Happy Birthday Canny Lass

[mercuryg]

Happy belated birthday Canny Lass, hope you had a good day!

[Canny lass]

Thanks merc.

[Brian Cross]

Canny Lass i believe you live in Sweden can you tell me if things are as bad as we hear in the news regarding immigrants .........BC

[Canny lass]

On 2017-02-23 at 08:25, Brian Cross said:

Canny Lass i believe you live in Sweden can you tell me if things are as bad as we hear in the news regarding immigrants .........BC

Depends on what you are hearing and from whom you are hearing it, Brian. If you are hearing/reading it via TV and newspapers then you should be aware of two things:

• TV companies and Newspaper groups are businesses just like any other business. They are in it to make money and don't stock goods that don't sell. They give the customer what they want.
• They are, more often than not, politically affiliated.

For this reason the politically right orientated media will describe a situation in one way while the politically left orientated media will describe the same situation in another way. The reader/listener must decide for themselves which, if any, is telling the truth. This phenomenon is not unique to Sweden as countless research projects have shown.

I am assuming that your question arises from the storm which erupted in response to an utterance made by President Donald Trump at a public meeting when he used Sweden as an example of how badly things can go when immigration is allowed causing crime figures - particularly rape - to soar. We hear this in Sweden too but only from the right orientated media. The left orientated media, on the other hand, paint a picture of a land of milk and honey with a welfare state, caring for one and all, that is second to none, and an equality of the sexes that abounds the length and bredth of this oblong land.

The sad fact is that, according to me and others like me, neither is correct. Both are exaggerations. Sweden does not appear to me to be the Hell hole described by right wing media but equally it does not appear to be the paradise described by the left wing media. The reports are poles apart and the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Newspapers and TV are, in my opinion, not the best places to gain information. If you want unbiased facts and figures  about crime and immigration in Sweden then there are plenty of scientifically based reports available, spanning a near 50 year period of time, that deal specifically with this issue. Of course, being impartial and objective, they are usually very boring reading - not the sort of thing you peruse over a cuppa and a bacon butty.

However, that doesn't answer your question. Can we believe all we hear about immigrants  in Sweden? Is there an upsurge in the amount of crime and if so is immigration the cause of it? Do refugees live a life of luxury on huge amounts of benefits?

Well, we know what the newspapers say. What do the experts say? Often seen on TV here is Jerzy Sarnecki, professor in Criminology at Stockholm University and with specialist competence in juvenile crime. According to him, immigrants and their children are overrepresented in crime statistics and the reasons for this are three:

1. Discrimination within the judicial system:

There are more police patrols in areas inhabited by ethnic minorities and more frequent 'checks' on those with an obvious foreign background. These two factors alone increase the possibility that persons belonging to an ethnic minority will end up in some criminal register while, at the same time, reducing the risk for Swedes of Swedish origin.

2. Conditions and circumstances in their country of origin:

Sarnecki's research has shown that there is a relationship between war and other atrocities in the home country and crimes of violence comitted by immigrants in Sweden but he couldn't find any support linking just cultural differences to overrepresentation in the crime statistics except in the case of crimes related to family honour. He frequently knocks holes in the popular theory that individuals from a certain country are more likely to commit crime than others. He can't find any support for that either with the exception of one group of immigrants - those from Finland who came here to work in the 70s and 80s, bringing with them their serious alcohol problems and the crimes related to it.

Another group that appears to swell the immigrant crime figures is the league of criminals from the Baltic region who aren't immigrants at all - merely foreign born criminals who are here, temporarily, for the purpose of 'work'.

3. Living standards in Sweden

It's a well documented fact that poverty, social isolation, low income and childhood cicumstances have a direct relationship to crime and immigrants usually have a foot in all of those camps so it's hardly surprising that they are overrepresented in the statistics. However if you look at other factors, such as the parent's education, profession and income, unemployment and social isolation then the difference between immigrants and non-immigrants can be halved.

If I were to say that the immigration population in Sweden is not a problem then I would be misleading you. The last wave, because of its size, has stretched resources but not to the degree that your average Joe Toes is suffering any hardships. If I didn't help out with their language difficulties then I probably wouldn't know they were here. Sure, there are some Swedes who are unhappy, they are the ones who believe everything written by right wing media, however, there are also some refugees who are unhappy. They are the ones who believed everything written by the left wing media. Now, when they've been sitting around in migration centres with 24 SEK a day, socially isolated, without any meaningful occupation, missing their relatives and with loads of time on their hands to remember the atrocities they've suffered in their home country - it's hardly surprising that some of them turn to crime.

Despite that, and the fact that Sweden has welcomed so many, crime figures for immigrants appear to be roughly the same as 40 years ago and foreign nationals have been overrepresented in crime statistics throughout that time. I've lived here for 30 years (I arrived towards the end of the Finnish immigration period) and during my time here immigration has taken many forms both with regard to country of origin and reason for immigration. Groups from Africa, particularly the northern area are generally more overrepresented in statistics related to suspicion of crime but funnily enough, according to Sarnecki, those who dominate among the persons suspected of crime are in fact Scandinavians! Individuals from Finland, Norway, Denmark and Iceland who account for 5%. After all, they dominate the immigration figures in this country. I sometimes wonder if people reading about immigration in Sweden even consider the fact that most of Sweden's immigrants are blonde haired and blue eyed. By comparison can be mentioned that our North African immigrants account for only 0.7% of suspected criminal activity. Makes you wonder, doesn't it!

I personally haven't noticed any differences in crime during my time here. Murders crop up now and then as they've always done. If there's any difference here then it's iin the weapon of choice. I get the impression that firearms are more often a part of the scene now than previously and that the victims are more often from an immigrant background than previosly. The past two years there appears, again according to me, to have been an increase in the number of cases of arson as migration centres have been burned down at a rate of knots. But this is only my opinion. 

Forgot to mention all the alleged rapes that were recently reported at music festivals around the country. Recent report - albeit on TV - says that in  88% of the of reported rape cases have now  been closed.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Canny lass

[Canny lass]

Sweden's refugees, living in centres run by the immigration authority and with food provided have a legal right to:

Single adult - 24 SEK per day

Adult in a shared household - 19 SEK per day

Child, up to 17 years - 12 SEK per day (applies only to the first two children)

Child, up to 17 years (third and any subsequent children) - 6 SEK per day

 

Refugees living in their own household and providing their own food:

Single adult - 71 SEK per day

Adult in a shared household - 61 SEK per day

Children up to 3 years - 37 SEK per day

Children 4-10 years - 43 SEK per day

Children 11-17 years - 7 SEK per day (reduced by 50% for 3rd and subsequent children)

NB. This allowance, in addition to food, should cover the costs of clothing, cleaning, hygiene, medical care and dental work as well as leisure time activities.

Just to give you some idea of costs in Sweden my bill for food, hygiene and cleaning is 4 500 SEK for two adults for a month. (SEK is currently worth around 9.8 pence). That's roughly 75 SEK per day/person.

 

[threegee]

I think you've given us info indigestion again CL!

Maybe you can tell us what's wrong with this recent very readable article?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/23/wont-admit-stockholm-donald-trump-right-immigration-sweden/ 

It is written by someone who is allegedly there, and who seems to be - at very least - putting on a rather convincing act of political balance.  Please have pity on everyone and do this in as few sentences as possible.

It's good that Sweden has seemingly managed an 80% reduction in numbers.  That's because the number of "refugees" entering Europe illegally looks set for a really bumper year (one wonders where all these new wars are!).  Tolerance here is now wearing as thin as the Italian government's cheque book, and a lot of that tolerance was only ever due to far too generous payments to the stressed communities, plus - of course - the fact that the illegals are simply transiting and can soon be regarded as someone else's problem.

[mercuryg]

Canny Lass, use as many sentences as you want! 

[Canny lass]

9 hours ago, threegee said:

 

I think you've given us info indigestion again CL!

 

There’s a simple cure for that. Don’t read it. I was asked for my opinion. I gave it.

9 hours ago, threegee said:

Maybe you can tell us what's wrong with this recent very readable article?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/23/wont-admit-stockholm-donald-trump-right

Nothing at all given that it appeared in the Telegraph, a right orientated publication, and was written by a supporter of the Conservative party. It ticks all the boxes. As you say yourself, he was “allegedly” there and “seems to be putting on a rather convincing act”.

[Vic Patterson]

A very good and interesting discussion but not really appropriate for "Birthday Wishes" 

 

[Canny lass]

Quite right, Vic. We can't have people raining on my parade can we. Subject closed.

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

On 1/14/2017 at 11:03, Canny lass said:

Definitely going to make some of those glow-stick thingummies when we shovel snow tomorrow. I missed today's shovelling - ashamed face.

Can't close yet - Note for diary - Jan 12-13th, or even 14th (depending on ashamed face period) 2017 images of glow-stick thingummies will appear -   I'm singing and dancing in the rain - doo be do do, doobe doobe do do, doo be do do, doobe doobe do do, doo be do do, doobe doobe do do

[Maggie/915]

Good reading Canny Lass.