Petition to Call a Temporary Halt to All Immigration

[Canny lass]

And finally, for this evening at any rate, Point 5:

 

"Sharia law is already imposed in our country" (posted today 12.57 PM)

 

This statement is in direct opposition to your statement yesterday (10.09 PM), that "all viewpoints will be equally valid right up to the inevitable day that Sharia law is imposed on us all." I can't seem to find any reference to this anywhere in the British legal system. Could you please quote me, or at least direct me to, the relevant paragraphs.

 

So, just to recap, what I'm asking for is, apart from an explanation as to how I recognise a muslim soley by his appearance (perhaps you missed the question?):

 

1. a clarification of what is your understanding of the Word ghetto
2. a clarification as to why we British can't succeed with the present wave of refugees just as we did with the Ugandan Asians or the boat-people
3. one (1) example of how any aspect of the British Culture has been replaced by a Group of refugees
4. a source of the given definition for "true refugee"
5. a clarification as to whether Sharia law has, or has not, already been imposed in Britain. With any possible answer in the affirmative, a wink in the direction of the appropriate paragraphs would be very much appreciated.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Canny lass

[mercuryg]

"You are applying Western democratic values to a system which totally rejects same."

 

Partly my point, 3G; this is a Western democratic society, and a few million Muslims is not about to change that.

 

"But even in the case of Nazi Germany.." Had I quoted such you would have responded that I was 'applying Western etc etc' as above; in thiscase, you are: Nazi Germany was, as you well know, a different picture, and hardly relevant to the current commentary.

 

"You are also making the mistake of equating Islam with other religions"

 

No, I'm not; as is often the case, you are the one making the mistake that I - and others - do not understand the subject, and that you - in solitary - do. In genuine concern, having been exposed to the same scary headlines and articles as you and others, I opted (as I am wont to do) to delve a little further and see if there was, in fact, an opposite viewpoint to the overwhelming Islamophobia of current trends; there was, and is, and it's worth taking into account.

 

  Do you think they are insincere?  Do you think they exaggerate?

 

Yes, and yes; the former as I don't belierver they are representative of all muslims, and the latter because 'what is going to happen' is not going to happen.

 

"In truth I think that's where we are likely heading too."

 

Military control? For the sake of a few percent of the population? Don't be silly; I am of the opinion you are unfortunately susceptible to believing the extrreme in everything, for reasons I can't fathom. Two examples from when I was at junior school (forty years ago) spring to mind as indicators as to how 'experts' can conjur up statistics and suppositions to create an untrue future scenario: first, I was 'reliably' and repeatedly informed that the world would have run out of oil by now: I'm still putting petrol in my car, and oil is plentiful; second, if the medical experts were to be believed, more than half of us would have died of AIDS by now. The future never pans out as one might thing, politically, religiously or otherwise.

[Maggie/915]

Very good to read but I am not allowed to press any more green buttons.

Seems I pressed too many yesterday and have to wait until today but that must mean 24 hours!

I will keep trying.

[Malcolm Robinson]

Just for my tuppence worth on this one…….

 

I think what GGG is presenting is the 'popular' view which is being ingrained into Mr and Mrs Joe Average up and down the country.  Few if any will check ANY facts and what was once "I hear that..” is now " Did you know!”  Supposition and gossip is now being presented as fact. 

I think there will almost certainly be a back lash, it's always happened throughout history just as France is now seeing it politically.  

[mercuryg]

"The numbers game won't hack it for several reasons."

 

I'm not sure about that, really. You mentioned earlier, 3G, the desire on the part of followers of Islam to 'outbreed' the rest with a view to taking over; that's all very well, but how are they going to do that? Some more, supposed, projected figures: the population of the UK in 2011 was around 63million; projections based on current growth rates say that, by 2037 - to give one example - it will be 73million, give or take a few. Now, currenty the number of people who are 'white' comes to around 55million; with people living longer than ever before, this raises an intereting question: let's use the figures above to move forward to the fabled 2050, when apparently the muslim population will exceed that of everyone else (not, remember, just the 'white'); an extra 10million, then, in 21 years (up to 2037) so we'll go overboard and say that, by 2050 the population might be 83 million (or, in fact, insert any figure you want.) Now, of course, by now we have at least 42million muslims in the country - a majority - which leaves 41million other. GIven the population of 'white' alone is growing at a steady rate - and that we are going to live longer, that means that the white (and other) population has declined by 13million since now, and the Muslim population increased by a colossal 37million.

 

It doesn't work, does it?

 

To be fair, the above is - as is every other supposition - precisely that, but it shows the extreme growth in Muslim UK population, and decline otherwise, needed to achieve the scaremongering Muslim majority that is needed to turn us into the Islamic State of the UK. Unless, of course, ordinary people like myself and the rest of you on here - in their millions - decide to convert to Islam. Or an asteroid wipes out ten million non-muslims.

 

I like the discussion, by the way, it's inspired me to find some truly wonderful websites that spout such obvious lies they are great fun: try billionbibles.org. I feel sure the Daily Mail draws some of its 'facts' from there. It's highly reputable. It also led me to imamsonline.com - also worth a read.

[threegee]

Just for my tuppence worth on this one…….

 

I think what GGG is presenting is the 'popular' view which is being ingrained into Mr and Mrs Joe Average up and down the country.  Few if any will check ANY facts and what was once "I hear that..” is now " Did you know!”  Supposition and gossip is now being presented as fact. 

I think there will almost certainly be a back lash, it's always happened throughout history just as France is now seeing it politically.  

 

Well, that's what our politicos absolutely depend on Malc: that; very short memories; and a new bunch of electors to con (the self-admitted reason Labour loves mass immigration).

Now here's an interesting FACT that relates to my where are all these moderate Muslims question.

 

Muslims make 'less than 10%' of referrals to Government's flagship anti-terror scheme

 

You'll note that the The Express has disabled comments on this story.  It's probably not one you'll find in the fact-seeking Guardian any time soon, but Guardian readers are challenged to prove me wrong.

Wow, loads of responses; even requests to explain words I've never actually used!    I'm looking forward to tackling the pertinent stuff.

[pilgrim]

Perhaps we should have a policy of not allowing anyone into the 'shire' unless they can prove at least 5 generations of unbroken ancestry in the shire (i mean genetic proof !! now how many could do that considering the dim and distant and at times murky past?)

How many places of worship are in the shire? (not including licensed premises!!) and how many different modes of worship/belief do they represent? (I note the Salvation Army are the first and only ones to step into the breach with food and hands on actual help in the flood areas!!)

A belief is exactly what it says - something that suits your mindset but not always backed by evidence. Since the world of 'tinternet' came upon us we can find 'facts' to justify anything (eg Wikipedia which had huge problems due to lack of peer review and any old 'shiite' was being posted as 'fact')

The press sell papers - at a loss - it costs more to print and distribute than the selling price, so the deficit is and always has been made up with advertising - now how does that work?? oh yes shout loud and grab attention, after all the proletariat will have forgot what was said by the weekend. (consider why folk buy a particular newspaper - because it suits what they want to hear!)

Maybe the answer to the 'Tesco' problem is there - build a mosque - Haj to the Market Place all year round instead of just Fri and Sat nights

And maybe for those not convinced have a look at the march for peace and condemnation of Daesh in Newcastle (3rd Jan I think) organised by - oh dear - the mosques!!

[Canny lass]

"even requests to explain the Words I've never actually used!"

 

I assume, and I know that you'll correct me should I happen to be wrong, that you are referring to my polite request for " a clarification of YOUR UNDERSTANDING of the Word ghetto"

NB: not a clarification of your USE of the Word ghetto or a clarification of the MEANING of the word. There is a difference, and understanding the writer's understanding of a Word helps me, the reader, to better understand your argument.

 

I chose ghetto instead of ghettoised because ghetto is the root of ghettoised, meaning "to put something into a separate, limited category" (OALD). The addition of the typically class changing suffix, -ise, and the inflectional -d  do not in anyway change the semantics of the root. In order to understand just what the writer is saying it may be advantageous to the reader to know whether or not the writer's UNDERSTANDING of the Word ghetto includes the notion of a slum. I Think it's a perfectly reasonable request and I'm looking forward to an answer.

[pilgrim]

interesting that the connotation of ghetto is coloured by the 2nd world war (not to be confused with the 3rd 4th and 5th world wars we are having now!) and the Jewish connotation. France has had a 'ghettos' for 60 yrs or more - indeed in the UK we had them for the Jewish community -- please not that there were at least two expulsions from Britain regarding that and of course the persecution and expulsion of Catholics  ( Do not denigrate Henry - the schism with Rome was all about alum and other things and of course caused the birth of ICI -- or is that taking the Pi** - think on that one lol)

we welcomed the Huguenots

Edited December 28, 2015 by pilgrim

[pilgrim]

for some reason the site wouldnt let me finish that - how about the Quakers - port sunlight etc etc  and they believed in workers being looked after - probably the precursor of the 'welfare state'

is there a problem that folk of a particular belief system or ethnicity should want to live with their own kith and kin?? - oh no that would be terrible turning a part of England into a foreign place -- nowt like tennerife or spain or the Languedoc or provence then???

[Canny lass]

" now here's an interesting FACT that relates to my where are all these moderate Muslms question"

 

So, only 8.6% of the referrals come from Muslims. What's so very strange about that? They only comprise 4.8% of the population so why should the figure be any higher?

 

And, well done Security Minister John Hayes who said "we must work with the overwhelming majority of British people who abhor the twisted narrative that has seduced some of our people".

Nice one!

[Maggie/915]

By pressing the green button I am still not allowed.

Strange but what defines a day and how do you qualify.

What number is too much.?

How many green buttons can you press in one day?

I did not even know they existed till yesterday.

Note to anyone if you like a post press green in the bottom right and you give that person a point.

[Malcolm Robinson]

Maybe the answer to the 'Tesco' problem is there - build a mosque - Haj to the Market Place all year round instead of just Fri and Sat nights

And maybe for those not convinced have a look at the march for peace and condemnation of Daesh in Newcastle (3rd Jan I think) organised by - oh dear - the mosques!!

 

Bedlington is about to get one......

[Canny lass]

Mercuryg, thanks for some good POVs. It amazes me too that people don't take the time to read critically. That is one of the best things I learned to do in school and a habit that was drummed into me by my parents - well my father in particular - was to "never take things at face value". As you say, it's an enjoyable thread which makes me see that all hope is not lost.

 

Maggie, those green buttons have a Life of their own and can make for interesting viewing at times. But not to worry, I Think that plenty of other buttons are being pressed on this thread and not all of them green.

[Maggie/915]

Still trying the green button.

In the mean time why have some posts no 'greens button' while others have.

My posts on this thread early on have no green button whilst the post at 4:17 today has the green button to press.

Not that I would press my own post 'honest'.

Well not intentionally.

It is fascinating to see who has the most green points.

Sadly not me.

Well done Canny Lass sixty last time I looked.

[Canny lass]

I don't Think you are allowed to press your own button Maggie! It shouldn't even be possible and there are probably warning Points involved!

60 points, eh. Somebody must agree with my rantings! Nice to know. But scoring Points is not what the discussion is about - I hope.

[Maggie/915]

Thank Goodness for that Canny Lass, can't have people pressing their own buttons.

Whatever next.

Intriguing to look at the figures.

I find new purpose in the Forum.

It is like being in a race but you have no idea of where you are running.

Blind Faith.

I have so few points and that's fine by me.

It looks like Malcolm and 3g are top of the charts.

[Malcolm Robinson]

Its about allowing people to agree with your points but refrain from having to post.  

[pilgrim]

ah now i understand -- tomorrow i will be building a green button to keep by my keyboard and when i feel a rant coming on i will press it profusely ..after all i find myself totally agreeable - although herself says otherwise!!! (now theres a thought - I wonder if I can get the green button to dispense copious amounts of 'milk of amnesia' ..am having a rather nice burgundy at the moment when pressed?)

[Canny lass]

No, no, no, Pilgrim! It's much better to have a rant yourself.

Speaking of buttons does anybody know where I can buy one of those buttons seen on the Ykos ads - the one on the arm of the sofa, which when pressed summons a couple of semi- clothed nubile, young men with feather dusters in their hands? (Asking for a friend). I've been round all the shops here without any luck.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Canny lass

[mercuryg]

Thanks Canny Lass; I like subjects that raise differing opinions. I grew up in an overtly white area of Cheshire, where exposure to religion(s) was limited as my family were not churchgoers (note that I was 'sent' to Sunday School to give me an opportunity to make my own mind up, which I did). Forty years later and I live in an overtly white area of Northunberland; the difference now is that I have educated myself on other religions, met and enjoyed discourse with persons of many religions, and take on board that some people are more committed than others to the word of their holy book. At school, our Religious Education classes were entirely committed to the teachings of the Bible, of Christianity; I doubt I heard Islam mentioned until I was well into my teens. Two contrasts - one girl in that class, at high school, was a devout believer who argued - bravely and I must say with admirable conviction - against an entire classroom that every word of The Bible was true. She couldn't be shaken, and it amazed me that someone as intelligent - for she was - could be so closed to other opinions; a few years later, at college, I befriended a lad in the class called Immi, a huge bear of a lad who we all found fascinating, because he was a Sikh. He was more than happy to tell us all about his religion and culture, and indeed took us to visit his Temple; we were welcomed with open arms by wonderfully friendly, colourful and interesting people who, quite frankly, must have seemed like they came from another world to us. He was a great guy - his only regret was that he had to return home after he graduated to marry, an arranged marriage - and he inspired my interest in the culture and religion of other peoples. Granted, followers of Islam are not as open and inviting as Sikhs (who I will assure you will welcome you at any point you want to visit a Gurdwara) but that's up to them. The point of the above is that the devout Christian girl I mentioned earlier made her religion far less accessible and inviting than that of the Sikh. I find it pleasing that, these days, my neices and nephews are taught about all religions and cultures.

[Canny lass]

Religious Education, or Religious Knowledge as it was called in my day, has indeed come a long way, thank  ....... (insert whichever deity you follow)! Today's youngsters appear, on the whole, to be more understanding than our generation were at the same age and it's always  niceto hear that some of us 'olduns' have continued to widen our views by continuing to learn even after formal schooling has been completed. Roll on the day when intolerance becomes a dying art right up there  where it belongs together with sacking of parlour maids for indiscretion and dying of dropsy.

 

Agree wholeheartedly about the friendliness of the Sikhs but I have to say that I've found the Muslims to be the same. Perhaps they are a Little more cautious about opening up but That's not so strange given the present hostile climate. They don't know who to trust sitting, as they do, in the direct firing line for two Groups - ISIS on the one side and the INTOLERANT on the other.

[threegee]

" now here's an interesting FACT that relates to my where are all these moderate Muslims question"

 

So, only 8.6% of the referrals come from Muslims. What's so very strange about that? They only comprise 4.8% of the population so why should the figure be any higher?

 

....

 

You can't be serious!  With one breath the apologists for a pure evil doctrine are asking what's wrong with closed communities and non-integration, with the next we are all supposed to have full awareness of who has been radicalised inside those closed communities.  Doh!  The whole purpose of the scheme is to encourage those mythical moderate Islamists to come forward with what they know about radicalisation, because even the security services are struggling for information. A reasonable figure here might be 98%!

 

This is the sort of leftie double-think that has got us into the mess we are in, and it highlights another truism: the real difference between left and right is that the left simply can't count (actually doesn't want to count)! Just about everything in the world is resource limited, but in left-wing-la-la-land there are no such limitations.  That's the reason left wing governments invariably fail in economic mess. That's also the reason why all the clap-trap about the present mass immigration crisis having historical precedence is pure left wing nonsense!  We've never experienced anything like this before and - because we have no strategy to deal with it - we've left ourselves wide open to cultural (and some might reasonably claim, physical) annihilation!

[Canny lass]

What does 'doh' mean?

[pilgrim]

i think its a female deer .................... but thats according to the sound of music ... damn those foreigners again stealing all the best music oops I seem to recall they were refugees as well so obviously have nothing of worth to contribute to our society...

Edited December 29, 2015 by pilgrim