Canny lass

On 2016-07-19 at 02:07, threegee said:

I've explained why this article is authoritative in the reply to CL.

No you didn't. 

You claimed that the article must be correct because you knew of "direct lines to the Tory government". That does not make any newspaper article authorative. You havent yet been able to prove the existence of these direct lines or indeed that the information which they convey is correct. I await the names of these s.c. 'direct lines'

15 hours ago, threegee said:

"It’s enough that it’s a newspaper!"  Wow, how nice to live in a world of absolutes, and such certainty!

Time after time you've done nothing of the sort. University degrees don't trump hard experience - the rehearsal is not the show!  You repeatedly talk down the press, and talk up academics, yet the same economic forces hold for both.  So, what precisely have I claimed to be an expert on?  Here you've plucked a remark I made in a photo comment about TV aerials from over half a century ago in order to disparage me, and done so without any knowledge of my engineering and financial management experience or accomplishments.  I think that maybe your "specializing in one subject" could be viewed as the apocryphal person with a hammer (i.e. viewing everything as a nail). The world has more facets than any of us can ever behold, and a full appreciation of that fact only comes through age and experience - and certainly not through lexical analysis.

On your second "challenge":  You know that I can only speak from experience.  My experience is that practically everything that appears in the Telegraph about the Tory party will turn out to be correct, and that's not the case with any other publication.  Obviously journalists don't (and mostly can't) reveal their sources, but (libel laws aside) they do have reputations to maintain, and thrive or not by their acquired reputations. No, you can't simply dismiss it with a trite they "manipulate text to sell copies".  I suspect that many academics only maintain their reputations by proxy i.e. much of what they churn out is so thoroughly uninteresting that no one critical ever studies it.  And, whether is is relevant or not to the ascent of man becomes itself a proxy issue.

BTW I have not the faintest idea of what an "Oxford comma" is!

" Wow, how nice to live in a world of absolutes, and such certainty!”

Well, you would know all about that.

“Time after time you've done nothing of the sort.“

Then you haven’t been paying attention you naughty boy!

“University degrees don't trump hard experience”

No, indeed they don’t. How fortunate that I had 25 years of hard graft in nursing to complement them, before joining academia at the age of 50. I have three nursing qualifications so, 6 of those years were spent as the lowest of the low (student) cleaning up bucket loads of every unpleasantness that the human body can possibly exude from its many orifices. I also had to clean the bucket!

“You repeatedly talk down the press and talk up academics”

I repeatedly complain that the press is unreliable but, as far as I remember, I have only discussed ONE academic. That’s hardly “repeatedly”.

“So, what precisely have I claimed to be an expert on?”

You don’t overtly claim to be expert on anything. However, in applying Boolean logic, viz. everything anyone else says is wrong so everything I say must be right, you are taking a firm stance for being an expert on everything.

“Here you've plucked a remark I made in a photo comment about TV aerials from over half a century ago in order to disparage me”

I plucked the remark from my memory of having rented a TV from you many years ago and I did not do it to disparage you. How can that be disparaging? Didn’t you just say that “hard experience” is at least as valuable, if not better, than university degrees?

“without any knowledge of my engineering and financial management experience or accomplishments.”

 Are you sure?

“I think that maybe your "specializing in one subject" could be viewed as the apocryphal person with a hammer (i.e. viewing everything as a nail).”

It could be viewed as many things – but only by someone with an open and receptive mind, so I’m not unduly worried by that remark.

“The world has more facets than any of us can ever behold”

Agreed.

… “and a full appreciation of that fact only comes through age and experience”

Agree, but only in part.  Age and experience do allow us to appreciate that the world has more facets than any of us can ever behold – but it’s not ONLY age and experience that allow us to do this. My 9 year old grandson, to give just one example, has neither age nor experience on his side and is never the less able to appreciate the same thing every time he sits down to his homework.

…  “and certainly not through lexical analysis.”

Can’t agree with you there, I’m afraid. It’s a darned good complement to age and experience – providing you understand it.

“On your second "challenge":  You know that I can only speak from experience.”

I know nothing of the sort! When speaking from experience and not stating proven facts it is usual to introduce a degree of modality into the sentence, such as:

It may be so that …., Possibly…., In my experience…, I believe… or even “My experience is” …. I do not see any of these in your statement that The Telegraph “has multiple direct lines into the heart of the Tory government”. You are making an assertion. You are not alone. Newspapers do it all the time.

“My experience is that practically everything that appears in the Telegraph about the Tory party will turn out to be correct, and that's not the case with any other publication. “

Wow, how nice to live in a world of absolute certainty!

“Obviously journalists don't (and mostly can't) reveal their sources, but (libel laws aside) they do have reputations to maintain, and thrive or not by their acquired reputations.”

Well, they are clearly revealing their sources to someone, as you seem to know all about them. And, why doesn’t that assertion apply equally well to professors?

“No, you can't simply dismiss it with a trite they "manipulate text to sell copies". “

I just did. Prove me wrong. Give me the names of the direct lines I asked for, which you clearly have information on.

“I suspect that many academics only maintain their reputations by proxy i.e. much of what they churn out is so thoroughly uninteresting that no one critical ever studies it.” 

Well, that’s an improvement. You are “suspecting” rather than asserting. You’ll get the hang of this credibility thing soon, I’m sure of it (BTW,you’re doing well with your reduced use of adjectives. Much more pleasant to read. Keep up the good work)!

No proxy involved, I’m afraid. If research is to be published as a free standing work, I believe it must first go to opposition by his/her own departmental peers and the current leading authority (it's not only the credibility of the professor that's at stake but even that of the university). Invited to the opposition are any other academics with an interest from within or without the university. It may surprise you to learn that they churn out some very interesting things – for those who are themselves interested.

These works are very critically studied by everyone undertaking post-graduate studies. It’s all part of the course..

Why are you deriding the educational system of your own beloved country?

“BTW I have not the faintest idea of what an "Oxford comma" is! ” 

When you see an English word

Which you haven’t ever heard

Don’t dismiss it at first sight

Look it up and get it right.

Can’t remember for the life of me who said that. May have been Göran Rönnerdal, but don’t quote me on that. Not even sure if it is word for word, so no quotation marks, but I’m sure you get the drift.

SEEK HELP! You are sick!

I am not implying that an emergency budget may be necessary. I am merely pointing out that not all newspapers agree with the newspapers you quote.

If you don't use your vote that's entirely your business.

You may criticise whoever you wish - but, SO MAY EVERYONE ELSE!

Cameron is a proven liar Farage is a proven liar, Osborne is a proven liar, the Millibands were proven liars. It's apparently only you who tells the truth.

"Refer me to a copy of this constitution that I disparage, and point out this actual disparagement please?" The UK constitution has no single document to which I can refer you, We have an uncodified constitution, being as it is the accumulated laws and principles of the land. Therefore I must refer you to ALL acts of parliament, statutes and treaties - including those you disparage: human rights relating to freedom of speech and religion being top of the list. I've pointed them out to you on several occasions. (use the search facility).

Of course I criticise - you do not have sole right to criticism. I clearly criticise newspapers and your interpretation of their content.

I would be talking about the law of the UK. I have no religion and do not favour either Shariah law or the ten commandments.

According to my information, there have been no rapes,  or other atrocities committed by Muslim "refugees" in Sweden this week.

is Sweden a basket case? I'm not qualified to say. I've only lived here thirty years. You would probably know better.

What happens in France, while tragic, is not affecting me one bit.

I am not an apologist for a primitive belief set. I do not believe one word written in the bible - or any other holy book.

I have not given any school marm lecture (believe me you would know if I had) Perhaps you are just feeling like a naughty boy in a corner? Neither am I trying to frighten you. What I am doing is using my right to point out deficiencies (i think that's what you called it).

Did anybody say you should be ashamed of anything? I wonder why that thought came into your head?

I've said it before and I'm saying it again. It is not my intention to threaten you yet you are clearly feeling threatened. I am trying to show you that there are two sides to every story. OK, you own this sand pit and you can throw me out whenever you wish. However, if you've also invested in your own bucket and spade then I suggest you use them to dig yourself out of the hole you are presently digging yourself into.

18 hours ago, threegee said:

Quote

 

http://www.careeroverview.com/blog/2010/100-reliable-and-ridiculous-excuses-for-calling-out-of-work/

My choice:  #61. There was a car accident. (Because the driver started to discuss the linguistics of the screamed warning.)  That will surely do it!

I'm afraid this one's got me beat. I've sent it off to a few former colleagues to see if they can make head or tail of it. 

15 hours ago, threegee said:

“I would personally start thinking about emigrating to somewhere the economy is not going to collapse.”

Ken Livingstone -- June 2016

He also said that Boris Johnson would be next Prime Minister - and he isn't:

“The former London Mayor [Ken Livingstone] said Brexit would usher in Boris Johnson as Prime Minister so he would think about "emigrating to somewhere the economy is not going to collapse".

His comments, in his local newspaper the Ham and High, come just days after it was reported Labour bosses had blocked him from making media appearances after deciding he was "uncontrollable".”

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/73826/ken-livingstone-brexit-could-make-me-leave-country

"Someone who should be admired for "having the guts" to readily admit they were stupidly wrong." Really?

18 hours ago, threegee said:

The operative word was emergency,

The operative word was budget - seeing as emergency was used as a modifier.  

17 hours ago, threegee said:

I quoted from the Torygraph because it has multiple direct lines into the heart of the Tory government.  If I'd wanted to convey what Rupert Murdoch felt on an issue I'd quote from The Times. e.g. The Times got it quite wrong in it's "inside info" on some of May's appointments, though, granted, its mischief did put her into power.

I do not give a jot about where you quoted from. It’s enough that it’s a newspaper! You appear to be missing the whole point of my argumentation viz. NEWSPAPERS ARE NOT RELIABLE SOURCES OF INFORMATION! But then again, you appear to know about journalistic bias. You describe it perfectly in the first two sentences of the above quote.You could have added: 'and if I'd wanted to convey the truth I would have quoted the Beano'.

I am not arguing politics. In or out of the EU makes no difference to me. If we are in then nothing has changed. You and I will continue as we are – immigrants with Germanic surnames. If we are out then you and I will still be immigrants with Germanic surnames but we’ll then have one foot in each camp, so to speak.  

Time after time, on level after level, I have demonstrated that newspapers manipulate text to sell copies. I’m a linguist by profession. I work with text. Get over it! Oh, I'm forgetting, a university education and a handful of degrees mean nothing. Maybe, instead of specializing in one subject, I should have spent six years setting up television aerials instead and become an expert on everything.

Now, another challenge; you state quite categorically that The Telegraph “has multiple direct lines into the heart of the Tory government”. You state it  in a declarative sentence – That's to say, something which the writer knows to be true.  Name these multiple direct lines! If you can name them I personally will write to each and every one of them, ask if it's true, and publish their replies here (yes, I know that's an Oxford comma but I quite like them and they are rapidly gaining ground in the English language).

BTW the genitive 'its' has no apostrophe. Thought I'd just add a smiley because that seems to make everything alright.

21 hours ago, threegee said:

My feeling is that we don't need the BBC when we have you and CL to talk down the UK.

You use the verb ‘to talk down’ in its transitive form and are therefore accusing me of disparaging and belittling my country of birth. That’s a very serious accusation. May I just remind you that:

It’s not me who, publicly and almost daily, derides the work done by Her Majesty’s democratically elected, Government

It’s not me who, publicly and almost daily, applies derogative nicknames to the, democratically elected, Prime Ministers who have headed that government

It’s not me who criticizes the social security system of my own country

It’s not me who belittles the educational system of my own country

It’s not me who disparages the British constitution or the laws of my own country

And it’s certainly not me who derides fellow, law-abiding British citizens because of their ‘legally’ chosen religion in their own country!

SHAME ON YOU!!

A challenge; show me ONE instance of my disparaging the UK and I will show you ten instances of you doing that very same thing.

At least you are not 'off-topic' - things that will NOT happen!

the 'loca'l economy - is that the same thing as The Red Lion?

22 minutes ago, mercuryg said:

Current exchange rate dollar to pound, CL, nicely favourable for me! Just light of 76p to be precise!!

I was being cheeky, Merc! You said you were reverting to commenting on local issues.

4 minutes ago, mercuryg said:

Btw, dollar at 76p this morning. 

Would that be locally?

On 2016-07-16 at 00:27, threegee said:

"Philip Hammond, the new Chancellor of the Exchequer, has ruled out an emergency Budget following the UK’s vote to leave the EU."  -- The Telegraph

It's not only the Telegraph that's used "ruled out an emergency budget" in its headlines. Most of them, however, say something else in the text. Here's a small selection:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36792202

14 July 17, 2016: He added he did not anticipate the need for an emergency Budget as a result of the Brexit vote.

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/07/14/475139/Britain-Brexit-Philip-Hammond-Chancellor-Exchequer-Theresa-May

Hammond said in his first interview on Thursday morning as the Chancellor of the Exchequer that there will be no “plan for an emergency budget,” following the country’s June 23 vote to leave the European Union.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3689669/New-Chancellor-Philip-Hammond-says-NOT-Brexit-punishment-Budget-threatened-George-Osborne-takes-No-11.html#ixzz4EgTMNDsZ

Mr Hammond said: 'There is no plan for an emergency budget,

My comment: I have no plans for a holiday abroad next month, neither am I anticipating snow in September - does that rule out the possibility of either actually happening? 

On 2016-07-16 at 00:27, threegee said:

Cue for CL's analysis of HMG's use of the word "Immediate"

Sorry to disappoint you! I have no linguistic observations regarding either the form, function or the content of the word - within the given context - which are relevant to the topic under discussion. Better luck next try!

On 2016-07-16 at 00:27, threegee said:

"In a sign of the panic gripping the remain campaign, the chancellor plans to say that the hit to the economy will be so large that he will have little choice but to tear apart Conservative manifesto promises in an emergency budget delivered within weeks of an out vote."  -- The Guardian

I’m not really sure just what it is you wish to illustrate with this quote. I’ve now read this article, from 14 June (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/14/osborne-predicts-30bn-hole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu) and assume it is the article from which the quote was taken (the source given was somewhat incomplete).

While I am aware that many blunders, on occasions howlers, have escaped the lips of George Osborne – and indeed every other, so-called politician during the referendum campaign – I have to point out that this article, in its entirety, does not relate to anything ‘said’ by Mr. Osborne but to something which Mr. Osborne “plans to say” (1st row, words 13-15 of your quote). In other words a reporter is saying what Mr. Osborne will be saying at some anonymous event at some time in the future.

On 2016-07-16 at 00:27, threegee said:

I wouldn't like to have you driving me. Doubtless someone in the vehicle spotting an emergency road situation would trigger a discussion on linguistics of their screamed warning

My dear 3g, I really thought that your imagination had reached the limit of its capabilities with the question of “outbreeding”. Clearly, I was wrong! Your imagining that you and I could ever find ourselves in the same vehicle – especially with me as your chauffeur - is surpassed only by your imagining that anyone else would want to be in that vehicle at the same time! It is, therefore, my opinion that, in the event of such a screamed warning, there wouldn't be anybody in the vehicle with whom I could have a sensible discussion. However, it may surprise you to learn that even screams have linguistic properties – ask any mother with a 6 month old baby.

17 minutes ago, mercuryg said:

Bribed with a pint? Me? Not a chance! I don't do the evil drink! You are, of course, more than welcome to join me in the window seat, where I shall enjoy a fresh lemonade and lime with you.

I think you must have spelled 'lemonade' wrongly when listing your interests. How many does this 'window seat' accommodate?

If I could like that twice, I would!

There's always someone to put a spanner in the works! We'll have to work on him! Could he be bribed with a pint?

You wouldn't do a bad job yourself, Vic!

Happy birthday, Ovalteeny and thanks for some really good music.

Lovely pics Foxy1 I must get over to Bedlington for this next year. Can you book table 25 for me for the next picnic? Merc can you abandon table 36? (the one with radiator and street view) for my visit? Maggie, have you got a bed available? Anybody, have you got a bed available?

2 hours ago, webtrekker said:

I support Andy's stance entirely.

Yes, things may have been politically motivated as of late, but the success of any forum depends upon, not only the number of members, but particularly the number of members who actually post replies and start new topics. I've noticed there have been times when no new posts were made over long periods of time. That's not good. So why don't members who are tired of all the political posts start inundating the forum with their own news, gossip and ideas, to balance the mix?

Any takers?

I'm with you on most of that Webtrekker! However, sometimes a post seems to go dead, only to be revived when a new member or a new piece of information comes along. The Bedlington tunnels is just one example. Until now, I've thought of the Bedlington tunnels as something that go between table 25 at the Red Lion and other pubs in the area. It's nice when they suddenly pop up again with a new angle.

6 hours ago, Andy (4G) said:

Perhaps we could have a politics forum to separate these out for those not interested? It's important to not suppress these discussions as these are obviously very important even though they may be polarising at times.

That is one of the best suggestions ever made on this site. Well done!