threegee Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 He has, of course, already decided to do this, and that it's the only way to save his country. But, doesn't want to be accused of precipitating Grexit when the Germans are lined up to do the job for him. Virtually all we are hearing on the media is what the EU propaganda machine wants us to hear, and total guff! Both sides want Greece out of the EZ - it's just a matter of who gets to shoulder the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercuryg Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Actually, I don't agree we're only hearing one side of the story. I've followed this and find the media to be very much anti euro and pro greek independence. I can only conclude you're seeing things with tunnel vision. Go Greeks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threegee Posted July 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Excuse, but I didn't say we were only hearing one side of the story. What I said was that we are only - as always - hearing what the EU wants us to hear. These things are by no means equivalent. Firstly, there aren't two sides of the story; there are several sides. Secondly, virtually none of the principals is particularly forthcoming with what they truly believe. Most of it is smoke and mirrors, and the media is cheerfully regurgitating it through a EU filter. Just like the post-democratic EU delivers an illusion of being democratic, it also sets careful limits on the range of though. It's the same sort of group think that pops up in other aspects of modern life, and has an Orwellian aspect to it. The true outpouring of feelings is yet to come, and it won't be pretty. The EU myth of harmony, cooperation, "peace-in-our-time", etc. is going to degenerate into an almighty slanging match - one which will touch, and mould the opinions of, generations yet unborn. The simple fact is that the EU is destroying Europe! Any mature, historically-aware, rational person who believes in Europe and its peoples can not support the EU. There's no point still pretending that a bit of adjustment here or there is all that is needed. The core concept of the intimate political union of peoples differing so much in their approaches to life - sold to previous generations on a barefaced lie - is fundamentally rotten! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercuryg Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 "The simple fact is that the EU is destroying Europe!" For once, can't disagree with anything you write their. To put the record straight, I'm far from pro-EU. I prefer New Zealand Lamb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Robinson Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 There is a twinned prong attack happening..............http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/07/investing/china-stocks-shanghai-crash/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threegee Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 There is a twinned prong attack happening..............http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/07/investing/china-stocks-shanghai-crash/index.html China is really amusing: here we have a "communist" government desperately trying to save a nation of budding little capitalists from the direct consequences of their own actions! Paradoxical? Not really; that's the way "the left" always operates. It's a total failure to appreciate that removing "moral imperative" may be good for a few votes, but it teaches people all the wrong lessons about markets, so ultimately impoverishes. We don't need to look very far from here - to the nation of "more free stuff" - to see the consequences of this panning out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threegee Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Well.. it appears he didn't listen. The result isn't going to be pretty, and ultimately far worse than a clean drop-out from the Euro. From current reports he seems to have done entirely the opposite of his referendum mandate. I suppose it was far too much to expect clarity of thought from a can-have-it-all-ways leftie! Will the deal hold together? Will the Greek people swallow it? Probably NO on both counts. The certainties: Tsipras is gone in no time as his coalition (and likely own party) self-destructs. Merkel will be gone with time too; that's if the deal holds up, and German voters get the chance to see what she has let them in for. The irony being that Greek civil unrest might rescue Merkel from her own cupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Robinson Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think they missed a trick here,. I would have come out and negotiated a much reduced debt pile for taking the hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threegee Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think they missed a trick here,. I would have come out and negotiated a much reduced debt pile for taking the hit. That's electorally unacceptable for Merkel. Things like ability to pay don't enter into the dream world of the EU. No, far better to throw countless more billions away than reveal the huge scale of the current loss to voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Robinson Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 They can't pay now why throw more at them? Or why accept seeing all your assetts seized when you know its only a sticking plaster? Funny owld game this politics mularky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threegee Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 This one is beyond ordinary politics now. We're into the realms of traditional Teutonic hubris! Nobel economist Paul Krugman says the EMU demands are "madness†on every level. "What we've learned these past couple of weeks is that being a member of the eurozone means that the creditors can destroy your economy if you step out of line. This has no bearing at all on the underlying economics of austerity,†he said. "This goes beyond harsh into pure vindictiveness, complete destruction of national sovereignty, and no hope of relief. It is, presumably, meant to be an offer Greece can't accept; but even so, it's a grotesque betrayal of everything the European project was supposed to stand for,†Remember that they've already installed a puppet government in Italy, and this is clearly intended to set a vivid example to any Eurozone country that is even dreaming of stepping out of line. There's one way in the EU, and it's the German way! Now, let's suppose that the UK doesn't heed all the warnings from all the diverse groups that are urging us to vote NO in the referendum, often for quite different reasons. Let's suppose that Cameron - backed by the Brussels propaganda machine, and international capital - does a Harold Wilson and cons enough wet-behind-the-ears Brits into voting YES. Suppose another Gordon Brown type incompetent precipitates yet another Sterling crisis. Does anyone imagine for one second that we'd get any better treatment then than the Greeks are getting today? We'd be told that our only salvation was to capitulate to the almighty Eurozone, and history would be rewritten to portray our sticking with the pound as a massive strategic error. EU solidarity only works one way; as long as we are a massive contributor we'll continue to be exploited, but should our economy falter again the price of any EU assistance will be total! And, cast your mind just a tiny bit further into the future, to the time Herr Junker gets the EU military he's demanding. Do you suppose the Eurocrats, who now treat the Greek people with such "pure vindictiveness", will hesitate to use it to bring a vassal EU region into line? The referendum is probably the only chance we've got of getting off this slippery slope. Cameron will try to portray the status quo as the safe option. But, that will be another one of his fear and uncertainty plays - just like he exploited fear of the SNP to get elected. As this latest crisis proves, there simply is no status quo - it's Germany's way or no way! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threegee Posted September 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 ... And, cast your mind just a tiny bit further into the future, to the time Herr Junker gets the EU military he's demanding. Do you suppose the Eurocrats, who now treat the Greek people with such "pure vindictiveness", will hesitate to use it to bring a vassal EU region into line? The referendum is probably the only chance we've got of getting off this slippery slope. Cameron will try to portray the status quo as the safe option. But, that will be another one of his fear and uncertainty plays - just like he exploited fear of the SNP to get elected. As this latest crisis proves, there simply is no status quo - it's Germany's way or no way! Well... nothing like as further into the future as I thought possible! Merkel 'expects Cameron to back EU army' in exchange for renegotiation Un-bloomin-believable! Above all this illustrates what the EU is actually about, and what is really important to Berlin: military power - something that our ancestors wouldn't need any convincing about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Robinson Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 I can't believe the numbers they have thrown at Greece and Greece has taken?????? But then why not its only Euros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create a free account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now