet to that bald assertion too! The EU Free Movement of Citizens Directive came into effect in April 2004! Those British brickies had to get permits to prevent German workers being displaced - just like we want to introduce, but now can't.

And... as for the totally worthless promises by the overclass that we'll get a referendum when there's a change to our national rights or interests: guess what? Yes, on November 1st there was yet another major change to our status in the EU. All part of the subliminally creeping superstate that is the Fourth Reich.

[Tonyp]

Why did they go to Germany for one thing Ggg MONEY as for Nigel what type of audience does he reach

[Maggie/915]

Read, listen but make up your own mind.

Who Gains!

When given any news Local or National think for yourself.

The same goes for any gossip.

[Tonyp]

On that note Maggie I actually agree with you

[Malcolm Robinson]

Coz its sense Tony...........but then you spoil it by introducing politics............

[Tonyp]

Malcolm wasn't rabbiting on about politics just stating a fact I think 3gs went on a rant not me

[threegee]

This is the Ukip response: http://www.ukip.org/ukip_migration_spokesman_steven_woolfe_responds_to_ucl_report

I think it's milder than most Kippers would have liked, but it does point out the obvious flaws, and the fact that the report is so narrow as to be meaningless (except for the required political purposes).

 

It might have pointed out that UCL is financed by the EU, and that their German and Italian academics have a record of silly predictions. They were responsible for the dumb prediction that there'd be only 13K or so people moving from the new EU members; the numbers which the politicos now use as their excuse for getting things so very wrong!

 

Even in the case of cherry-picked top earners what we are looking at is peak earning years for people who are relatively fit.  The true social costs aren't apparent unless you consider whole-lifetime costs.  That's way beyond the time horizons of politicos who will happily leave future generations with major problems in exchange for short-term electoral gains.

[threegee]

Malcolm wasn't rabbiting on about politics just stating a fact I think 3gs went on a rant not me

 

Reasoning isn't rant Tony.   Your "stating a fact" deserves closer examination.  Being spoon-fed "facts" is for young kids who have no experience of the real world - you have lots!  I'm inviting you to test my ideas so that I can learn from you and from others.

 

Expose what you believe to the examination of others so that we can all get at the real truth.  Accept that others can often have more insight than yourself, and try to learn from them.  That's how our society has progressed, and why we are no longer living in the stone-age, where things were settled by whoever had the largest club!

 

The alternative is unreasoning tribal loyalty to people with feet of clay - tribes get to live in mud huts!

[Symptoms]

I'm waiting for the suggestion that if the unemployed indigenous population was forced to get out of their pits in the morning then marched to the fields to pick the cabbages and sprouts there'd be no low paid work available for the hordes of Eastern Europeans to take.  Obviously, "fields to pick the cabbages and sprouts" is code for all those menial jobs taken by the visitors.  Anyway, that solves the question of why do they let in all those Rumanians to nick our jobs and houses.

 

Next, the problem of illegals, wherever they come from.  A simple solution would be to have an impervious border policed by a 'fit for purpose' Border Force.

 

Next, that old chestnut, benefits.  It's not rocket science to enforce the existing recipocity rules and restrictions, thus creating the reality (not a hate myth spouted by The Daily Hate) that even those with a nasty axe to grind would have to accept was fair.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Symptoms

[threegee]

Sounds just like where we'd have been heading with Arthur Scargill's Stalinist state Sym.

 

Illegals are highly motivated and innovative; customs officers have no incentives, and maybe just a faint vested interest in illegal immigration being a continuing problem which needs ever more money.

 

On benefits, sure the issue is being exploited for political purposes, but that's because working people feel strongly about misuse of their tax money.  Whatever the extent of the problem at the moment the history of these things follows human nature, and is a one-way-street.  By the time the politicos have recognised and admitted their mistakes problems are generally way beyond reasonable solutions, and they've passed the buck to the next lot.

 

Back to the UCL report: a little more digging reveals that UCL took £52M in funding directly from the EU in the most recent accounts.  I wonder how much authority anyone would ascribe to a report on the effects of smoking funded by the tobacco industry?  As it is they should hand the money back - they've totally failed to provide the message that their paymasters required of them.  I suspect that if you dig back we'd find that their report forecasting those now laughable 13,000 immigrants was also EU funded.

[Tonyp]

Why doesn't the working class people snitch on the people who are fiddling getting cash in hand still getting there dole money & drinking 5 days a week at a local, cos they think that's alright I don't, the the tax payers don't you know it goes on ...will it did .. when I

Lived in bedlington if you want me to I could name & shame them.....

[Maggie/915]

Why don't the rich pay their fair share?

We have tried the 'name and shame ' with politicians .

Secret is the rich have money to work around any system with a little help from the odd lawyer.

[John Fox (foxy)]

if you want me to I could name & shame them.....

No need for the Nazi's to pull your toe nails out before you squeal then. 

[Tonyp]

So what you saying foxy ukip aren't nazis or it's alright cos your from bedlington to fiddle your either in it or your not you either pay tax or you don't plenty of sprouts need picking for Xmas .. Guesses it's ok the Romanians will do it for you..

[Tonyp]

Maggie why do people get rich ?? It's called enterprise & using your brain not feeling sorry for yourself & blaming everybody else.........

[John Fox (foxy)]

So what you saying foxy ukip aren't nazis or it's alright cos your from bedlington to fiddle your either in it or your not you either pay tax or you don't plenty of sprouts need picking for Xmas .. Guesses it's ok the Romanians will do it for you..

Tony,

               do you always talk rubbish or is it only on Special Occasions? 

[threegee]

Why don't the rich pay their fair share?

We have tried the 'name and shame ' with politicians .

Secret is the rich have money to work around any system with a little help from the odd lawyer.

 

OK Maggie, define rich?  What figure have you in mind, and is it income per annum you are factoring, or just total capital assets?  If you can't (or won't) put a figure to it then that word has no real meaning.  By your grandparents standards it's likely you are very rich.

 

Of course "the rich" would say that they pay more than their fair share, and likely have the tax documents to prove it.  It's just not the sort of thing anyone would want to boast about, partly because the left is so woolly and accusative on wealth (many would say for very good reason).

 

Lawyers are the system. Haven't you noticed?  Please show me a poor lawyer who's been at law for any length of time, whatever their stated politics.

[Tonyp]

Don't think I'm talking rubbish you made the comment about squealing ??? Why should people get away with fiddling I know it's

Wrong & so do you.. By the way I never snitched on anybody in my life I've actually tried to save people's jobs who have been

Snitched on..but I also know fiddling is wrong...

[Maggie/915]

It is said we cannot avoid 'Taxes and Death'

Nevertheless each week we read or hear about another scheme that avoids our tax system.

Everything from off shore accounts to corporate headquarters that can move easily and quickly from country to country.

Depending on tax breaks.

Bankruptcy or liquidation, even in our town , appears to favour certain schemes and individuals.

Land banking seems to have stalled development on sites in the Market Place.

Income per annum and total assets can be held in limited companies.

Bonus payments and profits can , it seems , be manipulated.

Defining 'Rich' or putting a figure on creative accounting is not possible.

As tonyp points out there are points at which the 'Poor' try to beat the system.

Your last statement threegee gives another viewpoint.

We should all become lawyers maybe.

The Grandparent argument is an interesting one.

My Grandparents were 'Rich' in having good neighbours and a decent way of life.

They believed the benefit system to be 'Charity' and you did everything in your power to be independent.

[Symptoms]

There's nothing wrong with the state of being wealthy (or rich);  my concern is the route taken to garner the loot (a word delibrately chosen to hint at the means of achieving wealth).  Forget the so-called 'old money' class in this arguement as most of their loot was gained on the back 17 to 19 century trade (code for the slave trade) and land grabs.  Concentrate on the 'new money' class;  with a few notable exceptions, their route map and compass is labled GREED.