Global Warming

[threegee]

I've long suspected that it was all a load of rubbish, but now the sceptics have convinced me. Of late it has become an entire industry with lucrative careers built on the myth. When you use a limited data set you can "scientifically prove" almost anything, but as more and more conflicting data comes in this becomes increasingly difficult.

I have a feeling that this mass delusion is about to be exposed. Slowly at first, then on to the amusing part i.e. watching the "ship jumpers" and their attempts to rationalise their past barmy behaviour.

How can we even contemplate spending the vast sums being bandied about on such a crazy idea that we can have any major long term influence on the Earth's climate? Is it even desirable to try, given the huge natural changes that have taken place in the past?

Don't get me wrong, I'm very much in favour of cleaning up the unholy mess we make of our planet, not breathing in muck and lead etc., and certainly DO more than most. But, if politicians spent just a tiny tiny part of the money (our money!) they are throwing at GW on cleaning up our hospitals properly, thousands of people wouldn't be dying every year in the UK alone. We could get kids off the streets and out of the drug habit, and still have change to do other important things.

Why are staggering sums of public money available in a vain and pointless attempt to alter the world climate by a mere degree or two, but totally insignificant amounts never available for a town like Bedlington to build a youth/sports center and address real problems?

[Malcolm Robinson]

Why are staggering sums of public money available in a vain and pointless attempt to alter the world climate by a mere degree or two, but totally insignificant amounts never available for a town like Bedlington to build a youth/sports center and address real problems?

Now GGG if I didn't know better I would think you were schooled in the art of politico speak, appealing to people's other rightful injustices and greavances to make your point!

The whole problem with this subject is when the proof is avaiable it is too late to do anything about it. It may be entering into the realms of a subsitute religion for some but all of our pollution must have an effect?

[Hamburger Pimp]

Come on Al Gore, never mind that environment tommyrot, when is Bedlington getting a youth club, eh?

Eh?

[Mr Darn]

Come on Al Gore, never mind that environment tommyrot, when is Bedlington getting a youth club, eh?

Eh?

And a sports center... i'm fancying myself a game of squash! Bring back the old top club!

[threegee]

Come on Al Gore, never mind that environment tommyrot, when is Bedlington getting a youth club, eh?

Eh?

Clean environment very good - global warming utter tommy-rot. Don't confuse the issues!

If a tiny tiny fraction of the money being squandered on this nonsense was spent of provable environmental improvements we'd all benefit greatly.

Al Gore is someone looking for windmills to tilt at. Bush is presently perceived as an environmental Luddite - I think quite unjustly, though he may be one in other ways - so it pays lawyer's party Gore to go for this nonsense. It's a good living and a way to rise in public esteem - without actually doing anything!

[Hamburger Pimp]

Are you denying that global warning is happening or merely stating that the efforts being made to try to reverse it are futile?

How can we even contemplate spending the vast sums being bandied about on such a crazy idea that we can have any major long term influence on the Earth's climate?

We've already had a major effect on the Earth's climate. Is it so crazy to attempt to put things right?

But, if politicians spent just a tiny tiny part of the money (our money!) they are throwing at GW on cleaning up our hospitals properly, thousands of people wouldn't be dying every year in the UK alone. We could get kids off the streets and out of the drug habit, and still have change to do other important things.

The government are spending an absolute fortune on cleaning hospital wards.

As for the drug situation, I didn't realise we had a solution to this, if only the politicians would spend the money. What are they like, eh?

[threegee]

Now GGG if I didn't know better I would think you were schooled in the art of politico speak, appealing to people's other rightful injustices and greavances to make your point!

I mention that only to relate it to real world problems; our own little corner of the world; and this bit of cyberspace. Honest I do!

The whole problem with this subject is when the proof is available it is too late to do anything about it.

That's a very unscientific, and unconvincing, argument for spending a huge proportion of the entire world gross economic product. So why don't we start building a fleet of giant nuclear-tipped rockets to blow the next wayward asteroid to kingdom come? There's universal scientific agreement that we face the "big-one" sooner or later. Even the broad range of statistical possibilities will have few if any dissenters. The solid evidence and inevitability is there right now, and by the time any specific threat is clear it will likely be "too late to do anything about it".

I think the reason it's not a hot topic is that the sums don't add up, so it's better to put the possibility to the back of our minds and only act as best we can when disaster is looming. The GW doom+disaster scenario on the other hand has no real sums, or any convincing evidence. It's all pure conjecture by those who have a lot to gain by promoting it. There are many dissenting scientific voices but their plain speaking doesn't put food on anyone's table, or build any reputations, or sell any popular newspapers. My bet now is that these scientists will be slowly but inexorably be proven right. But that won't stop all sorts of circle-squaring and self-justifying nonsense from those who have been sucked in by this tulip-mania.

It may be entering into the realms of a subsitute religion for some but all of our pollution must have an effect?

Yes, it does. But only what we can see and measure directly. The oceans are a huge CO2 reservoir, vastly greater than you could imagine, and all part of the self-regulating mechanism we've been provided with. They've survived far worse than a few car exhausts in the past.

Where did the exhaust emissions come from in the first place? It's a closed loop, but with a little engineering and ingenuity we can make it a much tighter closed loop for recirculating the Sun's energy. Bio-fuels are one of the answers but there is no single magic cure like we were led to believe (by our politicians!) in the 1950's.

[threegee]

Are you denying that global warning is happening or merely stating that the efforts being made to try to reverse it are futile?

We've already had a major effect on the Earth's climate. Is it so crazy to attempt to put things right?

It's a matter of degree. It's not happening to anything like the degree the politicians have been suckered into believing. And, in historic terms, it is completely insignificant.

There is nothing to put right except clean up the obvious pollutants. CO2 is NOT a pollutant - it's part of the Earth's biosystem. That's where it came from in the first place and that's where it will go.

The government are spending an absolute fortune on cleaning hospital wards.

If true then why are more and more people dying of hospital related diseases? Other countries have nailed this problem stone dead!

As for the drug situation, I didn't realise we had a solution to this, if only the politicians would spend the money. What are they like, eh?

Ask any professional and they will tell you that youth facilities and education will vastly alleviate drug abuse and related petty crime. But - apparently - there are few votes in providing the necessary.

[Andy Millne]

Maybe we should introduce a "green tax" based on the capacity of our lungs and the amount of CO2 we exhale. I can picture it now, we'll all be walking around with 6 or 12 month discs stuck to our foreheads.

[Malcolm Robinson]

Maybe we should introduce a "green tax" based on the capacity of our lungs and the amount of CO2 we exhale. I can picture it now, we'll all be walking around with 6 or 12 month discs stuck to our foreheads.

Don't mock fourgee with this Gov anything is possible!

[threegee]

Maybe we should introduce a "green tax" based on the capacity of our lungs and the amount of CO2 we exhale. I can picture it now, we'll all be walking around with 6 or 12 month discs stuck to our foreheads.

Having people sitting at computers all over the place actually trading carbon emissions is about as crazy a situation you can imagine. They contribute absolutely nothing to anything. In fact all those pointless offices contribute to the very problem they are supposed to be combating!

Yet, the real poluters - those distributing huge amounts of plastic - continue in their addiction to automation convenience tax free! There's no beach anywhere on our planet that isn't totally littered with the stuff, and wildlife can no longer cope.

Why no tax on plastic packaging? Because it's politiclly unacceptable; it would lose votes!

The logical extension of the carbon trading madness is to trade deaths. When you die all your carbon is released to the environment again, so, using current logic, somebody must pay for this. A carbon tax on dying is the obvious solution. This would introduce the offence of intent to die without a permit!

[Pete]

Having people sitting at computers all over the place actually trading carbon emissions is about as crazy a situation you can imagine. They contribute absolutely nothing to anything. In fact all those pointless offices contribute to the very problem they are supposed to be combating!

Yet, the real poluters - those distributing huge amounts of plastic - continue in their addiction to automation convenience tax free! There's no beach anywhere on our planet that isn't totally littered with the stuff, and wildlife can no longer cope.

Why no tax on plastic packaging? Because it's politiclly unacceptable; it would lose votes!

The logical extension of the carbon trading madness is to trade deaths. When you die all your carbon is released to the environment again, so, using current logic, somebody must pay for this. A carbon tax on dying is the obvious solution. This would introduce the offence of intent to die without a permit!

Brown has recently announced that he is looking into the plastic packaging and carrier bag situation (could be a load of hot air from Bungler Brown). I believe that Sainsbury's are charging for their carrier bags in an attempt to cut the number used, (a cleaver idea to charge you to advertise their business)

As for global warming theres nothing that anybody can do about it but your right it does give some a good living. Is global warming a fact or is it just natural climate change that the planets been through before?

Sit back and enjoy life its to short to worry about.

[Malcolm Robinson]

The logical extension of the carbon trading madness is to trade deaths. When you die all your carbon is released to the environment again, so, using current logic, somebody must pay for this. A carbon tax on dying is the obvious solution. This would introduce the offence of intent to die without a permit!

Guess we would all be guilty on that one!

[threegee]

The REAL inconvenient truth: Zealotry over global warming could damage our Earth far more than climate change - Nigel Lawson

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

I think he's bang-on right about this being a replacement for religion - especially in Europe. The reaction of some so-called scientists to the recently published figures showing that there has been no measurable increase in overall temperatures this century so far is about the same as you'd expect from an archbishop if you questioned the second coming!

[justme]

Brown has recently announced that he is looking into the plastic packaging and carrier bag situation (could be a load of hot air from Bungler Brown). I believe that Sainsbury's are charging for their carrier bags in an attempt to cut the number used, (a cleaver idea to charge you to advertise their business)

As for global warming theres nothing that anybody can do about it but your right it does give some a good living. Is global warming a fact or is it just natural climate change that the planets been through before?

Sit back and enjoy life its to short to worry about.

I tend to agree with the fact that it could just be natural climate change. After all it is getting colder & summers are shorter. Maybe we are heading for another ice age. Although it rains more these days so maybe it's the floods that are coming, I just don't know, I believe in fate & if thats what's install for then there's nothing we can do. So stop worrying about it & have fun while you can. You only live once. Or do you. Hopefully we'll all be long gone before it has any real affect & the government are just trying to get more money out of us by feeding us with proper gander. As usual.

I mean why do they call it global warming. I can't feel it getting any warmer can you.

[Malcolm Robinson]

The REAL inconvenient truth: Zealotry over global warming could damage our Earth far more than climate change - Nigel Lawson

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

I think he's bang-on right about this being a replacement for religion - especially in Europe. The reaction of some so-called scientists to the recently published figures showing that there has been no measurable increase in overall temperatures this century so far is about the same as you'd expect from an archbishop if you questioned the second coming!

So why is there great tracts of ice shelf breaking off into the sea, glaciers melting etc? Certainly looks to me like we have increased the natural flow of the planet's climate. Changes which took centurys now take decades or even less years.

Like religions until its 'nailed', no pun intended, it is a religion, belief beased on faith........

[Hamburger Pimp]

proper gander.

[threegee]

So why is there great tracts of ice shelf breaking off into the sea, glaciers melting etc?

Yup, they got me on that one too! Looks pretty convincing these shots of melting glaciers, and solitary penguins or polar bears floating away on a large chunk of ice. The camera never lies etc... That was until I took a detailed look at the map. In fact over on the other side of the ice shelf there are areas where it's thickening, and in the middle too.

How do they get their polar ice core samples of past climatic conditions? Ice doesn't continually build up for ever, it has to go somewhere. Sure there are glaciers melting, but there are also ones thickening. All too easy to take a camera (or mug reporters) to show what you want to show, and no more.

Like religions until its 'nailed', no pun intended, it is a religion, belief beased on faith........

On a re-read I see you mentioned religion well before Nigel Lawson. You should ask him for a credit in his new book!

Anyway, this is what the so-called scientists are now reduced to: We concede that recent figures don't show any change, but it's just a statistical blip. It's going to start up again in 2009 or... (insert today's year of convenience), just you wait and see! In fact it's they who are looking at a statistical blip - they've based this lunacy on only a couple of decades.

Their computer models were badly wrong at the instant the predictions were coming off their printers, yet we are supposed to believe that they can even get into the ball park fifty and one hundred years hence. But even the wildest scenario they can produce from simplistic computer models isn't good enough; there has to be a hidden run-away effect - that no one can actually model - resulting in doom & disaster.

Then, when it is shown that a highly improbable +3c to +4c "disastrous rise" could be easily coped with and would throw up more benefits than problems, the goal posts are moved to the third world and there's an appeal to our morals; as if the third world could make no progress in 50 or 100 years! In just a few decades it looks likely the third world will enjoy living standards better than we have now. That's unless the green loonies have their way, and put us all back into the middle ages!

None of this has anything to do with science, it's just scare politics of the worst kind. There are plenty of genuine problems in this world without setting out to invent them. But real problems need real solutions; you can't go flying off to an international conference on the other side of the world, and throw out sound bites for the international media, If you're an aspiring big-league politician that's the inconvenient truth!

[Denzel]

Well-spotted!