Canny lass

Hi Lynne, In all the census records from 1841 to 1921 there is no Church Road. There is however a Church Row. Much depends on where you found the name and the year it was written. 'Row' is quite often wrongly transcribed to 'Road' when documents are transcribed for digitalisation. In 1861 Church Row housed 15 families but by 1871 this was reduced to 9 families. Here it is on a map from 1860. As you can see it is located at the entrance to what is now Church Lane.

I remember you talking about your writing, Hand written or not I doubt you'd get it published if you're still writing in your dialect- There's no market as dialects are dying out rapidly and very few are able to understand the north east - or any other - dialect, written or spoken, if they are younger than you and I. I'm helping a young man with his master's thesis just now on this very subject of dialect decline. It's saddening to say the least. But never mind! What a legacy you will leave for your family!!

That's difficult to read even when you zoom in! Try these:

It's been a while since this topic was aired so I thought you might like to see what was amusing the people of the North East 120 years ago in 1904. I found this while rummaging about in the archives for James Gibson (nailer) but while he is named as the winner of the competition (winning the princely sum of 2 shillings and 6 pence!) he doesn't appear to be the James Gibson I was looking for. (Newcastle Weekly Chronicle 26 March 1904)

I’ve finally got my dahlias and geraniums stowed away for the winter and the falling leaves are keeping me very busy. It’s been a while since I could do any research on the Gibson family but now I’m back in business! Now, where were we…….? Following the death of his mother Ann in 1869 and the deaths of his brothers Philip in 1858 and James in 1878, Henry Gibson, born 1814, is the only surviving male in the family business and he takes over its management. He marries Mary Hedley in or around 1837 and together they have at least six children: daughters Ann, Jane Elizabeth, Hannah and Mary Ellen born 1837, 1842, 1850 and 1852 respectively. He also has two sons Philip Hedley Gibson, born 1847, and William James Gibson born 1855 who will eventually take over from their father. Before going on to Philip and Williams part in the ironmongery business it’s perhaps worth mentioning a couple of Henry’s daughters. In 1877 Henry’s daughter Mary Ellen, 25 years old, marries Lewis Dunn a farmer’s son from Bebside. On leaving school Lewis becomes a draper’s apprentice with Mr John Young of Waterloo Place, Blyth. (later Hedley Young?) By 1871 Lewis is a fully fledged draper managing, and living above a shop (with very distinctive windows) on Front Street East in Bedlington just a few doors away from the Gibson family home. Once married the couple live above the shop on Front Street East. By 1881 the couple have two small children and the business is paying well enough for them to have a live-in domestic servant. Unfortunately, Lewis dies in 1885 just eight years after their marriage. He leaves Mary Ellen with four young children. However, the Gibson girls are made of strong stuff and a little advert in the Morpeth Herald, dated 5th January 1886, shows that Mary Ellen continues to run the business. Just how long Mary Ellen runs the draper’s shop I haven’t been able to ascertain but at some point after 1891 she, together with three of her children, returns to her childhood home (now 34-36 Front Street East) to live with her brother Philip Hedley and her father Henry. Mary Ellen dies there just 3 days before Cristmas in 1901 aged 49 years. (Morpeth Herald dated 28th December 1901). Mary Ellen’s sister, Jane Elizabeth, born about 1842, marries enginewright John Archbold 1863. Once married the couple live a somewhat nomadic life moving from the North East, first to Ryton in County Durham then to South Yorkshire, where John obtains work as a colliery engineer. They remain in Yorkshire only a short while before moving to Derby and finally to Nottinghamshire where they settle in Greasley. They manage to have six children along the way and John’s work includes three years in China but it’s not clear if Jane accompanies him. John dies in Greasley in 1897 and he seems to have been a well-respected man. Jane Elizabeth and her children remain in Greasley after John’s death and she dies there in 1918. Back in Bedlington, Henry has continued to run the Ironmongery business and when sons Philip and William are old enough they are introduced into it. In 1871 Philip, then about 24 years old, is already his father’s assistant. William, then 16 years old, doesn’t seem to enter the business immediately. He works first as a clerk. possibly in Newcastle as it is there he is registered in 1871 whilst at the home of a family friend – 56 year-old railway mineral inspector Cuthbert Davidson and his family. However, he is later registered in Bedlington and enters his father’s business between 1871 and 1881. With William’s return to Bedlington there are now three family members in the business. Henry is still an ironmonger and still head of the family. He is however, in 1881, a widower having lost his wife in 1874. His son Philip is no longer his assistant but has himself aspired to the rank of ’ironmonger’ and has also branched out into the world of banking – albeit as an agent. The winds of change are blowing through the nail industry. Where will the Gibson family go from here? To be continued .....

@HIGH PIT WILMADigress all you like bonny lad! The 'ramblings' of one with first-hand knowledge are worth their weight in gold.

Nice! I like the idea of the community drop-ins.

Did I understand you correctly, Vic, - your electricity comes from waterpower?

Same here. The biggest distributor is in fact called Waterfall.

The news bulletin was just released on Friday night. What Northvolt have said is that "1 600 jobs must go". From what I understand, 1 000 of these jobs are at the factory, 400 are at the labs for product development and 200 at the head office in Stockholm so they are spread over the whole company. As yet nobody has been given notice of termination of employment, so you won't see any changes yet. Just a couple of weeks ago they were talking about just 300 jobs that must go! Naturally, the unions are up in arms. I think most people have expected this as Northvolt has been experiencing a financial crisis for a couple of years now and bankruptcy has been up for discussion on several occasions.

Breaking News - Northvolt have just announced that 1 600 jobs must go at the Skellefteå factory! I wonder what they'll do with all the housing that was built especially to accommodate the workforce that was 'needed'. I agree with you, Vic, that tidal energy is worth looking at more closely. The tides are reliant on the sun and the moon and they aren't going anywhere so they should be a constant, reliable source. Sweden doesn't have a great deal of tidal water so it's maybe not the best option here but the Faroe Islands (Denmark) are investing heavily in tidal energy, planting 'kites' on the ocean floor that then sway in the tidal waters just as real kites sway in the air. They are planning on being totally converted to tidal power by 2030 so that project is worth watching.

Pity they aren't interested in establishing themselves here! Northvolt premises should be available soon! They promised the earth but despite having thousands employed they haven't been able to produce more than 5% of what they promised. BMW, one of their biggest investors has withdrawn an order for billions because Northvolt simply isn't meeting the promised production and Scania have done likewise. Plans for a further three factories has been placed on hold. Soon there won't be any need for batteries here as sales of EVs has plummeted because of the uncertainty. Having said that, it hasn't helped that Northvolt has had a spate of 'mysterious deaths 'at their factory this year or that petrol prices have reached an all-time low.

No way!

This link that you posted in topic: Obituary still works. https://www.newmp.org.uk/memimages/05. Enlistment Project Compiled Version.pdf

Hi @Miner Granddaughter and welcome to the forum. Bridge Inn, East End, Bedlington has nothing to do with Hartford Bridge Inn. Bridge Inn, East End was located on the main street (Front Street) in Bedlington’s East End on the corner of Walker Terrace. The following map, dated 1859, is not particularly clear but Bridge Inn is in fact named. It can be seen somewhat better, though not named, on the map from 1860. The best map I can find is 1897 which shows the Bridge Inn (marked red) and the Wheatsheaf, its close neighbour, marked blue, on the corner of Chapel Row. In the extract from Evan Martin’s book, which Alan posted above, Robert Leslie is named as the innkeeper of Bridge Inn, East End. I found him in the 1881 census in the building marked red on the above maps - on the corner of Front Street and Walker Terrace.

It's horrendous to think that is just a couple of generations ago. We have it very easy with today's working conditions yet there are still those who complain.

Oh happy days! That brought back a few memories

Thanks HPW! I read a wonderful book some years ago called the The White Slaves of Britain which described vividly the social conditions of 19th century Britain. Some of these "white slaves" were women and children working in Britain's coal mines. The woman would be shackled to a 'cart' (sometimes called a corv) in exactly the way you describe. with a chain from a belt around her waist. She was then called a 'hurrier'. It's the one and only time I've ever seen that word and I've never been able to find its origins. With no child-minding facilities, and needing money, she would have her children, as young as 4 years old, employed in the mine as well - the cheapest of labour. They would push the cart from behind to assist her and they were called 'thrusters' or 'putters'. These people worked in tunnels only 60 cm high. Thank heavens as things got better the tunnels were high enough to stand up in and eventually enough to get a small horse into.

Thanks HPW! I knew I could rely on you to come up with the answer! Am I right in understanding that "putting" the tubs could involve either 'pushing' by hand or 'pulling' by horses? I'm asking from a purely linguistic interest in the development of the word 'putting'. I'm wondering if putters might have replaced cartmen doing basically the same work. Tommy the cartman at Netherton was about the same age as my father (born 1900) so he would have been working before 1920. I think my father started working in the pits at 13½. I must admit that I'd never thought about the coal allowance as being in lieu of wages but it leads me to another question. My father died when I was a teenager but my mother and her children lived on in the colliery house and she received a coal allowance. My older brothers were miners but already married and living elsewhere, though not in miners accommodation. The one brother still at home wasn't a miner. Was this a common thing - a kind of widow's allowance - that coal miner's widows continued to be provided with coal and housing? I don't know if my mother had to pay rent or not.

I started by looking for marriages between a male Ivison and a female Warnes and followed up by by looking for an Ivison in passenger lists for Australia 1927. I had a stroke of luck when Robert, Bertha and your mother Margaret Audrey turned up. Even better was that they were accompanied by George Alfred Warnes, his wife and son! I worked backwards from him - if that makes any sense! I've started sending you some files. Hope you enjoy their content.

Just remembered this wonderful site: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=787374.0 P.S. It would be interesting to know the year that the above birth certificate was issued.

I'm not sure I agree that a putter and a cartman ar the same thing. From a purely lexical point of view I believe a putter ’pushed’ tubs. From about the 12th century the word put, meaning to push or shove, was in common use. By the time the 16th century came around its meaning had been extended to include the meanig throw or hurl. It’s obsolete today but lives on to a degree in the highland sport of ’putting the shot’ and in the golfing terms ’put/putter’. Even our everyday word ’put’, meaning to place something in a certain position, has the same roots: Old English putian, Middle English potte. The word putter is in evidence very often in the early 19th century with the meaning ”one who throws (a stone or heavy weight)” and as early as 1743 for a type of golf club. To me it seems logical to extend its use to one who pushes/shoves coaltubs. Also, I’ve never heard of a coaltub being referred to as a cart. We need HPW on this one!!

Hi again Margaret! Alan is right. It's not wise to have your e-post floating about on the Internet, even if this site is deemed to be a safe site. I've made a note of your e-post so it's OK by me to have it removed. I'm happy to have helped with your question about the Warnes family and I'll get the files off to you, hopefully today but if not it'll be tomorrow. I'm assuming that I was right about the names of your mother and grandmother? Everything else is related to that being correct.

A cartman was simply a colliery worker who drove a horse and cart either underground or above ground whenever transport was needed for goods, equipment or even workers. From my own experience, I remember 'Tommy the coalman' in Netherton Colliery in the fifties. Miners, then, received an allowance of free coal and my father's allowance was delivered to us, and everybody else in Netherton, by horse & cart driven by Tommy the coalman as he was known to everybody. My father, however, had earlier worked with Tommy underground where Tommy was a cartman. Lung problems forced Tommy to exchange underground work at the colliery for above ground work - still employed by the colliery. Delivering the coal allowance then became a major part of his work. My father never referred to him as Tommy the coalman. To him Tommy was always Tommy the cartman.

@Margaret Daley Hi again, Margaret, I think there has been some misunderstanding. Usually when we talk about ”Shiney Row” and ”Railway cottages” in this forum we are referring to the street shown in the above photo and the two cottages at its eastern end. I’ve had a look at your question about the Warnes family in Shiney Row and if your grandmother was Bertha Warnes and your mother Margaret Audrey Ivison then I’m afraid you’re in the wrong Shiney Row. They had their roots not in the street Shiney Row, in Bedlington, but in the village of Shiney Row located about 30 miles south of Bedlington in Penshaw, County Durham . Your great great grandfather William Warnes, born in Norfolk, lived there from about 1881 until his death in 1925 manning the railway signal box at Penshaw junction and occupying one of four cottages reserved for the job – Railway cottages (marked blue on the map below). Shiney Row is today included in the greater area of Houghton - le - Spring. It’s an easy mistake to make. However, your grandmother, Bertha did have some connection with the Bedlington area as your mother’s birth is registered in Ashington (Morpeth registration district) in 1926. There have been several families of Warnes in the Bedlingtonshire area – though not in the town of Bedlington. They lived predominantly in Cambois, which is located in Bedlingtonshire, but seem to have spread themselves over the years to Ashington and Pegswood. The earliest Warnes I’ve found arrived about the same time as William (Late 1800s) and were, like him, also from Norfolk so they may all be related and there may well be Warnes even today. If you would like any of the documentation related to this you can message me an e-mail address and I'll send the files on to you.