Canny lass

Oh happy days! That brought back a few memories

Thanks HPW! I read a wonderful book some years ago called the The White Slaves of Britain which described vividly the social conditions of 19th century Britain. Some of these "white slaves" were women and children working in Britain's coal mines. The woman would be shackled to a 'cart' (sometimes called a corv) in exactly the way you describe. with a chain from a belt around her waist. She was then called a 'hurrier'. It's the one and only time I've ever seen that word and I've never been able to find its origins. With no child-minding facilities, and needing money, she would have her children, as young as 4 years old, employed in the mine as well - the cheapest of labour. They would push the cart from behind to assist her and they were called 'thrusters' or 'putters'. These people worked in tunnels only 60 cm high. Thank heavens as things got better the tunnels were high enough to stand up in and eventually enough to get a small horse into.

Thanks HPW! I knew I could rely on you to come up with the answer! Am I right in understanding that "putting" the tubs could involve either 'pushing' by hand or 'pulling' by horses? I'm asking from a purely linguistic interest in the development of the word 'putting'. I'm wondering if putters might have replaced cartmen doing basically the same work. Tommy the cartman at Netherton was about the same age as my father (born 1900) so he would have been working before 1920. I think my father started working in the pits at 13½. I must admit that I'd never thought about the coal allowance as being in lieu of wages but it leads me to another question. My father died when I was a teenager but my mother and her children lived on in the colliery house and she received a coal allowance. My older brothers were miners but already married and living elsewhere, though not in miners accommodation. The one brother still at home wasn't a miner. Was this a common thing - a kind of widow's allowance - that coal miner's widows continued to be provided with coal and housing? I don't know if my mother had to pay rent or not.

I started by looking for marriages between a male Ivison and a female Warnes and followed up by by looking for an Ivison in passenger lists for Australia 1927. I had a stroke of luck when Robert, Bertha and your mother Margaret Audrey turned up. Even better was that they were accompanied by George Alfred Warnes, his wife and son! I worked backwards from him - if that makes any sense! I've started sending you some files. Hope you enjoy their content.

Just remembered this wonderful site: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=787374.0 P.S. It would be interesting to know the year that the above birth certificate was issued.

I'm not sure I agree that a putter and a cartman ar the same thing. From a purely lexical point of view I believe a putter ’pushed’ tubs. From about the 12th century the word put, meaning to push or shove, was in common use. By the time the 16th century came around its meaning had been extended to include the meanig throw or hurl. It’s obsolete today but lives on to a degree in the highland sport of ’putting the shot’ and in the golfing terms ’put/putter’. Even our everyday word ’put’, meaning to place something in a certain position, has the same roots: Old English putian, Middle English potte. The word putter is in evidence very often in the early 19th century with the meaning ”one who throws (a stone or heavy weight)” and as early as 1743 for a type of golf club. To me it seems logical to extend its use to one who pushes/shoves coaltubs. Also, I’ve never heard of a coaltub being referred to as a cart. We need HPW on this one!!

Hi again Margaret! Alan is right. It's not wise to have your e-post floating about on the Internet, even if this site is deemed to be a safe site. I've made a note of your e-post so it's OK by me to have it removed. I'm happy to have helped with your question about the Warnes family and I'll get the files off to you, hopefully today but if not it'll be tomorrow. I'm assuming that I was right about the names of your mother and grandmother? Everything else is related to that being correct.

A cartman was simply a colliery worker who drove a horse and cart either underground or above ground whenever transport was needed for goods, equipment or even workers. From my own experience, I remember 'Tommy the coalman' in Netherton Colliery in the fifties. Miners, then, received an allowance of free coal and my father's allowance was delivered to us, and everybody else in Netherton, by horse & cart driven by Tommy the coalman as he was known to everybody. My father, however, had earlier worked with Tommy underground where Tommy was a cartman. Lung problems forced Tommy to exchange underground work at the colliery for above ground work - still employed by the colliery. Delivering the coal allowance then became a major part of his work. My father never referred to him as Tommy the coalman. To him Tommy was always Tommy the cartman.

@Margaret Daley Hi again, Margaret, I think there has been some misunderstanding. Usually when we talk about ”Shiney Row” and ”Railway cottages” in this forum we are referring to the street shown in the above photo and the two cottages at its eastern end. I’ve had a look at your question about the Warnes family in Shiney Row and if your grandmother was Bertha Warnes and your mother Margaret Audrey Ivison then I’m afraid you’re in the wrong Shiney Row. They had their roots not in the street Shiney Row, in Bedlington, but in the village of Shiney Row located about 30 miles south of Bedlington in Penshaw, County Durham . Your great great grandfather William Warnes, born in Norfolk, lived there from about 1881 until his death in 1925 manning the railway signal box at Penshaw junction and occupying one of four cottages reserved for the job – Railway cottages (marked blue on the map below). Shiney Row is today included in the greater area of Houghton - le - Spring. It’s an easy mistake to make. However, your grandmother, Bertha did have some connection with the Bedlington area as your mother’s birth is registered in Ashington (Morpeth registration district) in 1926. There have been several families of Warnes in the Bedlingtonshire area – though not in the town of Bedlington. They lived predominantly in Cambois, which is located in Bedlingtonshire, but seem to have spread themselves over the years to Ashington and Pegswood. The earliest Warnes I’ve found arrived about the same time as William (Late 1800s) and were, like him, also from Norfolk so they may all be related and there may well be Warnes even today. If you would like any of the documentation related to this you can message me an e-mail address and I'll send the files on to you.

Hi again Roz I had a look at the entry for your gran in the 1921 census. Your gran’s uncle, David Gray who completed the census form, has a very clear style of hand-writing and I don’t think there’s any doubt that your gran was attending Hall Lindler Academy on a full-time basis. You thought 17 years of age was a bit old to be engaged in full time studies but it’s worth bearing in mind that the 1920s was a ’boom’ time for women’s education. The school-leaving age had risen from 12 – 14 just a couple of years earlier in 1918 and, perhaps more important, women were also given the vote that year - albeit not on the same terms as men! The suffrage movement fought not only for voting rights but for women’s rights in general including the right to education. Further education was becoming popular among the working classes and towards the end of the 1800s even the male dominated Mechanics Institute was allowing women to attend its courses. So there was a lot happening on the educational front for women! I’ve been researching Bedlington and its nearest neighbours for 14 years now and I haven’t ever stumbled across Hall Lindler Academy. That, however, is not to say that it didn’t exist in Bedlingtonshire or anywhere else. Also worth bearing in mind is that the word ’academy’ in 1920 shouldn’t be confused with the same word used today for many establishments for full time secondary education. There were two types of academy: those who’s aim was to advance science, art and literature and those whose aim was to give training in a special field or skill – especially those skills which were useful/needed for employment. The latter arranged courses in just about anything: shorthand, typing, languages, mechanics, woodwork etc. and the courses could range from weeks to years. So, while your gran was engaged in in whole-time studies it may only have been on a short course. I note that David Gray was working for the Coal Company in a white collar position, as he was a clerk (which would account for his neat hand writing!). Perhaps he could have encouraged your gran to move away from the then traditional, factory, serving girl, housekeeper and laundress type of jobs in favour of the ’cleaner’ jobs of bookkeeping, typing, teaching and clerical work. These, together with dressmaking and shop work, were the areas where women predominantly worked in the 1920s. I note that Mary Jane and her husband are living apart a few years after their marriage. Mary Jane and her daughter – your mother – are living in Belford and her husband John Robert is living in Gosforth. While household duties are given as Mary Jane’s occupation, could she have been living there by reason of some earlier special employment? Perhaps you know something of her employment prior to her marriage. That could give some indication of the nature of her education. Sorry I couldn’t be of more help in unravelling the mystery of Hall Lindler Academy but I hope this has given you something to think about.

@Roz S Hi Roz S and welcome to the Bedlington forum. What was your grandmother's name and where was she living in 1921? I'll have a look at it and see if I can make sense of it for you.

@Margaret DaleyHi Margaret and welcome to the forum! I'm afraid Shiney Row no longer exists and neither does the coal-mine (the Doctor Pit) but this is what it looked like. Shiney Row is the row of houses on the right. The small buildings opposite are Shiney Row's toilets and coal sheds. Railway cottages were two in number and located at the far end of the street adjacent to the pit head and the railway line which was used to take coal to the port. They later became known as Dr Pit cottages. Visit the gallery and search for 'Shiney Row and Doctor Pit' to see more of the immediate area. If you can give me any more information about your grandmother and mother (ex. full name, date of birth, parents names, place of birth) I'll see what I can find out. If you don't want to give information here you can message me. Just move your marker over my 'hat' and choose 'message' on the bottom line.

It wouldn't be Howlett's on Brick Lane by any chance?

No

Because I have the right to free speech. More in Common, who conducted this survey, may do smaller surveys on the street but most info is collected online and often through focus groups. Read their bio. I’m sure you can but knowing what amount that thousand people is representative of helps create a clearer picture of the credibility of the poll. Knowing how they were chosen is also helpful. I don’t teach statistics, or anything else, and I conclude from your description of polling anno 2024 that you don’t either. However I do still work but I leave the desk jobs to my employees. You? I’m not implying anything. I’m simply quoting the article. No other parties are mentioned. Interesting! I thought it might be. This screenshot is what I see when I look at The Telegraph at 18.00 GMT. No results are shown and there are now 8 342 individuals who have taken part. In other words the survey is still taking place - 972 additions in the last few hours.

Re the above posted poll results: The British electorate 2021 (last info available) is approximately 50 000 000. Approximately 2 500 people took part in this poll - assuming it was limited to one entry per person - so this poll represents the opinion of less that 0.005% of that electorate. It is an extremely small percentage of the electorate who have bothered themselves to respond to this poll. That in itself says a lot about what the electorate think. Having said that, all polls – even when weighted according to age/sex/2024 GE vote, ethnicity and education level - are subject to a wide range of potential sources of error. The same article, I believe, doesn’t paint a great picture of the Tory party either: ”More than half (53 per cent) also said they thought Labour was somewhat or very corrupt, compared with two-thirds who said the same of the Tories. More than four in 10 believe both Labour and the Tories are “equally likely to make corrupt decisions or give senior roles to their friends and allies”. ” (The Telegraph, Nick Gutteridge, Chief Political Correspondent and Dominic Penna, Political Correspondent 29 August 2024 • 12:31am). ’A rock and a hard place’ springs readily to mind! Is it any wonder people don’t get off their backsides to go and vote.

The General Erection is over! (No, that's not too much FHF). Actually, erection - election is not a bad analogy. The first churns out large quantities of sperm the second churns out large quantities of promises and it's only a miniscule percentage of either that ever come to fruition. I'm afraid I gave up listening quite some time ago but, if you are wondering, I DO use my vote. Women have died to obtain it for me. We'll soon have the American erection to cheer us up.

Part 3 To recap: After her husband’s death in 1846 Ann inherited the business, and her three sons Philip, James and Henry took on a managerial role in its running. Philip and James appear to have been involved in all aspects of the business, grocer, ironmonger and blacksmith, as well as chain and nail manufacture while Henry seems to concentrate only on the latter. It’s worth mentioning here that the Victorian ironmonger wasn’t necessarily the keeper of a shop serving the needs of housewives and every type of tradesman. The Industrial Revolution required mass production of goods and, according to Wikipedia, ”in the areas where ironware and nails were manufactured, particularly in the Black Country, an ironmonger was a manufacturer operating under the domestic system” (cottage industry) ”who put out iron to smiths, nailers, or other metal workers, and then organised the distribution of the finished products to retailers.” I haven’t been able to find any records of an ironmonger’s shop so the above type of ironmongery could be a possibility with Henry managing any forge/workshop and his two brothers running the cottage industry. However, that’s just speculation on my part. However, by 1861 Ann is employing 16 men in the business. Son, Philip, who had become an engineer and moved to Cumberland, died in 1858, leaving James and Henry to shoulder the management of Ann’s business. Ann herself dies just a few years later in 1868 and it is then we can start to see a move away from the iron industry. Looking at the two brothers individually, James in 1871 is still a manager of the family business of nail & chain manufacture and ironmongery, and is employing 17 men. However, he is no longer a Bedlington resident. Having married in 1863 he exchanges the parental home on Front Street East for a house on Malvin’s Close in Cowpen where he lives with his wife, Sarah, and six children. Besides the family business James has also acquired another string to his fiddle – ”comission agent, life and fire agent” which sounds like he’s possibly working for some sort of insurance company. James dies in 1878 aged 48 years leaving his wife with 7 children, 4 girls and three boys, aged between 1 and 14. He doesn’t seem to have done too badly for himself and is able to leave Sarah and the family with a regular income in the form of an annuity enabling them live in the fashionable Spring Garden House in Bullers Green, Morpeth after his death. It may well also have been James’ home prior to his death as his son Philip Edmund Gibson attended Morpeth Grammar School before going on to London University. Sarah and the family later moved to Elswick, Newcastle from where Sarah originated. At the time of James’ death his boys were between a few months and seven years old and couldn’t take over any part of his business and neither of them entered the business later in life. The oldest, Philip Edmund, became a bank clerk. His younger brother Stanley became an electrical engineer and moved to Warwickshire while the youngest of the brothers, Oswald, became a farmer and moved to Canada. So, it was now left to James’ brother Henry to carry on the family business. Henry, 44 years old at the time of his mother’s death, had married Mary Hedley in or around 1837 and left the parental home on Front Street East, living first at the top end of Bedlington, almost opposite the police station on the south side of the street and later on Front Street East, still on the south side and six doors down from the Black Bull public house. His occupation in 1871 is described not as manager but as ”foreman” in a ”nail manufactory” – presumably the family’s business. Shortly before, or shortly after, his mother’s death Henry and his family return to live in his former childhood home on the north side of Front Street east, the house known today as 34 and 36 Front Street East. Henry now gives his occupation as i”ronmonger” though, as I said earlier, I’m uncertain just what he means by this. Henry and Mary have six children, that I know of: Ann, born about 1937 Jane, born about 1842 Philip Hedley, born about 1847 Hannah, born about 1850 Mary, born about 1852 William James, born about 1855 The long gaps between some births suggest that there may have been others who may have died in childhood. However, Henry does have sons who can follow him into the business, Philip Hedley and William James, but will they do so or will they go in other directions? To be continued …

I'll just get my tap shoes out of retirement and I'll be right behind you!

Eggy, I see you had a question earlier about how the pit rows were named. My experience in researching the pit villages has shown that many of them have three names in common: Wood Row, Stone Row, Brick Row and the explanation, I believe, is that there weren't any 'official' street names until postal services were developed. Originally one row of wooden houses sufficed for the small pits and it had no name. Wood was cheap and houses could be quickly erected. Later, as production expanded, more houses were needed and a new row was built - in stone. Residents distinguished their place of abode as either the wood row or the stone row. Later houses were built of brick and these were referred to as the brick row. When postal addresses were introduced these names became 'official'. It's a pattern seen in many many collieries.

@7RIrF Hi James, Wood Row was located between Double Row and Chapel Row in Barrington Colliery. That part of the 1901 census you posted shows schedule numbers 127 – 130. If you move a long a few pages to schedule nr 143 (still on Wood Street) you’ll see that the Post Office was situated in that house (probably looked after by the lady of the house, Marg. Ross). This bit of info makes it easier to identify Wood Street on the 1898 map which Eggy posted above as the post office is clearly marked PO. On the map from 1924 Wood Row no longer exists - probably demolished because of its deplorable state.

I remember there being an attempt a few years ago to publish a newspaper 'without bias'. The publication was simply called 'i' and was, I think, started by The Independent. I gave it a quick Google today and it's still going strong but it is now said to have a centre-left political flavour.

Bleezer, there's a lovely word from my past. The bleezer was the cause of at least half - and possibly all - chimney fires in Netherton colliery, when it caught fire and ignited the soot in the chimney. I can't remember there ever being a chimney sweep in the colliery and chimney fires were a monthly occurrence.