Canny lass

14 hours ago, pilgrim said:

deet is good but does tend to rot clothing and is NOT water soluble. 

Does this mean I could put it on at the beginning of my week and that's it? Doesn't come off in the shower, sea or swimming pool! Sounds good to me!

Another week before i go, Maggie. Everything arranged att short notice so no preparation, otherwise I'd have been gleaning as much information as possible on Internet and in books. We are two 'old ladies' with a return ticket, a rented car, one pre-booked hotel night and an open mind. We'll take it from there!

It's funny you should say that, ex Bed., the forestry workers here swear by it! I might give it a try.

Thanks ex Bedlingtonian! I'll put the Villa Romana del Casale on my agenda. Etna was already on it as it, and the Maffia, amount roughly to my total knowledge of Sicily. 

3G - "the English drink too much" is an infinitely better reputation than that of the Scandinavians who, according to the spanish, "drink to get drunk". I'll do my best to avoid both by behaving sensibly!

Good advice on mozzies. I'll see that I'm "well-oiled", so to speak. Not too worried about Zika though. My chances of becoming pregnant are zero.

2 hours ago, threegee said:

Been?!!   We'll yes I have, but it has changed a tiny bit since.  I'm still waiting for the Messina Bridge (local joke)!

Just at the moment it's pretty warm (for Northern Europeans) in the Southern Med but the temperatures fall fairly rapidly after sunset when the skies are clear - which is mostly. Take something warmer for night time. The real ramp up in temperatures isn't really until late'ish June.  The winter has been far far wetter than average so things look a lot greener to a local eye than usual, but the farmers like this a lot. First crop of the year of citrus is doing nicely (there are two growing seasons for a lot of things and even the cacti can struggle in August).

I hope you like seafood!  If not you'll get by nicely providing you make this very clear: "niente mare". The town you are staying in will warn you that theirs is the only one not run by the Mafia, you should smile and thank them because all towns actually believe this, and believe the worst about their neighbours.  They do not speak Italian in the South so it's pretty pointless trying to learn anything but the basics from locals.  English will do just fine unless you are addressing someone over 40 or not in trade or authority.  Never ask "Parla Inglese" though as the answer will almost always be a frightened stare (it's standing up in class time all over again) or a non; just speak very slowly; they may respond in dialect but they will generally understand you or have enough English to say what they don't understand. Failing that it's generally phone a friend time (for them)!

Up to this point you were doing very well. I was almost beginning to believe you might be human!

Thanks for the good advice. "Warm" and "green" sound wonderful after all our 'cold' and 'white'! "Seafood" sounds anything but wonderful. I wouldn't dream of putting anything in my mouth that's been anywhere near the sea. Do you know what people do in it or what ships empty into it? It's got to be the dirtiest part of our world, so I'm very greatful for "niente mare". I'm practising as I write. Sweet stuff (link) sounds right up my street.

I've usually managed with spanish in mainland Italy. I don't suppose it's anything to try in Sicily?

Sicily! Anybody been there? Things to do? Places to visit? Food? Customs? Weather just now?

First visit and I only have a week but I also have transport. All tips appreciated.

Pity the tongs went up in smoke (literally) many years ago! I don't think my mother was one for such new-fangled (lovely word) modernities. I think she only bought the hair tongs as the door to door salesman was my father's nephew. He was always guaranteed at least one sale in Netherton. He worked for a brush company - Ajax, I think it was called. I don't know how he came to be selling electrical appliances. Perhaps Ajax was branching out.

We northern women certainly know how to live dangerously!

12 hours ago, moe19 said:

I can remember when we had no sockets and used to pug everything in to the light socket, I can remember my Grandmother ironing with the iron plugged in to the light and I can remember when she bought the houses first hoover (vacuum cleaner) that was also ran from the light socket.

No such the as the EU or health and safety in those days, ya just got electrocuted  

Oh happy days! I remember my mother buying a pair of hair-curling tongs that plugged into the light socket. Problem was that when it was plugged in there was no light! We had to sit on a chair in the doorway to the 'kitchen' (scullery it was called in my day) and use what little light came from there. I've had many a burned ear from those tongs.

Sounds like a good idea to me!

14 hours ago, Maggie/915 said:

Old days

Old ways

Love stays

A few familiar faces in the second picture, the two on the left in particular. Can anybody put any names to these guys (and gal)?

13 hours ago, John Fox (foxy) said:

Maggs I was given the choice of either going on that trip or having a new Bike. I think the cost was roughly £30, for either .. I foolishly chose the bike and missed out on a visit to the Olympic Games

I paid the £30! Worked all hours delivering newspapers to get the money together. Unfortunately, I also got pneumonia and couldn't go.

12 hours ago, Eggy1948 said:

 

Think he eventually used the wire to tie up staked garden plants and veg.

I think there were many that had the same fate, Eggy!

On 2016-03-24 at 18:33, threegee said:

If you saying that what we are facing through the scourge of Islam is in any way on a similar scale to our own past local difficulties you are totally deluded.

This is what the Huffington Post said a few days ago:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/europe-terrorism-chart-isis

For those of you who are not familiar with ‘Statista’ I suggest you google it. It’s said to be one of the most reliable sources of data in the world. The chart which they provide in this article speaks for itself. Terrorism is far less of a problem now than when the IRA was using “measured violence to create political pressure”.

3g, you say I’m deluded for comparing the terrorism of the IRA to that of IS. Deluded? Moi?

It’s not me who firmly believes that 22 000, possibly dead, individuals are going to force Islam on 7½ billion people and it’s certainly not me who unshakably believes that a handful of women are about to outbreed the entire population of the UK.

BUMP!

And finally, for this evening at any rate, Point 5:

"Sharia law is already imposed in our country" (posted today 12.57 PM)

This statement is in direct opposition to your statement yesterday (10.09 PM), that "all viewpoints will be equally valid right up to the inevitable day that Sharia law is imposed on us all." I can't seem to find any reference to this anywhere in the British legal system. Could you please quote me, or at least direct me to, the relevant paragraphs.

So, just to recap, what I'm asking for is, apart from an explanation as to how I recognise a muslim soley by his appearance (perhaps you missed the question?):

a clarification of what is your understanding of the Word ghetto

a clarification as to why we British can't succeed with the present wave of refugees just as we did with the Ugandan Asians or the boat-people

one (1) example of how any aspect of the British Culture has been replaced by a Group of refugees

a source of the given definition for "true refugee"

a clarification as to whether Sharia law has, or has not, already been imposed in Britain. With any possible answer in the affirmative, a wink in the direction of the appropriate paragraphs would be very much appreciated.

3g, Copy and paste gave no response. A requested link gave no response. lets try your third bit of advice.

You promised to answer if I bumped it up. Here it is! 

Now, that is interesting! Thanks Eggy!

On 2015-12-26 at 20:59, Canny lass said:

And finally, for this evening at any rate, Point 5:

 

"Sharia law is already imposed in our country" (posted today 12.57 PM)

 

This statement is in direct opposition to your statement yesterday (10.09 PM), that "all viewpoints will be equally valid right up to the inevitable day that Sharia law is imposed on us all." I can't seem to find any reference to this anywhere in the British legal system. Could you please quote me, or at least direct me to, the relevant paragraphs.

 

So, just to recap, what I'm asking for is, apart from an explanation as to how I recognise a muslim soley by his appearance (perhaps you missed the question?):

 

1. a clarification of what is your understanding of the Word ghetto
2. a clarification as to why we British can't succeed with the present wave of refugees just as we did with the Ugandan Asians or the boat-people
3. one (1) example of how any aspect of the British Culture has been replaced by a Group of refugees
4. a source of the given definition for "true refugee"
5. a clarification as to whether Sharia law has, or has not, already been imposed in Britain. With any possible answer in the affirmative, a wink in the direction of the appropriate paragraphs would be very much appreciated.

3g, Copy and paste gave no response. A requested link gave no response. lets try your third bit of advice.

You promised to answer if I bumped it up. Here it is! 

On 2016-03-24 at 13:48, threegee said:

Why did you choose to go to a (predominantly) Catholic Italy? What is so special about Italy to you that you had to go to such trouble and expense compared with settling in one of the other countries who share your religious beliefs, closer to where you come from and with a similar climate/culture? (I’m thinking first and foremost of Northern Ireland but I could stretch it to Byker or Blagdon).

This is easy, and in fact I get asked this all the time!  And, as far as I know, no one has been arrested for asking me.

It's the climate, the food, and the health aspects.  But underlying this is the fact that I can relate to the locals Romano-Judaic belief set.  I'm not a churchgoer (and neither are many here), but if the community were in any way threatened I'd be there in a local church showing my support, and indeed I do modestly help the local church charities.

Of course the reverse question is also valid: why would anyone want to move to the UK climate if it wasn't on purely economic grounds, as there are those other points-of-the-compass?  Why make a tiny crowded island any more crowded?  Our own civilisation broke out of here for more living space, and generally did rather well by that.

That’s much the same as the Syrians then, but maybe with a slightly different order of priority. They, primarily, also come to Europe for the sake of their health! In Syria their physical health is threatened by many things: weapons, torture and starvation – to name just three!  Their mental health takes quite a battering too. It’s not easy living in a war zone.

Food is also important! Just being able to get your hands on it for a start! There’s plenty of it in Europe. Of course the Syrians, if they are of the Muslim persuasion, don’t eat pork. There is nothing strange about that.  The UK has, and still does, cater for the food requirements of several religious groups.

There was a time, not so long ago, when Catholics in Britain could not, because of their religion, eat meat on Fridays.  Schools and hospitals, to my personal knowledge, served therefore only fish on Fridays. No doubt there were a few other institutions doing likewise.  That particular religious food requirement caused me and many other non-Catholic children to go hungry in school every Friday, as there was no alternative food provided!

Another example of how the UK has recognized and met religious food requirements is that of the Jewish religion. The Jews eat only kosher food, food that conforms to the regulations of Kashrut (Jewish Dietary Law) and is allowed by Halakha (Jewish Law). Believe me, during my nursing days I, and even the odd Muslim nursing colleague or two, have served many a kosher meal to Jewish patients. Britain, and the rest of Europe, respects the religious rights of the Jews so why not those of the Muslims? But, of course you’d know all about that being able as you are to relate to the Romano-Judaic life-style. One rule for them and one for the others is it?

Muslims, it will no doubt surprise you to hear, can easily relate to the Christian religion. You say yourself that you are not a practicing (you don’t go to church) – whatever it is you are. However, when you say that “if the community were in any way threatened I’d be there in a local church showing my support, and indeed I do modestly help the local church charities”, you demonstrate clearly that you have adopted a Christian ‘life-style’.

Muslims are only too willing to show their support for threatened communities and usually in a very hands on manner.  Take a look at some of the footage from TV during the two latest terror attacks – Germany and now Brussels. There are plenty of women wearing hijabs, of course that may not indicate at they are Muslims. It could just be the latest fashion among Europeans. Those women were manifesting their support, physical and spiritual, in every possible manner. There were, no doubt some Muslim males doing the same thing. They are, unfortunately, not so easily identifiable, as you haven’t yet told us what the distinguishing features of a male Muslim are and it appears to be only yourself who knows. 

Then there’s the climate. Living as I do in a colder climate I can tell you that it’s deemed quite exotic by some people! Just ask the Swedish tourist industry! You are transferring your own dislike of cold weather on to people you know nothing about. Have you ever stopped to consider that people from warm countries may just appreciate a cooler climate?  It’s my belief that rain, when it comes in droplet form, is infinitely preferable to rain that comes in bullet form and I’m pretty sure that most Syrians would agree with me!

On 2016-03-24 at 13:48, threegee said:

In all cases they, like me, couldn’t give a jot about what religion other people have. They, like me, know that everybody in Britain has the right to choose and follow their own belief. The law says so.

Which law would you be talking about there?  We aren't talking about a religion as we've come to know religion; we are talking about a medieval belief set that doesn't broker any dissent

I’ve previously outlined the relevant laws in another thread but, as you've asked, I’ll outline them again:

Universal Declaration of Human rights (UDHR:1949)

(This is not a legally binding document. Therefore, the UN General Assembly adopted (ICESCR) and (ICCPR) in 1966. These were ratified in 1976 thus becoming UK Law.

-          Article 26 right to protection from discrimination

-          Article 27 right to enjoy their own culture and profess/practice their religion

European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR:1998)

-          Article 9 freedom of thought, conscience and religion

Human Rights Act (HRA:1998)

This act came into force in UK 2000, thus incorporating the above, ECHR:1998 into UK law

-          Article 9 freedom of thought, conscience and religion

International Covenant on Economic, Social and cultural rights (ICESCR)

-          Chapter 12

International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR:1976)

-          Article 18 Freedom of religion

European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedom (ECHR:1953)

And, albeit to a lesser degree,  the Employment Equality Act: Section 18, the Racial Hatred Act (2000) and the Terrorism Act (2000)

I’m in total agreement with mercuryg. I also think that using ‘above top secret’ in any serious debate is best avoided.

On 2016-03-25 at 12:07, Brett said:

"As for the statement about muslims wanting world domination due to their holy scripture outlining these points then does it not all boil down to the interpretation of said book? There are many factions of all religions and not all of them follow their religious texts to the letter devout or not."

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/11/wahhabism-isis-how-saudi-arabia-exported-main-source-global-terrorism

As for the threat of refugees or migrants coming to our shores and being part of a sleeper cell for a terrorist organisation is something that was always going to happen, yet it seems that we are at most risk by radicalised youths in our own countries. The more worrying bit is that these people are already known to the authorities, and were still able to commit such atrocities. There is no easy answer to the troubles we face and part of the issue may lie with Turkey or other European countries, some of which may lie closer to threegee's door than everyone realises.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/24/inside-the-mafia-isis-connection.html

If your first question is "what is the daily beast and is it a reliable source?" then my response to that would be that you should be asking that question of every article you read. What we tend to find now is that a lot of the main coverage is performed by a core set of journalists and the reporting, stolen, shared, regurgitated and taken out of context across the internet.

I don't have the answers, and I don't expect any of you lot will. Even if we did we wouldn't be likely to get them in front of an audience where they would be listened to, cared about our considered.

Sad times that we are living in at present, and when these topics can stem religious attacks like the one of a Asad Shah in Scotland yesterday because this person was of a particular religion or ethnic group then we need to start worrying about the likes of the gentleman who was arrested for asking a muslim lady about Belgium.

One thing that annoys me about the media is the different ways that they report terrorist attacks based on the racial origins of the person committing the offence. White people can still be terrorists.

I don't tend to see a lot of these discussions on Facebook due to having removed everyone but a core group of friends, but when I heard some of the unresearched, regurgitated opinions that people discuss at work or out in public, my standard response is to research it for themselves and form their own opinion as this is how stereotypes are allowed to remain.

Thanks for some very balanced viewpoints, Brett. As you quite rightly, and with a much welcome and refreshing objectivity, point out the interpretation of the holy scriptures in any religion can be many and differing. There will always be a small, fractious minority in any group. They've always been there and they will always be. As long as we have religion we'll have these problems.

Like you, I also believe that any threat comes from radicalised groups already within the country but here I'm talking not only about Islamist radicals but even right wing radicals who actively keep the pot boiling with resultant scaldings all round. They are just as dangerous and I believe, just as many.

My views on the media I've already mentioned so I wont, go into them again but it's refreshing to see that there are others among us who also read critically.

Just a quick contribution before I start hunting eggs laid by cockrels and banishing witches, and then getting down to the more serious business of the egg noggs and toddies.

On 2016-03-22 at 13:28, threegee said:

If the estimates of the number of terrorist already in Europe are only partly correct we are in for terrible times.

Estimate being the important word here. What the estimate is based on would be more interesting.

On 2016-03-24 at 23:26, threegee said:

This tiny majority of radicalised Muslims of yours now seems to be in the tens of thousands (Sky is claiming to have received a USB stick with the detailed ISIL database. 

Now I've had a chance to have a more critical look at the video. Thanks for the link, 3g.

Here we are not dealing with estimates. The figure of 22 000 names of IS members on the list is very specific. It sounds a lot. A source is also given - The files on the USB-stick, which- we'll assume are authentic. So, "tens of thousands" is not an exaggeration. However,  if we look at that figure as a percentage of the worlds muslims, 1,7 billion (according to Wikipedia), then these 22 000 represent 0.0013% of the Muslim population of the world. Furthermore, they are spread over 51 countries -an average of 431 members per country. I wouldn't like to even hazard a guess as to the percentage othey represent of the world population as a whole.

Islam and its holy book, the Koran, have been around for almost 1 500 years. The content of the Koran has not changed, so if the message it is trying to get across is world domination then either it's not doing a very good job or people just aren't sufficiently interested in dominating the world. 22 000 members in  1 500 years is not exactly anything to write home about. This is a SMALL fundamentalist group we are dealing with.

On 2016-03-24 at 23:26, threegee said:

Of course this database doesn't include the up-and-coming ones, like those school classes cheering at news of the Brussels slaughter

Well, we don't actually know that. That's pure speculation. That aspect is not taken up in the interview with Abu Hamed, the alleged disillusioned, former IS member who stole and handed over the USB-stick to Sky. What we do know is that the list contains names of people no longer living! Abu Hamed takes up two of them, Junaid Hussain, killed by a drone, and Rayaad Khan from Cardiff who was also killed. Just how many others of the remaining 21 998 names on the list are also dead is not mentioned. It could be all of them. 

Again, mountains and molehills spring readily to mind.

2 hours ago, mercuryg said:

Now, mention of the Daily Mail brings me onto another element of the problem - that of the behaviour and attitude of the mainstream press. I read a daily paper and despair; the standard of reporting is terrible, and in many cases it becomes clear there has been no research. Typical was one tabloids declaration that 'Easter Eggs Banned'; claim was that the manufacturers have removed the word Easter from the packaging so as not to offend 'non-Christians' (I wonder who they may be?) Total nonsense, of course, as it only took a few minutes for someone to find pictures of Easter eggs from the 1970's where said word could not be seen. But, a great headline, doing what headlines should do, grabbing the attention and infuriating Bob at the local newsagents, who buys the paper to read what it's all about. And, it spreads like wildfire on social media (it was posted on my FB timeline five times, by people who should have known better). However, the problem is it simply enhances the belief that corporations are being forced to distance themselves from any religious connotations so as not to offend Muslims; they're not, it's the press that is fuelling the fire. Anyway, Happy Holidays- can't say Christmas, can we. Oh, and before Canny Lass gets on my back, I know, I know: I committed the cardinal sin and opened a sentence with And, 

Newspapers will have you believe only that which they want you to believe and they use a wide variety of techniques to achieve that, not least among them selection of ‘facts’. However, it doesn’t end there. There is a plethora of research available which demonstrates the variety of those techniques. They encompass everything from the proportional relationship of the headline, text and pictures, placement within the newspaper and amount of space allocated to the article (editorial techniques) to the manipulation of grammar, vocabulary - and even some phonological features (writing techniques). All this is done with the sole aim of making the text, and consequently the newspaper, more appealing to a certain type of reader - the type who can buy their newspaper and thereby generate income. Some of us are clearly more susceptible to these techniques than others.

Definitely not getting involved in this one. I find them all fascinating.

That you can't start a sentence with a conjunction is just a myth! Some of our greatest writers have done it frequently and correctly. There are two types of coordinating conjunction. When junior school pupils learn that coordinating conjunctions can only be used within a sentence they are learning the rules of grammar. When university students learn that a coordinating conjunction can be placed at the beginning of a sentence to create emphatic effect they are learning the rules of literary style. You are using it quite correctly, Merguryg.

I never criticise anybody's use of language. Language changes all the time. One of the reasons for this is that the more a user diverges from a grammatical rule the quicker that divergance will be accepted into the language as the correct form. These users are all helping in their own way to diversify and keep the language alive. Grammatical rules are there only to facilitate communication. Communication is easier if we all speak/read in the same way but we can break as many rules as we like so long as effective communication is maintained. It's only when communication breaks down because of divergence  that we can talk of 'bad' grammar.

And, who am I to criticize ! I have English as my mother tongue but it's without doubt the worst of my languages because it's the language I use least. It now has many grammatical and lexical elements of Swedish, because that's the language I use most in my daily life. It also has many traces of Icelandic, Norwegian, Danish (to a lesser degree, and particularly in speech as I can't get my throat muscles around the 'hockling' sound) and Spanish, beacause they are the languages I most worked with. It's called transferance and there's not a lot that can be done about it. There are very few second language speakers who do not have it to some degree.

3g, One last question for today, When you say "It's there in the Quaran, 97 times if I remember correctly, and it's world domination." I'm not sure what you mean. What is in the Quaran 97 times? Does it say 97 times that the  purpose of Islam is world domination?

Because it's about human life, Maggie! It's a question that should be brought out into the open and discussed. The only problem here is that some people seem to have forgotten - assuming that they have ever known - the basic principles of debate. Principles such as making a statement and  supporting it with evidence or expert opinion, - instead of illogical reasoning. Principles such as asking questions and even answering questions from the opposition - even if it means being put on the spot sometimes.. Principles such as accepting that there are other opinions than your own  which also have the right to be supported with evidence or expert opinion. These all help to keep the discussion going. Lying down and pretending to be dead, when put into a corner by an awkward question and hoping your opponent will go away, have never been conducive to good argumentation technique. 

I don't consider this to be a fight. Just a poor discussion of an n interesting topic, worthy of debate.