HIGH PIT WILMA

Streetlife....Welcome to the forum!

Whey a aalwis seem ti be thi last....but nivvor mind!....Happy belated boithdi Foxy.....hope yi hae menny mair.....!!

[Mr Marley wud tear me tung oot if he hord me taakin noo!]

Danny's favourite was the red square and his sandshoe owa ya buttocks!

Er.......Eggy,aam a bit slow sumtimes wi wit,so when a see a trillion excl. marks after a statement...a assume a musta missed summik!

Wat hes Barry Elliot got ti dae wi it?and who is he?

The ancient articles aa was reading[as quotes],showed up the meaning far divorced from that which seems ti describe the origin of Bedlington's name!

Hence my curiosity!

Did anyone ever watch Pugwash wi tha wee'ens in thi aad days?

Or the competition on the back of the Corn flakes boxes,a year or two ago,to win tickets ti see the latest..[at thi time!] Star Wars film?

I leave you to ponder!

Hi Folks,just been reading a bit of historical literature about the origin of the word Baedling............!!

Who decided to name the Manor at Bedlington Market Place.........er.......and why?

Any idea Malcolm,or Adam?...or enybody else...?

Cheers!

P.S. it was a letter to the Editor in the News Post Leader that made me curious.

Hi Tony,very sorry to hear of your sad loss.

Good to see you back,and hope whatever you decide to do in the future,is right for you.

Good luck!

REEDY!....The Doctor Pit Drift wadn't see thi light of day after the forst 50 yards!

Us kids played aroond the entrance,and ventured doon less than that distance,[when I was aboot 10 years aad!],but as years went by and I would have a bit snoop aroond,and with all my mining experience driving drifts like that one,it was probably  on a gradient of 1-in-6....which was aboot the steepest gradient comfortable to get down to the seams quickly with a rubber conveyor belt running up it's length to bring the coal oot.

The steepest  gradient I ever worked on was a 1-in-1,then a 1-in-2,and also vertical staple-shaft.

My point is,by the time the drift ran under the Market -place,it would have been aboot 100 feet down under![roughly!]

A canna see why the tunnels shud be regarded as an urban myth ........the Monks were working shallow seams of coal wi nae tools other than wood shuvels and very primitive picks ,artifacts as such were found aroond the Bedlington A pit site

years ago,then more recently when Bower Grange was being developed..a JCB was digging the foundations and fell into some aad workings aboot 20 feet doon![aroond 1980-ish],what the old monks had left!

A bit late of coming back to this topic aboot St Cuthberts Church!

A was at a Christening on Sunday gone,[ 4th June 2017],and at the beginning of the service,the female with the Dog Collar on,[NOT the vicar...cos she referred to the Vicar occasionally],was very pleasant,and began by welcoming us all to this very fine OLD Church,WHICH INCIDENTALLY!...... was 1,96..? yrs old on that day!![She told us all..]

That makes it older than what any of us have been led to believe ,by a few hundred years!

She did say.."or thereabouts....cos we can't place an exact date on it..." after saying it was on Sunday.

It made me think that very old secret documents lie in the church vaults,which are only available to the "Priests"...is that the correct term for a Protestant church employee?....if the lovely lady wasn't the Vicar,what was her title in the church domain then?

She seemed to know a lot about the history of the church,cos I had a good crack with her,sitting in a pew,after everybody had gone.!

Just catched up wi this topic........better late than never!

My Wife and Me went speshully ti see Holly wi the Toby Twirl group.......GROUP!!!! ..[we didn't caal them BANDS!!...bands played trumpets!!]

After they set up and did the soond check,Holly was lukking aroond wi he's hand shading he's eyes ti see if any of he's marra's

had cum ti see him.

He got he's eye on me and came stryght up ti wor tyeble and sat doon aside wor lass,wi he's drink,till the stage-caal came.

As he got up ti gaan,he hoyed a haaf-croon on the tyeble and said Bill will ye get is a Bacardi n Coke for wa haaf-time please.?...[a didn't knaa wat that waas cos a was a tee-totaller...still am!]

[naa...aam sure it was TWO haaf-croons....cos a can mind thinking....ye bugga....he must be rich noo!]

Whey he came owa and had a gud crack aboot the aad days...[in the early-mid sixties..when we were aal starting oot wi nae gear hardly!],at haaf-time,then he said one last s'lang afore he went ti gaan inti thi van at the end of tha set.

He started the set wi "Up-up and away with my beautiful balloon" track....and the group's soond and of course Holly's voice was amazing![ mind,when he was a young-un,he did Mick  Jagger ti a T !!..he aalwis waas a gud vocalist..a real pro.]

Harry Bryzinsky played in a few groups in the early -mid sixties,and was an amazing guitarist!...even though his fast playing wasn't my style in them days.....mainly cos a cudn't play thi bugga like him!!

Aav nivvor seen Holly since that neet at the Dom. in 1968,but wud luv ti hook up wi him again one day,even though he wadn't knaa me noo![  me knickname's nivvor changed since it was forced upon me in 1959-ish...and pretty easy ti remember,...like!!].....

Los Zafiros played there,[aav still got the forst vinyl album they recorded before their tour],and they waaked aroond the audience,as Spanish/Mexican groups did,singing and playing guitars aroond ya tyeble ...porsinall-like,[singin' ti thi Wife....not ME!]

ARRGHH! A canna mind thi nyem o' thi strong man who won "Opportunity knocks" [Hughie Green's show]and came ti thi Dom!

He myed he's nyem bla'an' het waata bottles up till they borsted!....waas it Mike...summik or otha?

He lifted a Blacksmith's Anvil wi he's teeth...and when a local lad and h'e marras were heckling him...[drunk!],he invited the ring-leader up on stage ti try and lift the anvil just wi he's arms..[cos the lad accused him of having stage props,and any bugga cud lift a wood anvil!!]

Whey thi clivvor lad got up on stage....and fund oot it WAS a steel anvil..and he cudn't lift thi bugga two inches off the floor....which highly amused ivry bugga.....mebbe some folk thowt that HE was a "Prop",as part of the show.....believe me...that lad used ti kick wor lasses chair from under her in class at the Catholic School,and later ran the Nyeuk!![in Bedlington Market -place!!!]

Aye Tom!! A bet ye canna  mind o' that lark!!

The Ivy League played as weel...

Happy days they were!!

Hi Kevin!

I'm not much help on this one except to say when I met my Wife in 1962,and started going to her house as part of the family,her Uncle John Oliver,who was bedridden after a stroke,the year before I met her,used to have a visitor by the name of Lambie Bellerby.

He used to cut John's hair when it was needed,and he was a smashing fella,really nice natured and quiet.

I don't know owt else aboot him,but I also got to know Billy Bellerby,through him being a friend of my Wife's family.

Billy worked at the boot factory at the Station...Pioneer?  or Rocket?

He was also the loveliest lad waaking!

Hope ye get some more answers on here!

Cheers Kev!

Aaaahh! That's Tommy all right....smiling as always,and the gentlest fella as ever walked this planet.

A never knew he had had Alzheimers,sad to hear of his passing away.

Thanks Eggy for the sad news.

R.I.P. Tommy Easton.

7 hours ago, bluebarby said:

The Netherton Ghost, umm, I think if you had gone around the duckets on a Saturday afternoon and mentioned that I think the reply would have been "howay man wat goest in ee's reet mind wid wanna waak aroon doon a pit? Gidda way an divvint taak see stupit"

Heh heh!Too true!

At Bates in 1971-ish,there was an Overman,[herinafter caaled "thi Owaman"],who was a champion leek grower,and I think,President[?],of the Blyth Rosecarpe society[?],and a well known Judge on both circuits.

He was a canny fella,sociable,but he's job was to get work done.....and that he did!

Ivry body that passed him got a job of some sort...!

Alec Waite was he's name.

One day,he came down from 8's district,in the Beaumont seam,and told me he had seen a ghost.

He corrected he'sel,and said"Whey it might not a been a ghost,but a definately saa an apparition."

Three massive wooden airlock doors,under a LOT of Air pressure,had opened and closed one at a time,and he had seen a "Greyish Mist" come through the last door.

Noo these doors were so big and heavy,ye had ti put ya foot against the waal and pull like hell on the handle ti ease the the air pressure,afore ye cud open them ti let a set of three and a half ton mine cars through.[aboot 8' wide x 6' high.]

Within two days,me younger Sister came yem from her work at the Ronson Factory,on Cramlington Ind,Est,and sed.."Howw Youngin,wat's this aboot a Ghost at Bates?,it's aal aroond the factories"!!

The story made the Evening Chronicle front page!

Later on,in fore-shift,one of me Marra's was doon thi pit and the lads got on aboot thi story.

Me Marra,[a proper wit!],torned aroond and sed ti thi lads...."Whey haddaway ti hell,if Alec Waite had seen a ghost

he wudda givven the f.....er a job"!!

The lads aal howled at thi time,in thi pit evironment!

For months afterwards,Alec was sick ti deeth of the greetings he got from ivvry body he saa on he's travels doon thi pit..."Halloww Alec,seen any ghosts lately?"!!

Pitmen were a hard lot when it came to personal feelings,ye developed skin like bell-metal!

Before a gaan ti pile sum ZZZZZ's up,a thowt a better clarify a previous comment aboot the Canteen Lasses on Area bonus,me comment wasn't meant ti soond derogatory,cos them lasses did a gud hard job,at a pit like Bates,wi 2000 men!

Naa,me comment was meant ti include AAL surface staff who were contracted on the area bonus scheme,which was the average of the bonus's of every individual pit in the area,and included Wages clerks,Time office staff,and aal them[thoosands of them!!]...at the Area Headquarters at Teems Valley Gateshead.

People in the offices,nae disrespect,cos we wud be badly on withoot them,but it made us sore,ti knaa they were getting £40  a shift,sumtimes when we were gettin hurt in accidents,roof falls of stone,soaking wet,coming oot the pit wi arms hanging doon like a gorilla,tired oot,after filling two "Shots" of coal,humping heavy girders,etc,soakng wet,dust,fumes........for sumtimes 90 pence a shift!!![rant over!!!....purely for educashun porpises...like!!!]

A thowt just came ti me,when aa was thinking aboot hoo we drew cyevils,locally,amang the spare men,ti fill cyevils that were temporarily vacated because of sickness or men on rest days ,or whatever.

This was at every pit,and right up till all the pits closed in the Thatcher years after the 1984 strike,from the start of pits!

The overman would call the spare men together and say.."Howweh lads,hoy ya tallies in the hat".[this was directly before gaan doon in the cage at the start of the shift.]

They had ti wait till everybody had clocked in by the start-time,before draa-in' the spare cyevils.

So the owaman wud caal oot "22's face,Shearer-man",then he wud get one of the lads ti pick a tally oot thi hat,or he might pick them oot he'sell'.

Whey me point was,me Marra,who was a proper character,weel knaan and weel liked,AALWIS drew a gud cyevil!!

One day a said ti him,"Hoo cum ee elwis draa a gud cyevil,and ivry bugga else teks pot luck?"

Wi a sly grin,he pulled he's tally oot o' he's pocket and sed,"Wilma,in this world,ye gotta get wise if ye want ti get on!!"

"Hoo di ye mean like?"

He pointed doon ti he's tally,and sqeezed it between he's two fingers and thumb,bending it inti nearly a right-angle shape,then as he hoyed it inti the hat for the draa,he laughed and sed .."Waatch Wilma!"

The best cyevils were aalwis draan forst,so as the Owaman put he's hand inti thi hat,while caalin the cyevil oot,he rattled aal the tallies,fiddled aboot,and who's tally came oot?.........Spot on!!

It was me Marra...AGAIN!

Whey after a while thi lads started thinking it was a fix between the Owaman and me Marra!

So me Marra sed,"A think aal let it gaan for a day or two,ye see Wilma,the bent tally aalwis finds it's way inti ya hand,inside the hat amang aal thi other tallies!

Noo ye canna say it was truly cheating,cos ya tally DID get bent noo and again,cos ye were craaling aroond in very low rough conditions,wi mebbe a knife in ya pocket or other bits and bobs...mebbe a drill-bit etc.

But the tally clerk wud straighten them ti hang them on the tally-board at the end of ya shift when ye hoyed ya tallies in at the time office,or when ye hoyed ya forst one in ti thi Banksman as ye got inti thi cage ti gaan doon.

Me Marra was as sly as a fox,with a gud set of philosophies!

Heh heh! Nice one Eggy!

Many thanks Canny Lass!...we're aal part of the team here,so aam grateful for your info on the word Cyevil,aav only ever seen it in pit head documents posted up owa the years and aalwis knaan it as Cavil,but like ye point oot,it's typical of the mining fraternity ti slang the dialect!

It's interesting ti knaa that it came from New Zealand,but how on earth did it arrive here,I always thought that it was wor poor sods who were deported owa ti Australia and them faraway places for little things like pinching a stotty-cyek cos the bairns were starving.....and that sort of thing!!

Who,would want ti cum here from N Z and why?...aam baffled..!![but mind,tek me away from Pitwark,and aam bugaad!]

"Bread and jam..." = Hard up!! [poor cyevil!]

"Eggs and Ham"...= a canny pay.[gud cyevil!]

Those were the days my Friend....!

Hi Eggy,and Pete!

Forst off! ...A "Cyevil" [slang],spelt and pronounced correctly,in Queen's English,would read as "Cavil" ,and sound like "Kayvil".

A Cyevil was any place of work in a seam,for the Pieceworkers,i.e. Coalfillers,Caunchmen,Coalcuttermen,"Pullers"..[or,at some pits].."Bumpers",[who advanced the conveyor belt into the new facetrack each day,after the coal had been cut,drilled and fired doon,and filled off onto the conveyor belt],Drillers,and in the days before longwall faces and conveyor belts,you had the Putters,and Drivers.

Before mechanical coalcutters came alang,you had what is depicted on my photo of Wor Auld Chep,aged 14,and he's old Marra the Hewer.

The Hewers literally "Hewed" [picked] the coal down from the solid seam,and filled waiting tubs,to which the Putter would either "Hand-put" [push by hand],or hang his pony on and take the tubs out to a landing.

Aal the putters in the different flats,[or "Cyevils"],would dae the syem,until there was enough tubs to make up a "Set",to which the Drivers would hang thier horse onto,and tek the sets oot ti thi shaft bottom...["Thier"? ..or "Their"?!!!]

When longwall faces came alang,ye had the Caunchmen etc,as aforementioned.

So!...because conditions varied throughout the pit ,wet seams,and coalfaces,dry seams,but with raggy roof-stone or floor-heave,generally bad conditions,and some with what miners would say was "Stannin' like a Palace..",it was only fair to have a means of giving every worker a fair chance to take the gud wi thi bad.

 It became practise to to "Draa the Cyevils"..[Draw the Cavils],every "Quaata",[Quarter],which was the 13 weeks referred to in Jack's poem.

All the workers' "Tallies",[pit safety tokens with each man's number on],would be thrown "inti thi hat",[so to speak!],and a list of all the Cyevils available would be drawn up.[In categories to ensure the experienced workers were alloted to a cyevil in thier domain!]

The person "Drawing" [picking out] the tallies,one at a time,would call out the name of the Cyvil first..."Beamont Seam,Forst North Mothergate Caunch[these would be drawn from the quota of Caunchmen]

Then the Coalfillers Cyevils would be drawn next,the Cuttermen,Drillers,etc.

Pete is right,as far as the Fillers go,cos they could Draw a good stretch of coal,nice and dry,gud roof conditions,meant gud money,or he cud draw a stinking wet cyevil,on the same face,further along,with faulted ground,[bad roof conditions],which meant slow progress....less money!!

In the old arc-walls,with Hewers,if he had a stinking bad cyevil,nea money,then the putters and drivers suffered also,cos coal paid thier wages!

At the end of each "Quaata",the last friday of the quaata was called "Shifting-gear-day".

All the faceworkers brought thier picks shovels,saws,mels,and wativvor else they needed,out of the pit,cos they might draw a cyevil in another part of the pit a mile away!!,so they needed to have all thier gear ready to go with them to the new cyevil...wherever it might be.[they had to buy all their gear in the old days!]

In a nutshell,it was virtually a raffle of job places!!

Now,although the Cyevilling system was brought to an end with the introduction of the Power Loading Agreement,in the early 1960's,when Mechanisation  took over coal production,there were still some Cyevills which were agreed as a "Bargain" with Management,long before the P.L.A. came along,such as the 6th North,in the Plessey Seam at Bates Pit,and the teams of Development [or "Composite"]men,were still on the old-fashioned "Piecework" agreement,making really good money,right up to the pit closing down in 1986!

When Thatcher and British Coal brought out the new "Productivity Bonus Scheme",we all new it would put "Man against Man"...,and ..."Pit against Pit".

It DID!

Up to the pit closures,those who had a gud Cyevil,[or pit!],like Ellington,or the Nottingham pits,made fantastic money,and those who had rotten Cyevils,like those poor sods down the Three-Quarter Drift,at Bates,which was a heavily-faulted Seam,teeming in with Sea-water,and atrocious roof conditions,made NOWT!

There was a time when the pit canteen lasses who were on the Area bonus,had forty times more bonus per shift,than my Marra's and myself,who had 90pence per shift sometimes,[due to really bad conditions],when ELLINGTON MEN WERE GETTING £100 PER SHIFT!!

Now THAT was the unfairness of a modern "Bonus" scheme,compared to a century-old "Cyevilling" system,where at least,everybody was given a fair crack of the whip,and lads could,if they so desired,swap cyevils with another lad,if it suited them both.

Sorry folks,but ye canna explain pitwark in one sentence!!,hope aav helped ye understand, Eggy!

A just remembered,at Choppington High Pit,when aa started ,in 1959,the Coalfillers used ti "Bargain" with Management,by the whole team of fillers on each face,putting "Tenders"in,to try and get ["Win"] a good "Bargain price",for the next Quarter,when a new face was ready for production,and existing faces were being abandoned.

Just like businesses,whoever put the lowest tender,got the FACE,albeit,at a bit lower pay,but better than Shift-work!

At  Choppington,we had 13 yards of coal per stretch,[ from 2'-3"..down to 18" high,and soaking wet bad roof]and,at Bedlington A pit,we had 9 yards of coal per filler,at 1'-10" to 2'-2" high. [and dusty dry,with a solid post-stone roof!]..this was in the 1960's don't forget!..hand-filling with a huge "George Rock" pan shovel!

Hi Britbob,and welcome to the site!

I first met Phil Bryant at the preliminary training centre [mining]at Seaton Burn colliery,in 1959,where I started aged 15 yrs.

He was the most gentlest giant you ever met,I say giant,cos when we were 15 years old,he towered above  the rest of our little group of marra's,who included Tom Pearson,who's Parents ran the Hartford Hotel,[we used to sing Elvis' Heartbreak Hotel but subsitute Hartford for heartbreak!]

Billy McGlen,Willy Wake,Jim Hardy,[are ye in there Jim?!be nice ti hear from ye!].

In those days,most of the lads who were learning guitar or bass,or drums,had to make do with budget instruments,and like me,were self-taught,by playing records at slow speed,learning the riffs or tunes,like me......Hank was my Hero,along with Duane Eddy and all the other masses of instrumental groups...[NOT bands!!!],that hit the charts every week,in the 50's and 60's.

So,when time went by,and our training ended,Phil and me lost touch as we went to different pits.

It so happened that I had started practising with an old friend and two other lads,when one night there was a knock on my Mother's door,and when I opened it,there was Phil Bryant standing,along with some members of a group he had formed.

He came ,upon recommendations from people who had heard me playing,to ask if I would join his group.

Well,I have always been a loyal sort of lad,and couldn't even think of deserting my own marra's,to go with Phil and his Marra's.

This was around 1962-ish,I was about 18 yrs aad by then,and knew Robin Hadaway only in passing,cos he played guitar as weel,starting,like me,with  a Rossetti

"Lucky Seven" guitar,made out of plywood,and was virtually a guitar-shaped orange box!![mind,aav still got mine,but it's in a sad state noo!]

Next thing aa knew,Phil was playing bass guitar in the Avengers,with Robin on lead guitar.

They were about as average as my group,seeing as we had 8-watt Hohner amps,no echo units,cheap guitars,no mikes,had to use the club's mike's which were atrocious......but we passed,until we did get better gear as time went by.

I used to play 50-50 sometimes,at the Clayton Ballroom,with the Avengers,where I met my Wife,in 1962,at the skating rink,one Wednesday night in February.

This was before The Avengers were taken on by Alan McKay,[who was a manager at Bedlingon CO-OP],and who signed for 1200 pounds worth of the top

quality instruments,"Burns Marvin" for Robin,"Hofner Verithin" bass for Phil,etc.[THAT....was a LOT of pound notes!!]

Suddenly,with a top-notch P.A and Echo/reverb unit,and several gud mikes,they would be entering for the "Northern Echo" Group competition...and they were bloody fantastic!

Sadly,Graham Bell passed away, a few years ago,and when he was in his prime,he could match any of the rhythm and blues singers of the day.

His rendering of Stones' early tracks were great,and his Harmonica playing made your hair stand on end!

Last I heard of Phil,was that he had joined the Merchant Navy after the group split,don't know exactly when.

I wud luv ti hook up with Phil again,if he is still knocking aroond!!

He was a great bass-player,and a smashing lad!

Great idea for those who are able to attend /organise!

Hope it all goes to plan.

Cheers !

HPW.

Hi Eggy! The lad with thi donkey jacket on,third from the left is Derek Burt. In the 1970's a was in charge of him,when a was a deputy,then when a came back  into the N.U.M. ,HE went onto Deputy work,and was often in charge of ME!  Smashing natured lad and a bit wildly,likeable,hot-headed! A knew  most of the lads but 30 years have passed since a left mining.........!

Sym, a spent an hour describing everything  about Teddy Coils,in my e-mail box,meaning ti cut and paste it on the P.M. box ti you,like Vic telt me ti dae,but had ti tek L.B.J. oot,in the middle  of typing,so a put it in me drafts box,and when a finished it,it wudn't paste on the P.M. ti you .

 A tried ti paint an accurate picture of everything I knew about the case and my relationship[working...that is!] with the poor young victim's Dad.

It's still saved in my drafts box,so aam still trying ti send it.

Noo L.B.J. has just woke up and crying ti gaan oot!....aa divvent knaa...!! ...wat ye hae ti dae for those you love!!

Cheers,Sym.

Hi Sym,I would rather P.M. you about that incident,cos ti tell you the story as it was,wouldn't be fitting for a nice quiet family forum like this one,plus,a lang while back,when I first joined this site,and knew naebody,I was discreetly "requested"!! not to "turn over a rat's nest here,as he has a Daughter living nearby,and we don't want to upset her....she wasn't responsible......etc".

Well,like I said , fair enough,but it seems we always protect the perpetrator,and ignore the victims!

The subject was brought up,without regard to the victim's family who also live in Bedlington Station.

Noo,hoo dae a P.M. ye,Sym?...leave me for a few hoors!

Cheers!

HPW.

Hi Norman!

You have had a very interesting life!

Another classmate from the Remove came to mind,and a divvent knaa hoo we cud forget her...[me especially seeing as she is related to my Sister-in-law].........

...Hilda Storey...a real canny lass,as was aal the lasses and lads in wor class...whey mebbe not AAL thi lads.....there were four particular lads who verbally bullied,harassed,and humiliated me in front of the class,and sumtimes half of thi school,just aboot every day till I left school.

I was always very strong willed,being a Leo,and told nobody,not the teachers,nor my parents,nobody !

My best mates,Martin Nicholson,and Dennis Green,used ti encourage me to just totally ignore them...which I did for about a year,then one day I let loose at one in the Metalwork class,giving him a shock,and a sore rib!,just as Mr Epsley waaked inti the class,so we just got on wi wa work and neither of us said owt.

That lad was an excellent cricketer,and I think he played for Bedlington Cricket Club,in later years.

The other ringleader was the Northumberland Schools Champion runner on the track,and even though he bullied me,I used ti to be at the trackside egging him on

ti win.which he usually did comfortably.....it's strange you should say you bumped into him doon sooth!!

Wish I cud bump inti him,[them!],I bet we wud hev a gud laugh at hoo they went on as kids![BIG kids.....14+ years old!....I was working in rough wet conditions,underground, only  months after aal this!

Heh heh! If only we knew where life was gonna lead us!!

A canna mind o' Keith Smith,Norman,and if ye went through the same schools,in the same class as Len Thompson,which Aa did as weel,reet through school life...beginning ti end....yi hae me beat!

Hae yi checked oot thi Infant school pic in thi gallery,which aa posted?,[pic credit goes to Jim Hardy,back row-second from left,next ti me,aam extreme left back row]

That pic shud bring back a few memories!! ...nature waaks doon thi black path,[Furnace bridge waak],play-times in the school field behind the church.....!

Past history noo,Sym,sentence served..free to do other nasty things...that is...if he is still alive.

I understand from previous posts on the forums that he has family living near and we should respect that,and I do....but I canna help but feel the utmost sympathy

for the family of his very young female murder victim,many years ago,whose Dad I worked underground with and who turned overnight from comedian doon thi pit amang the lads,to a virtual walking zombie,long after the incident,and never got over it.

Let's not forget.

Hi Vic,testing testing.......Broadsword calling Danny Boy....Broadsword calling Danny Boy!!  [...in an English Richard Burton voice...!] [pasted from me mailbox-experiment!]

A did it! A did it!

Vic,ya a star!if ever a see ye in a pub aal buy ye a glass o' milk!....Whey aam a teetotaller!

Cheers marra!

Thanks again!

Hi Joe,welcome to the forum!

Ye wadn't hae been the little bugger hoo swore at me and spat at me when a waaked up me marra's garden path ti seek him....wad ye?!.....[aroond 1961-ish!!!]

Young Joe lived next door ti me marra,and the two little we'ens were aalwis playing in the garden,and that day,one of the we'ens did just that for nae reason!!......

.....little bugga!![mind he wudda ownly been aboot 2 or 3 years aad!! heh heh!....kids will be kids..!]

Aav just been asking  Brian if Jimmy Steel is any relation,a Bates Pit Marra who went ti live in Australia a few years ago? [on a different page..]

Cheers mate!