Cameron is Frit!

[threegee]

It's not very often that the logic of both Miliband and Clegg is compelling, but when it matches your own thoughts then eggs is surely eggs.  I'm talking about cast-iron-promise Dave's refusal to take part in public debate because the Greens aren't included (yet, this time he is being forced to face Ukip's questions).

 

"Cut the green crap" Dave!  No one believes for an instant that you rate communism with plants as a serious proposition in any seat which doesn't suffer from a vast oversupply of latter-day hippies.  This is an excuse as overwhelmingly lame as Labour's we can't discuss the EU because we need to focus on the economy (our tiny minds can only ever consider one thing at a time, and we can't see any possible connection).

 

Secretly both Miliband and Clegg are delighted they can shift the blame onto frit Dave - neither wants to face the compelling proposition of running our country for the benefit of all the people in it - but that's politics folks! Tories and ex-Tories, who have a better measure of Dave than most, have already told us that this is exactly the kind of pathetic excuse Dave will surely use to wriggle out of his promise of allowing the British people to freely decide on their future - wriggle-out for the third time!  Those people's concerns about Cameron are genuine, and you'd be a fool to believe a word he says.

[Tonyp]

Ggg Labour will win the next election but it will not be outright victory they will have to get the help from Nicola because

they will definitely sweep the board in Scotland. Your mob might get a few seats from Cleggies mob & a few more from the leafy

suburbs of Essex or Kent...

[threegee]

Ggg Labour will win the next election but it will not be outright victory they will have to get the help from Nicola because

they will definitely sweep the board in Scotland. Your mob might get a few seats from Cleggies mob & a few more from the leafy

suburbs of Essex or Kent...

 

So.. on your reckoning Labour will be nominally in charge but the Scot Nats will be in the driving seat and bleeding the rest of the UK even more than they are now.  Oil revenues have more than halved since Salmond was salivating over spending all of them whilst having the UK stand as guarantor for his debt, so any nationalist with an ounce of sense will be thanking their lucky stars that they lost their referendum.  Now best strategy is to let the rest of the UK take the revenue hit whilst holding a hand out for more more more!

 

Miliband and Balls will be in no position to refuse; so what a miserable prospect for the whole country. A re-run of the Gordo saga: hold on to power whatever burden you inflict on the nation.  Having bankrupt our children and children's children by running up future liabilities, M&B will proceed to bankrupt the present generation by trashing the current account too!  Tony, name me one Labour government in history that hasn't ended in total economic mess, and left the country economically far worse off than when it took power?

 

Blair got away with this by pretending that  Labour had turned a new leaf - New Labour; "things can only get better".  This time there's not even that pretence; it's pretty tired old Labour, with absolutely nothing new to say.  Same old state socialism (with a nod to Thatcherism and the market), same old economic mess.  In less than a year this will be apparent to even the most tribal Labour voter, and we'll all have to suffer a full four further years of muddle, lost opportunity, and being bled dry by both the EU and Scotland!

 

"a few seats" eh? The party that was being mocked for having no MPs now represents this country in Brussels, and has won half of the recent parliamentary elections. In the other half it ran both Tory and Labour so close that they are still in shock!  In Labour's seat it was Tory voters who kept them in power!  Carry on with your sloped playing field; carry on with the out of date boundaries; carry on with the postal vote fraud; carry on with lowering the voting age to hook in kids you can easily fool; leave the flood gates open to always grateful first-generation immigrants - none of this gerrymandering alters the fact that your elites are drinking in the last chance saloon.  Ukip won't form a government this time around, but the sights are firmly set on 2020 when popular democracy will be restored to this country after two generations absence!  If your LibLabCon elitists want to believe that Ukip is another SDP then they're welcome to yet another of those illusions.  The bright thing to do is to join the people's party and help mould policy.

[Tonyp]

It goes to show how stupid people are that vote for a party to represent you in Europe that don't want to be init

[threegee]

Do you want to be in'it?  If so PLEASE explain exactly why?

 

People voted to put Ukip in Brussels to send a message to LibLabCon that they don't trust them, and they don't trust the failing EU either. When the elites (who you tug your forelock to) conspire not to give our people a choice they send a party to Brussels to tell them all to go hang!  Here's us doing it:-

 

It's really very simple, your union needs to tell puppet leader Miliband to stop ducking the issue and give the public a referendum on whether they want to be in a European superstate or not. Labour started as a democratic party with magnificent intentions, but has now completely lost touch with its democratic roots. It is now about power for power's sake, and keeping the gravy train rolling.  Labour no longer has any relevance to anyone in this town or anything in it. This was thoroughly proven in the last round of LibLabCon musical chairs.  Lavery is a shill for the ruling elites - whether he realises this or not - you decide. He's an elitist joke, just like Dennis Skinner has become; Skinner's heckling has now been institutionalised, like other "discordant" events in the distant past - that's how you nullify them. Electing Lavery disenfranchises everyone in this town - we all become that joke!.

 

LibLabCon is all about manipulating things to keep the Westminster elite in power.  A political game to keep people who don't really believe in democracy in cushy jobs, and provide a retirement path for them into copious non-jobs in Brussels.  Labour and Tory have already packed the House of Lords past overflow with "jobs" for life - eighty quid every morning just for signing in, then slope off to find something which pays better before lunch at the club. Us mugs struggling to pay our mortgages, or even put food on the table, pay for all the junketing and non-jobs!

 

Old Labour wanted to abolish the House of Lords; New Labour has packed it out with cronies no company will give a directorship to because they couldn't run a proverbial in a brewery; and that's before I get on to the Commons, Quangos, Parliamentary Committees, Public Trusts, etc. and the above all the EU..!

 

Mini revolution coming Tony, just like at the start of the last century.  The more people discover about how things really work the sooner this will happen. You are either with the good guys or with the bad guys.

[Malcolm Robinson]

Tonyp...........

[tomtom]

Sorry tonyp but the May election will almost certainly end up as a hung parliament but with Cameron and Farage  doing 'a deal' to keep the  Tories in power. No one in their right mind can claim that the country is not doing better than it was - with unemployment falling and more people in work than ever - we're the most productive country in Europe - France is the sick man and Germany is faltering. God help us all is by some small chance the Labour party are able to take power - we'll soon end up bankrupt again.

[Tonyp]

Tomtom,

What sort of deal do you think the Tories will offer the broker??? Where do you think the money has come from for this turnaround in

the countries fortunes. Mostly from the welfare cuts & I don't mean the dole,it's come from the selling of our assets this time the royal

Mail cutting back on the national health,education the list goes on if they get in next time God knows what will happen more zero

hour contracts it could get even worse..everybody tries to blame the last government but it was a worldwide meltdown.An easyway to

stop people from the rest of Europe coming here is to make the minimum wage the same in all eu countries,that would stop loads thinking of coming here..some countries pay £2.50 ph we pay £6.55ph but both of these amounts are s***...If we come out of the

Eu what sort of prouduct can England of the rest of the world & who could we trade with....Malcolm didn't get that kettle & pot thing..

[Symptoms]

Aye!  A land of full-employment.  Maybe somebody should collate data about the ever-increasing numbers of those on zero hours contracts, or three jobs to make ends meet, or the zombie jobs.  Welcome to modern Blighty.

[threegee]

Tomtom,

What sort of deal do you think the Tories will offer the broker??? Where do you think the money has come from for this turnaround in

the countries fortunes. Mostly from the welfare cuts & I don't mean the dole,it's come from the selling of our assets this time the royal

Mail cutting back on the national health,education the list goes on if they get in next time God knows what will happen more zero

hour contracts it could get even worse..everybody tries to blame the last government but it was a worldwide meltdown.An easyway to

stop people from the rest of Europe coming here is to make the minimum wage the same in all eu countries,that would stop loads thinking of coming here..some countries pay £2.50 ph we pay £6.55ph but both of these amounts are s***...If we come out of the

Eu what sort of prouduct can England of the rest of the world & who could we trade with....Malcolm didn't get that kettle & pot thing..

 

What sort of deal do you think the Tories will offer the broker???

They won't, they'll be in no position to dictate terms because Ukip simply isn't going to keep a Tory government in power unconditionally like the Lib Dems have.  There may be a "supply and confidence" deal providing we get a referendum on the EU straight away, and not after Cameron has had time to stack the deck.  Getting this country back on its feet implies giving the requisite two years notice to the EU, and the sooner that happens the better.  Once our notice is in then whoever is tasked with negotiating will have a much stronger hand - it's quite likely we'll be offered associate membership on very favourable terms.  All the trade, without any of the political crap.

 

Where do you think the money has come from for this turnaround in the countries fortunes.

Not everything is about handouts or robbing Peter to pay Paul.  In fact we are much deeper in debt that when Brown left office. What the politicos are talking about is the rate at which the debt is increasing.  They are not very keen to explain this though, so they refer to the rate of increase as the deficit, not the actual debt itself.  Yes, none of us could get that past our bank manager for one second, but (with very few exceptions) all governments are heavily borrowed - mainly because they can, and because it's a very easy way to buy votes.

 

There is no additional money, just a bit more confidence in the minds of those we borrow from that somehow we'll be able to repay when the crunch comes.  That increase in confidence means we are borrowing at record low rates, and far less than most other countries.  Not having to pay so much interest means we can service the debt and less taxpayers money needs to be channelled in that direction. Overseas investors are happier to hold pounds and not swap them for something more risky, so the value of Sterling goes up.  The way to blow the whole thing, and to go back into crisis, is to start spending like there is no tomorrow once again.

 

Balls knows all this and with typical duplicity is telling the markets that he's going to be very responsible, and in fact might have to cut back spending more than the Tories.  But, he's trying to give the opposite impression to the electorate.  If you analyse his LPC speech he's actually proposing bigger NHS cuts than the Tories, but the idiots at conference (those who weren't actually asleep) were applauding this. If you doubt this I can point you at an apolitical analysis of his proposals.

 

Mostly from the welfare cuts & I don't mean the dole,it's come from the selling of our assets this time the royal Mail cutting back on the national health,education the list goes on if they get in next time God knows what will happen more zero hour contracts it could get even worse..everybody tries to blame the last government but it was a worldwide meltdown.

 

Hmm.. as I said there is no new money.  Remember that it was Labour who introduced the private sector into the NHS.  In principal some of it made sense, but they completely botched PFI and landed the NHS with huge debts that it now has to pay out of current income - money that should have been available for treating patients. Once again I can go into detail if you doubt this.

Woah, we are back to Gordo's "it's a global problem"!  That's far too simplistic.  Yes, there was a global turn-down (there's an argument that it started right here with the stupidity at Northern Rock). But, Gordo brainwashed himself into the idea that the good times were bad times, and that everything would come right in the end.  Economists were telling him for years that he'd misread the economic cycle, and that he shouldn't be spending on the assumption that revenues would increase to cover it.

 

We'd settled into a fairly regular 11 year economic cycle, but Gordo kept repeatedly adding a year to the official forecasts.  He simply wouldn't accept that he'd completely misread the charts.  He lectured in economics at a crappy polytechnic, and arrogantly thought that he knew better than hundreds of top-flight economists who constantly analysed all the figures on banks of computers.  It was the classic Nick Leeson story: a guy who'd made the wrong call, and, rather than come clean at an early stage to limit the damage, sailed on with the hope that it would all come right on the next move - and so completely bust the bank!  In part he caused that global problem!  A decent chancellor should have been comparing notes with others, and counselling caution, not junketing around the world boasting that he'd "ended boom and bust"!

 

An easyway to stop people from the rest of Europe coming here is to make the minimum wage the same in all eu countries,that would stop loads thinking of coming here..some countries pay £2.50 ph we pay £6.55ph but both of these amounts are s***...If we come out of the Eu what sort of prouduct can England of the rest of the world & who could we trade with....Malcolm didn't get that kettle & pot thing..

 

You going to nip over to Romania or Greece or... and tell the PM that they should hike their minimum wage three or four times Tony?  They'll say that's brilliant, please leave your cheque for a squillion of your Breetish pounds on the table as you leave to pay for this. The Euro's too dodgy as we are figuring out how best to hit the Germans in the pocket when we abandon it one Friday night after foreign bankers have left for their luxury villas. No one told us that the Germans would be running our country and telling us what to do, and - as our parents told us - you magnificent Breetish don't do that!

 

Ah, the our economy depends on the EU argument!  No it bloomin' doesn't! Our little island didn't get to be the most successful trading nation on the planet by shelling out a significant proportion of our GDP to Europe.  The EU accounts for an ever-decreasing portion of our exports, and we buy significantly more from them than they buy from us. Did you notice an increase in trade or in jobs when we joined?

 

But, here's the really interesting bit that LibLabCon won't tell you (or they will once the British people have presented them with a firm Brexit instruction):  the EU treaties require the EU to negotiate trade agreements on favourable terms with any member who gives the requisite to years notice of leaving.  As they have more to lose from a lousy deal than we have, it's near certain that trade-wise things will continue pretty much as they did before.  But, we will be freed from the crippling and continuing demands for more money to prop up the failing EU, and we will be free to negotiate trade agreements outside the EU on any terms that suit us.  Economists who have looked at this dispassionately and worst-case (certainly not the EU funded LSE!) calculate that we will take a small hit in the first year; so small that it likely will go unnoticed. But, from the second year onward we'll be boosting our trade worldwide as we get our act together. From then on the sky's the limit for an independent UK, and your union buddies can start demanding more money!

[threegee]

Aye!  A land of full-employment.  Maybe somebody should collate data about the ever-increasing numbers of those on zero hours contracts, or three jobs to make ends meet, or the zombie jobs.  Welcome to modern Blighty.

 

There's still bad youth unemployment, so why ignore that and focus on zero hour contracts - people who are at least on the first step of the employment ladder?  OK, so it makes a good doctrinaire political point, but back in the real world where compromises are generally required...

Is it a coincidence that youth unemployment now just about matches the number of jobs being filled by immigrants from the EU?  A high proportion of the EU'ers earnings is spirited out of the country straight away, and completely lost to the economy, whist every quid of UB has to be funded by the UK tax payer.

 

The EU'ers earnings have to be offset by export earnings in ever-more-competitive (and now deflationary) international markets. The immigrant rate is accelerating, and there's nothing Gov-UK can do about it but pray that the EU won't go completely down the plughole.  Another politico's social engineering experiment going rapidly TU!

[Tonyp]

Tomtom i go to Greece quite a lot my Duaghter is married to Greek my grandson is half Greek one of my best friends is Romanian

& most of the people I've spoke to from the respective countries didn't want to be in it. When good old Blighty was a successful trading nation don't you men colonial rule robbing from everybody else that had wealth & there people of course? Who's living in the past...

[Malcolm Robinson]

Malcolm didn't get that kettle & pot thing........................................ It goes to show how stupid people are that vote for a party to represent you in Europe that don't want to be init.................................................Really Tonyp?

[Tonyp]

Malcolm,I was making the comment that there is disgruntled people from every nation my Romanian friend liked Cimminescu don't know if I've spelt that right,never mind what I'm saying is everybody has an opinion he wants to go back to communist rule & he blames

the Romanian Gypsies for giving his people a bad name. Do I agree with him,NO but it's his point of you,do I have members in our union who don't vote labour YES it's there choice do I want to stay in the United States of Europe YES ..on the job front if people

from bedders want a job there's loads down hear. It might not be what you want but you'd definitely get one within 2 weeks max it would

Be better than feeling sorry for yourself,""Malcolm !" As Ted Rogers would say come on down & don't forget the cat....

[Malcolm Robinson]

Tony.....

[Malcolm Robinson]

Sorry about that,it is the only way I get grammatical spacings!

[Malcolm Robinson]

Tonyp,

Deflation and a falling oil price the Colt Peacemaker of today. …………............. ("God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal.”)

[Tonyp]

Malcolm I know that that's what I said to my mate & I told him the guy in charge does the same as Ceausescu, I also said everybody should

Get a vote. The Scottish /ukip might come from the Bearsden,Bishopbriggs area of Glasgow God forbid, by the way I knew you were

Working. The punt was made at the people who want a job & say there isn't any. By the way it's election year fill your car up while you

can....

[Tonyp]

I stutter?????.

[threegee]

[Adam Hogg]

Well threegee it will not be the first time the BBC have done something like this.

 

But remember who won

[threegee]

Who is ordering the blancmange?  They're calling Dave's bluff! 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11455163/TV-election-debates-will-go-ahead-as-broadcasters-threaten-to-empty-chair-David-Cameron.html

 

He's getting off the hook with directly facing Nigel Farage though.  But, the establishment media are likely more than happy to conceded that one.