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Cameron -v- Miliband (Sky and C4)

threegee

By threegee
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threegee

threegee

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There's a very good reason why the representative public panel judged Cameron had won the "Leaders Debate" by 5:1 (and other public polls came to similar conclusions) - yet, straight after the event the media decided that overall Miliband had edged it.  It's very simple: the media were looking at presentation, nuance, and who faked sincerity better, whilst the public were actually listening to what was said.

Cameron was his usual smoothie self, and did what he was always going to do - present himself as a safe pair of hands to complete the recovery. It wasn't impressive, and we know that when his lips move it generally indicates he's lying.  He'd obviously not put much time into rehearsing either - such is the job of being PM.

On the other hand Miliband was super rehearsed. That didn't prevent two of his answers being genuinely disturbing.  Firstly, when a member of the public asked him about the EU, any pretence to democracy went right out of the window. He believes his voters are stupid enough to be fooled by the "if there are any major changes we'll have a referendum" crap, but then practically tells us that he'll never ever allow one whatever. This goes over the heads of the Eurocentric media that's bought and paid for by the EU, but intelligent voters aren't fooled for a nanosecond.

Secondly, and even more damning, were Paxo's questions about immigration levels. Ed candidly admits Labour's huge blunder of allowing too many immigrants into the country. He's so sorry, but does he really mean this?  So... Paxo asks what's the maximum acceptable population in this small island - 70 million - 80 million - 90 million - 100 million?  As each number is progressively called Ed looks like a rabbit frozen in the headlights, but glancing in all directions for an escape route. He adopts a sideways posture; his lips quiver but nothing is heard; this is simply not a fair question! Eventually he recalls a few of the pre-rehearsed avoidance strategies. Unfortunately none of the obvious follow up questions are asked, and he's off the hook. The media mark him for presentation, but the public has seen his true colours - allowing the flood of migrants to continue apace. He's not the remotest bit sorry, and has absolutely no intention of controlling immigration.

mercuryg

mercuryg

Posted
Posted

To be absolutely honest, and I believe this to be a major problem with UK politics right now, I have absolutely no interest in watching or hearing any of the current batch of party leaders or representatives speak. There's no passion, no commitment from them, they are wishy-washy and characterless, with obviously no experience of ordinary lives. I'll read what they said, but would prefer if they didn't waste TV time on them.

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threegee

threegee

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Well, if there was no interest in the "debates" the broadcasters wouldn't bother either - simples!  Something like 65% of the country are still going to vote for either Cameron or Miliband, so an intelligent person would want to try to fathom out why!

 

No one is going to change anything by moaning, or standing in the rain shouting slogans.  If they can't get your vote they'd rather you opted out, so essentially simply moaning about the current order is playing their game.  They love people like Brand, who diffuse and disperse opposition, but don't threaten their monopoly on power in the slightest.  But, get even a few percent of the electorate to wake up to an alternative, and then they're genuinely listening.  None of this they'll admit to of course, but it's the reality of the present very closely run situation. In a place like Bedlington, which has been systematically impoverished by being taken for granted for decades, this is particularly relevant.

mercuryg

mercuryg

Posted
Posted

65%? Are you serious? You think 65% are going to turn out for the vote? You must be kidding! 45% at most. And why does an intelligent person have to watch a largely scripted tv debate to get the picture? I appreciate your views, but your smug and superior attitude can grate sometimes.

threegee

threegee

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There's always been a section of the population that's opted out of politics, but it's always a minority. Sorry if I disregarded them.  Check the raw data and you'll appreciate that the ONLY significant fall in political engagement occurred after Tony Blair was elected.  It's not hard to appreciate why that would be.

http://www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout45.htm   But since 1997 people have clearly been becoming increasing more politically engaged.

 

No one has to watch the "debate", but I'd imagine anyone who'd visit this topic is at least curious. My bet is that this topic will be well down on the site's hit list, but that's no reason not to run it, and invite the opinion of those who did.

 

I'm really sorry you find me "smug and superior", but at core that's exactly what I'm not!  I believe that everyone has the capacity to change their life for the better, and that there's generally very little difference between our thinking ability.  That's a humbling thought that we all need to take on board. However I believe that there are a class of people who step forward to do that thinking for us; that their motives are generally suspect, and that our town has cruelly suffered as a result.  I'm generally not talking here about the people who stuck with the place and who's names are sometimes preserved on our place names, or even significant figures in the early Labour party. This is much more a modern phenomena.

 

I don't accept the popular belief that formal "education" is the solution to everything, and a path to universal advancement. And, I don't believe that ability to communicate clearly is in any way indicative of ability to think.  Life has taught me that creative and independent thinking is only possible if you turn your own brain on, and that nature rewards INDEPENDENT thinking.  Too often formal education is used as an a cypher for indoctrination and conformity.

 

i.e. I'm just an average lazy Joe with a tiny few luck breaks who, through life experience, is urging other average Joe's to stop accepting the spoon feeding of a elitist class who parasitically advances themselves by direct lies and pandering to populist myths.  That's a major reason why I don't engage directly in politics myself, but that doesn't mean that I'm opting out - anything but!

 

If this comes over as smugness or a superior attitude to you, then hard cheese!  I will continue my crusade to better the lot of everyone in Bedlington until my dying day, and hopefully beyond.  I don't expect any kudos, or formal recognition, or indeed want any; I do this simply because I owe it to my hard working, humble, and amazing ancestors, who were also committed to self advancement of all in Bedlington.  Thank you for providing the opportunity to formalise my late-in-life mission statement.

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threegee

threegee

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65%? Are you serious? You think 65% are going to turn out for the vote? You must be kidding! 45% at most. And why does an intelligent person have to watch a largely scripted tv debate to get the picture? I appreciate your views, but your smug and superior attitude can grate sometimes.

 

Calculator now to hand: I think we are going to see a 75%+ turnout this time - hopefully more. But let's say it's only 70% and a 65% split shared between Lab-Con, that's 48.75% and says you are wrong.  But, that misses my main point in that people need to know why they are voting which way they are; they should even know why they aren't bothering.

 

"why does an intelligent person have to watch a largely scripted tv debate to get the picture?" because life is full of surprises, and politicos are only "economical with the truth" part of the time. Second hand observation is little better than second hand thinking. Or, to put it more glibly: the script is never the movie!

mercuryg

mercuryg

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"I will continue my crusade to better the lot of everyone in Bedlington until my dying day, and hopefully beyond."

 

And so you should, 3G, but perhaps a little less condescencion, or that which could be construed as such, would enable you to influence more of the flock. You implication, for example, that those who are intelligent need to watch such debates, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who read that into your comment, was never goin to inspire people to read more of your comments. I can't see many of the younger voting generation wanting to watch what was essentially a rather boring broadcast that told us very little. They may, however, be intelligent enough to work out which way they are (or are not) voting by reading the news, views and opinions of others in the daily newspapers.

 

"I'm just an average lazy Joe with a tiny few luck breaks who, through life experience, is urging other average Joe's to stop accepting the spoon feeding of a elitist class who parasitically advances themselves by direct lies and pandering to populist myths.  That's a major reason why I don't engage directly in politics myself, but that doesn't mean that I'm opting out - anything but!"

 

That's a massive cop out, though, isn't it? Surely, to rid the system of the elitist class you refer to, it needs you, and your like, to get involved?

 

"I think we are going to see a 75%+ turnout this time - hopefully more."

 

I would hope so to, but we're not. It will be far, far lower as, despite views to the contrary, from my experience the average man on the street is apathetic.

 

By the way, I don't find you smug and superior, I don't know you and am sure you are a good man, but your attitude in some comments on here. I read your comments as you are clearly an intelligent, free thinking person - as you explain - who is passionate about the cause at hand, but sometimes I cringe. I guess we all do the same with each other.

Maggie/915

Maggie/915

Posted
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Smug superior intelligent free thinking they are all 'in' this week.

What's in a little over the top ranting.

Controversy sells.

Bring it on.

Sincerely held viewpoints.

Nay bother.

tomtom

tomtom

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If Lavery retains his seat (which is more than likely) what will he do for Bedlington? - my guess would be nowt. Others may think differently but he hasn't got a particularly good track record up to now. Remember the Tesco fiasco?

threegee

threegee

Posted
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"I'm just an average lazy Joe with a tiny few luck breaks who, through life experience, is urging other average Joe's to stop accepting the spoon feeding of a elitist class who parasitically advances themselves by direct lies and pandering to populist myths.  That's a major reason why I don't engage directly in politics myself, but that doesn't mean that I'm opting out - anything but!"

 

That's a massive cop out, though, isn't it? Surely, to rid the system of the elitist class you refer to, it needs you, and your like, to get involved?

 

No it's not merc.  I'm not exactly well at the moment - hopefully fully recovering from the big C - and so I do a little of what I can from afar.  That might not always be true, but quite frankly there are some excellent and enlightened people in our town, and I'm not in the slightest bit irreplaceable.

 

Palance

Palance

Posted
Posted

I would prefer to remember that as the  Tescogate Scandal. They're still not answering when asked "did you sell the Gap Site, and if so where's the money" ? 

This maybe the one to find out. She has the right CV to find out.post-3250-0-36775900-1427648029_thumb.jp

mercuryg

mercuryg

Posted
Posted

No it's not merc.  I'm not exactly well at the moment - hopefully fully recovering from the big C - and so I do a little of what I can from afar.  That might not always be true, but quite frankly there are some excellent and enlightened people in our town, and I'm not in the slightest bit irreplaceable.

I wasn't aware of your illness, and wish you well in your recovery.

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