Terrible things that will NOT now happen..

[mercuryg]

No, you said there were only a handful of refugees; I'll dig out the quote when I can be bothered.

And now all immigrant females are prostitutes! Oh, no, you didn't say that; you said they were the only ones you've seen. 

And the Syrians are not fleeing a war zone? 

[threegee]

6 hours ago, mercuryg said:

No, you said there were only a handful of refugees; I'll dig out the quote when I can be bothered.

And now all immigrant females are prostitutes! Oh, no, you didn't say that; you said they were the only ones you've seen. 

And the Syrians are not fleeing a war zone? 

But now you can't "be bothered" to find my words to quote them accurately - well, well!

I say what I see, and I don't make things up; nor do I constantly put words into other people's mouths!

I did not say that the illegal immigrants I see are Syrians.  Most of them seem to be North or Central Africans, but they try to conceal their origins by throwing their temporary papers away.  They believe that they are better off without the paperwork they are given, and I can only conclude that this is because it enables them to pose as refugees, or merge into a refugee stream at some point on their travels North.  I think this is the general consensus locally.

Is this constant distortion of what people say an example of how you "win" your bar room arguments?

[mercuryg]

I don't tend to have bar room arguments; the people who's company I enjoy don't get on my nerves!

July 20th, you wrtote: "If there is more than a handful of genuine refugees - as you seem to believe - then why are they practically all young males?" Yes, I do believe there are more than a handful.

"I did not say that the illegal immigrants I see are Syrians."

Good, now we're getting somewhere. So, what is your take on the Syrians, fleeing the war zone (you accept it is a war zone?) Are they refugees, or economic migrants? You see, I thought the above comment - the one from July 20th - referred not to African illegal immigrants, whom you now talk about, but to Muslims seeking refuge (or not).

I, too, have plenty of experience of immigrants (both legal and otherwise) thanks to my regular visits to the area around Boston, in Lincolnshire; the town itself has a strong Eastern European community, and I'm not sure all the women are prostitutes. Mind you, I do know how to tell an illegal immigrant: he will wear a long coat which, when opened, reveals not only a selection of fake Rolexes, but ducks poached from the local village pond, and perhaps the odd fish. Plus, he will speak in a dodgy accent, and be generally unclean. Either that or they work in the fields and drive taxis.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2016 by mercuryg

[threegee]

Great, some proper discussion, without ducking issues!

 

I don't tend to have bar room arguments; the people who's company I enjoy don't get on my nerves!

I like the "tend"!  I suspect that the people "who's company I enjoy" defer to you for the sake of peace an quiet, and keep their thoughts to themselves.  Only a suspicion! 

July 20th, you wrtote: "If there is more than a handful of genuine refugees - as you seem to believe - then why are they practically all young males?" Yes, I do believe there are more than a handful.

Yes, that's a question you need to address.  Look at the photos of refugee columns.  Are those photos faked?  Those pictures broadly accord with what I see with my own eyes, and I'm not in denial about what I see.  Relative to the millions who are coming, it is fairly clear that only a tiny percentage overall have been displaced from their homes by military action. There's also evidence that rather a lot of non-Syrians blend in, and lie about their origins.  The Germans employ a private firm, and their verification procedure is to ask the individuals where they came for.  Don't you think that in these smartphone days there's a lot of conferring as to the best things to say?  Reportedly this private firm has no comprehension of regional dialects or accents.  And, you've ducked my other question about the eight points of the compass here too.

"I did not say that the illegal immigrants I see are Syrians."

Good, now we're getting somewhere. So, what is your take on the Syrians, fleeing the war zone (you accept it is a war zone?) Are they refugees, or economic migrants? You see, I thought the above comment - the one from July 20th - referred not to African illegal immigrants, whom you now talk about, but to Muslims seeking refuge (or not).

My take is as above.  They are a mixture, but genuine refugees tend to want to go home at the earliest instant.  They also tend to want to live with their own peoples in their own region, and don't want to travel further than they really need to.  Why make getting back to your locality after the conflict has passed over it any more tortuous or expensive?  The vast majority of these people are seeking a new life in a country where they are told "the streets are paved with gold", and have no intention of returning anywhere at any future date.

Consider: even if you lived in a war zone but didn't feel threatened yourself, don't you think you'd be inclined to exaggerate the dangers if there was a one-off opportunity of bypassing the immigration controls of a much more prosperous country?  A country which was prepared to give you generous hand-outs to get established there, and one where you already spoke the language!

I, too, have plenty of experience of immigrants (both legal and otherwise) thanks to my regular visits to the area around Boston, in Lincolnshire; the town itself has a strong Eastern European community, and I'm not sure all the women are prostitutes. Mind you, I do know how to tell an illegal immigrant: he will wear a long coat which, when opened, reveals not only a selection of fake Rolexes, but ducks poached from the local village pond, and perhaps the odd fish. Plus, he will speak in a dodgy accent, and be generally unclean. Either that or they work in the fields and drive taxis.

You don't see what is landing on the Southern shores of Europe.  The people you see - unless they've got in illegally - have been filtered by our immigration services who reject the majority of asylum applications.  Those economic migrants have an alternative strategy, and it requires a little patience.  (Islam is unbelievably patient though!)  They take up Frau Merkel's (and the Swedish) over-generous invites, and then become EU citizens, at which point our immigration services have no say in the matter.  This is a problem for the future unless we Brexit pronto.  The reason a lot of immigrants don't want to learn the local lingo is that their English is generally a lot better than the local's English (Witness the altercation between the Swedish bus driver and the immigrant on yesterday's news), and their ultimate goal is to get to speak their good English in the country that claims to have originated it!

Please don't distort what I said about a very few young immigrant females - I say what I see!

The rest of Europe isn't taking all this lying down:  Hungary taunts Merkel over terror and says 'our problem is not in Mecca, but in Brussels'

[mercuryg]

"I like the "tend"!   I suspect that the people "who's company I enjoy" defer to you for the sake of peace an quiet, and keep their thoughts to themselves.  Only a suspicion! "

On the contrary; there are, in fact, several members on here who know me face to face, and I'm sure they will tell you I'm among the most easy going, personable and approachable people around, with no hidden agenda, no desire to shove my views down people's throats without giving them an option, and an accepting and friendly attitude that comes with wishing to enjoy life. I suggest, in all honesty, you could probably learn a thing or two from me.

"And, you've ducked my other question about the eight points of the compass here too."

Because I'm not interested in it; I don't care for complexity when simple answers will suffice. The thing is you've repeatedly denied you even said this, but you did.

"They are a mixture, but genuine refugees tend to want to go home at the earliest instant."

In the case of the Syrians, go home to what? 

"The people you see - unless they've got in illegally - have been filtered by our immigration services who reject the majority of asylum applications."

The people I see (or know) are not subject to asylum on the whole; they are typical of the many Eastern European immigrants who come here for work. Work, I might add, that isn't very glamorous; without the Poles, for example, the Lincolnshire turnip fields would not yield a decent crop, as the farmers can't get the local British healthy young men to stoop to pulling them out of the ground. Before you jump on me for stereotyping, I'm paraphrasing the words of farmers who live - and farm - around my sister's estate. I don't know what happens when the borders close miraculously after we invoke Article 50 (which a surprising number of people seem to believe will happen, to both instances) but I like my turnips.

 

[Brian Cross]