Jo Cox attack

[Canny lass]

What is British politics coming to!

Whatever happened to the reasoned, respectul democratic debate/discussion that I grew up with.

My thoughts go out to this brave woman - whatever her political persuasion - and her family.

[Canny lass]

Just heard that Jo Cox has now died of her injuries. Tragic!

[Tonyp]

Absolutely disgusting a good M.P trying to help theirs RIP Jo.

[threegee]

Thomas Mair: Man arrested in connection with attack on Jo Cox was 'a quiet loner who kept himself to himself'

[Canny lass]

Can't read the article, 3g. It says I must subscribe to do so. This is hitting the news big time over here and, as with every incident of this type, rumours are going wild as to the motive for the killing. Some say it's political as he was ALLEGEDLY heard to shout 'Britain First' during the attack. This hasn't been verified. Some are saying that Jo Cox was seen trying to separate two men who were fighting when the first shot was fired. Some have already decided that Mair is guilty. 

Best to wait for the result of the investigation.

Whichever way it goes, its a tragic loss of a young woman's life.

[threegee]

The trick to read the Torygraph pages is to simply kill the cookie - but I didn't tell you that!

If you use Firefox then install: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/cookiekiller/?src=api

Simply right click on the subscription blocked page; select kill cookies for telegraph.co.uk; then refresh the page with the circular arrow symbol in the address bar.

[Canny lass]

Thanks!

[webtrekker]

The link in the original post works fine on my Android phone. 

[moe19]

Apparently this man has  long history of mental illness, and was not politically motivated in this attack  

Local restaurant owner Hicham Ben Abdallah, widely quoted across the media as having claimed Mr. Mair shouted, “Britain First” has said “No, no. I did not hear that”.

I sincerely hoped this young woman's death would  not  be used as a political tool but it seems some of the press are already doing so 

[Canny lass]

20 minutes ago, moe19 said:

I sincerely hoped this young woman's death would  not  be used as a political tool but it seems some of the press are already doing so 

I sincerely hope so too, Moe but, as you point out, it's already being twisted and turned to suit the economic needs of the press. Newspapers need to be sold!

I personally don't know how they can claim either, mental illness or political motivation as the cause. It may be neither, it may be both. The man has been in custody since five minutes after the attack. No reporter has interviewed him. 

The story is mainline news here both on radio, TV and in the press.The motivation is most often given as political, but of course there is an enormous interest in the coming referendum here. It's been seen to be everything from right-wing activism to left-wing referendum tactics!

[Maggie/915]

Shocking news.

An evil act on a young person who was trying to do her best for the people of her constituency .

No one is safe.

[moe19]

4 hours ago, Canny lass said:

I sincerely hope so too, Moe but, as you point out, it's already being twisted and turned to suit the economic needs of the press. Newspapers need to be sold!

 

I hope someone reports the Star as it reports MP dead after attack by Brexit gunman

An eyewitness to the murder who clearly feels he has spoken to enough journalists has shut his shop and  has put this notice up in his drycleaners shop

 

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/16/breaking-labour-mp-jo-cox-shot-stabbed-constituency-surgery-yorkshire/

[threegee]

Maybe someone should have pointed out to him the essential irony in buying "FREE SPEECH" publications on the very same order as he bought the plans for making a gun!

[moe19]

The invoice was from 1999 and contains a few things that would sound  alarm bells now, sadly no one must have been monitoring such sales then.

I think the police need to issue a statement of fact as soon as possible or the gutter press claims   will most certainly affect the outcome of the EU campaign

[Canny lass]

1 hour ago, threegee said:

Maybe someone should have pointed out to him the essential irony in buying "FREE SPEECH" publications on the very same order as he bought the plans for making a gun!

Might one ask where that came from? Are we sure it's the same Thomas Mair?

[Canny lass]

I retract the last questions. I've just found the source.

[threegee]

2 hours ago, moe19 said:

The invoice was from 1999 and contains a few things that would sound  alarm bells now, sadly no one must have been monitoring such sales then.

I think the police need to issue a statement of fact as soon as possible or the gutter press claims   will most certainly affect the outcome of the EU campaign

Well... they aren't going to, are they?  All we get served up is this facile crap like "fighting" a "well of hate".  Where do Cameron and Corbyn suppose this "well of hate" is lurking, if not in the mind of a lone crazed individual already in custody.  The star prize for inane drivel must go - once again - to Gordo.   

Quote

People will say that this does not happen in Britain. This should not happen in Britain. And we must resolve that this will never again happen in Britain.

Well Gordon, it HAS happened in Britain before; it DID happen in Britain yesterday; and precisely how do you propose that it will never again happen?  Your other automated response: "it's a global problem" would have been more telling, though of no more avail.

Our politicians need to learn that when there's nothing of use to be said, they do have the option of not saying anything.  A simple shake of the head is all it takes.

[threegee]

And, the one which takes its justification from the other:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/680969/Manchester-machete-fight-Moston-police

Seems a Union Jack was involved .. fill in the dots .  It's not a "well of hate" it's mutual stupidity!  The prize for this goes to the elites who benefit from mass immigration in many ways themselves, and aren't remotely inconvenienced by it.  Unskilled and unemployed native people feel powerless seeing their country occupied, and the elites quote massaged statistics at them, and demand an intellectualised response!  Glory be!  Likely time to do it the French way and "prune the top of the tree" comme un avertissement pour les autres!

Intolerance breeds intolerance, and you can be just as intolerant mouthing off your pet theories of how the world should be, without considering its impact on the status quo, and the people you're been put there to represent, as you can joining a reactionary extremist group. Nutter Mair took one life, but has anyone even put an approximate figure on how many lives Tony Blair's conscientious interventions reaped?  When the price of salving your conscience paid in other people's lives, it's undoubtedly better to go through life with a somewhat grubby one.

[Canny lass]

IF, and that's a mighty big IF, we can believe all we read and hear in press and media then "Nutter Mair" suffers from OCD (according to his half brother). OCD is not a psychoses. OCD does not detatch the sufferer from reality though it is an illness. Just listened to the news here and I understand that the anti-terrorist squad are now involved in the enquiry.

[threegee]

An "anti-terrorist squad" is involved these days if you park on double white lines.  We must be seen to be doing something isn't just a politician's disease.

When someone like that performs an extreme act it's because they've misread the social signals of others, often from the fringes.  The entire group feels it's the only way, but no one but the loner will act, and when it happens the rest will distance themselves from it.  How can you identify which individual will act - well of course you can't, and neither can the police, but they are expected to.

The cause isn't the availability of weapons, or a (temporary?) mental state of one individual.  It's not even the existence of the group, but the reason for the existence of the group.  The group will only exist if there are social pressures demanding it, so it comes back to those who create or allow those social conditions to persist.  And... hey presto... that's clueless politicians!  So there's likely not a huge chasm between Mair's distorted thinking and hard reality - though he obviously wouldn't be reasoning it from that angle.

[mercuryg]

"When someone like that performs an extreme act it's because they've misread the social signals of others"

Or, and I would say more likely, it's because they are evil and/or unhinged. The reactions to this incident, from various factions, I've found interesting; the far right commentators immediately panicked, for example, the instant they heard of a (incorrect, it seems) connection with Britain First. Doubtless, had the man been a member - not likely as there are very few - it would be difficult to confirm it now. The opposite pack immediately marched in with their own agendas, highlighting the connection with extremism. The tabloids, and others, immediately applied the Terrorism tag to the murder, without any real evidence. This was the brutal and needless killing of a well-liked and respected, hard-working woman, who did nobody any harm, by an idiot, a murderer, a worthless human being. Nothing more, and nothing less. 

 

[threegee]

I was generalising such acts there; it's not the time to talk about the specifics here because we don't know all the facts, nevertheless tell me where did I say any other than that Mair is undoubtedly "unhinged"?

I'd agree with you that they are all spinning it in their own way whilst pretending not to be, and that's unseemly. Here I wouldn't exclude her husband from that observation.  He has a right to be distraught and say a few silly things, but from what I've heard so far he's systematically politicising the tragedy.

[Canny lass]

Having a mental illness does not automatically make you a murderer and all mental illnesses do not involve difficulties in interpreting the social signals of others. If such was the case then I'm pleased I'm not living in the UK where 1 in 4 of the population have had a mental illness diagnosed (not counting those in hospital and prison).

I, personally, will be very surprised if Mair's actions (assuming of course that he is guilty) are found to be the result of either cognitive or affective disorder. IF we are to believe all we read then I'd go along with him being a loner - intentional or unintentional, as the case may be.

[threegee]

Quote

The man accused of murdering Jo Cox sought help for his mental health problems the night before she was killed - but was told to make an appointment and come back the next day.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/17/jo-cox-murder-thomas-mair-asked-for-mental-health-treatment-day/

 

[Canny lass]

Yes, I read that but it doesn't change my opinion. From what I've read up until now about his life style and his health (assuming that I can believe what's written) , I don't think he had any type of cognitive or affective disorder that could account for that type of action. That is not to say that he did not have mental problems. Of course, I may be totally wrong, we'll have to wait and see.