October 11, 200916 yr I think we are getting confused; there is no UK political party where the 'great unwashed' get to vote for its leader. At the very best it is the party rank and file who do that so saying a 'normal' guy off the street can choose a party leader is just daft. Of course the public will identify a party with its leader but there are whole host organisations who are supposed to make policy for individual parties so we haven't got the presidential system just yet, or supposedly we haven't. Each party has clear rules of leader election in their constitutions the fact that sometimes it happens mid term says more about the reasons behind the timing than anything else. I don't really have a problem with that I have a problem with unelected people sitting in cabinet. I know there is an argument for, citing times of national emergency, but is that really the case at present? Yes there has just been a real national and international dilemma but there was a party in control with a mandate to control that situation, the fact is they ran away from their core creed and we now have a hybrid type of political executive. At the very least it shows the lack of regard the leadership hold their fellow party MP's in as they have felt it necessary to go outside of that body to fill seats in cabinet, to say nothing about how close to their hearts they hold their party's core beliefs!
October 11, 200916 yr I think we are getting confused; there is no UK political party where the 'great unwashed' get to vote for its leader. At the very best it is the party rank and file who do that so saying a 'normal' guy off the street can choose a party leader is just daft. Of course the public will identify a party with its leader but there are whole host organisations who are supposed to make policy for individual parties so we haven't got the presidential system just yet, or supposedly we haven't. Each party has clear rules of leader election in their constitutions the fact that sometimes it happens mid term says more about the reasons behind the timing than anything else. I don't really have a problem with that I have a problem with unelected people sitting in cabinet. I know there is an argument for, citing times of national emergency, but is that really the case at present? Yes there has just been a real national and international dilemma but there was a party in control with a mandate to control that situation, the fact is they ran away from their core creed and we now have a hybrid type of political executive. At the very least it shows the lack of regard the leadership hold their fellow party MP's in as they have felt it necessary to go outside of that body to fill seats in cabinet, to say nothing about how close to their hearts they hold their party's core beliefs!Well Malcolm, my last post may have been a bit misleading and you are correct that Joe public do not have a vote when it comes to electing a party leader, but I still stand by what I said.Party leaders are thrown at us (Joe Public) constantly by TV and news papers, the only time I hear about my local MP is in the local paper and there's not much of that, its usually the party leader that gets thrown at you. This is not meant to be offensive but if you ask people in your local area who there local MP is some would not know but they would know the party leaders.People vote for the party leader in a general election, gone are the days when we voted for the local MP like in the days of Edward James "Eddie" Milne the MP for Blyth, in those days I was not fully aware of who the party leader was simply because I was not been constantly thrown at me.I agree with your point about none elected people been put in a position of rule never having had a vote cast for them and yes it does show a total lack of respect by their leadership who are really saying that legally elected MP's are not capable of government positions
October 11, 200916 yr Pete,I really do understand where you are coming from; nowadays it's more about popularism and almost celebrity rather than the essential differences between party philosophies, i.e., the bit which is supposed to offer you a choice. The normal hum drum of politics at base level is seen as too boring for mass appeal and so is almost disregarded by the national media in favour, as you say, of the slick PR sensitive guys who front the parties. The problem is that it is the political boiler rooms which effect people in their normal lives and without the close inspection and reporting which are needed, things get through which might not be seen by the majority as advantageous or even warranted. I also take your point about people 'knowing' their elected representatives; do you know your MEP, arguably even more important than a domestic MP with the Lisbon Treaty almost in operation!
October 11, 200916 yr I also take your point about people 'knowing' their elected representatives; do you know your MEP, arguably even more important than a domestic MP with the Lisbon Treaty almost in operation!I have to be honest Malcolm, I have not got a clue who my MEP is. I voted against Europe in the seventies when Edward Heath held a reforendom on whether we should join or not. I am against Europe but that is no excuse why I should not know who my MEP is as I did vote in the last MEP election.
October 11, 200916 yr I also take your point about people 'knowing' their elected representatives; do you know your MEP, arguably even more important than a domestic MP with the Lisbon Treaty almost in operation!I have to be honest Malcolm, I have not got a clue who my MEP is. I voted against Europe in the seventies when Edward Heath held a reforendom on whether we should join or not. I am against Europe but that is no excuse why I should not know who my MEP is as I did vote in the last MEP election. its roger helmer ! ring any bells! his website looks a bit looney if you ask me!
October 12, 200916 yr I have to be honest Malcolm, I have not got a clue who my MEP is. I voted against Europe in the seventies when Edward Heath held a reforendom on whether we should join or not. I am against Europe but that is no excuse why I should not know who my MEP is as I did vote in the last MEP election. its roger helmer ! ring any bells! his website looks a bit looney if you ask me! Does not ring any bells Monsta but thanks anyway, I did not vote for him, cant say who I voted for it may cause a row.
October 12, 200916 yr his website looks a bit looney if you ask me! I have just read his web page and yes I would agree.
October 13, 200916 yr I also take your point about people 'knowing' their elected representatives; do you know your MEP, arguably even more important than a domestic MP with the Lisbon Treaty almost in operation!I have to be honest Malcolm, I have not got a clue who my MEP is. I voted against Europe in the seventies when Edward Heath held a reforendom on whether we should join or not. I am against Europe but that is no excuse why I should not know who my MEP is as I did vote in the last MEP election. Pete,And here's me thinking you were just a young whippersnapper! Voting in the seventies, I can now blame you for everything that has gone wrong with UK politics! As for the parking charges, the new Town Council have come out against any implementation. That's OK then!!!!!!!
October 13, 200916 yr I have to be honest Malcolm, I have not got a clue who my MEP is. I voted against Europe in the seventies when Edward Heath held a reforendom on whether we should join or not. I am against Europe but that is no excuse why I should not know who my MEP is as I did vote in the last MEP election. Pete,And here's me thinking you were just a young whippersnapper! Voting in the seventies, I can now blame you for everything that has gone wrong with UK politics! As for the parking charges, the new Town Council have come out against any implementation. That's OK then!!!!!!!Glad to hear the parking charges are not going to happen, I can now return and park my car and take a leisurely walk up the front street
October 13, 200916 yr Well seen you don't live here nowadays Pete. Front Street is an obstacle course at the moment; either that or they are training residents for the decathlon.
October 14, 200916 yr Well seen you don't live here nowadays Pete. Front Street is an obstacle course at the moment; either that or they are training residents for the decathlon.or al qaeda ps pete sorry to hear that your now one of the minority in leicester Edited October 14, 200916 yr by Monsta®
October 14, 200916 yr or al qaeda ps pete sorry to hear that your now one of the minority in leicester I was in the minority when I arrived here in 1970, now I think I am the only one left, not many people speak English here.
October 15, 200916 yr Superb stuff nearly as good as nick griffin on question time! at last some with proper views!
October 15, 200916 yr What the Nick that has just been done for the racist's nature of their recruiting campaign?
October 16, 200916 yr What the Nick that has just been done for the racist's nature of their recruiting campaign?there not racist blacks and pakistani's can now join! its more to do with stopping the masses from overcrowding our country, taking what jobs there are and putting a tremendous strain on the benifits system.
October 16, 200916 yr there not racist blacks and pakistani's can now join!Well they can now.......http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/10/16/bnp-humiliated-as-the-party-is-ordered-to-accept-non-white-members-115875-21750984/its more to do with stopping the masses from overcrowding our country, taking what jobs there are and putting a tremendous strain on the benifits system.Thats the trouble with this sort of thing.....a little bit of credability wrapped up in a maelstrom of xenophobia and bigotry and hey presto some people think they have found the answer to all their problems!
October 16, 200916 yr Thats the trouble with this sort of thing.....a little bit of credability wrapped up in a maelstrom of xenophobia and bigotry and hey presto some people think they have found the answer to all their problems!whats wrong with a big of bigotry if it sorts the country out? for far to long the british have be to placid and took it up the wrongin! its about time we stood up to these masses and ship them back to there own country. where is the rascism in that?
October 16, 200916 yr What is racism? If everybody in the world is part of the human race then the race issue does not exist, cultural differences maybe.
October 17, 200916 yr Pete,To answer your question first........Racism......animosity towards other races and/or belief in racial superiority.Cultural differences are quite another thing and one which should be something to be proud of and promoted, if only to expand knowledge and gain insights into other ways of doings the things we take for granted. We are naturally gregarious and curious but at the same time we still hold a little reserve back just in case. Probably a genetic thing, flight or fight. Some people use that fear of differences to promote their own agendas and using skin colour or cultural differences I would call racism. It is a tribal thing and if we hadn't used our intelligence to overcome this conditioning the human race would still be very parochial and our modern world much different. Monsta,whats wrong with a big of bigotry if it sorts the country out?It can't because of what it produces. Once you go down that road you will end up at a place no right minded person would want to be at. I can understand your argument and I see the problem, and I guess immigration will become a lead matter in the soon to be election, but as long as we resolve the question with a degree of intelligence, open mindedness and fairness that will be something most people will back.
October 18, 200916 yr Intellegence? Open mindedness? Fairness? What????? The divide between us and the so called people in power is vast and I mean vast!Nobody in power has the balls to stand up to these people.Sharia law has no place in this country, if they want sharia law they know where to find it! And its not on the streets of this country. End Of!!!!!!!Rascism in this country....NEVER.......................we are all treated the same...........................aren't we...........................
October 18, 200916 yr Nobody in power has the balls to stand up to these people.Don't think that's quite right. I think what has happened is an overcompensation, imposed by the liberal PC brigade, and given our tendency as a culture towards masochism we now see positive discrimination being used more and more to show just how tolerant we are as a society. The fact that 2 wrongs never make a right is conveniently sidestepped. The great melting pot ideals of the 60's fails to take into consideration the, much needed, cultural differences we all have and will produce an homogenous introspective society which destroys the very fabric which made it attractive in the first place.
October 18, 200916 yr too many long words in Malcolm! I thought you would av gest that am not ejucatd enuff for all them.But never mind you know where I'm coming from...............Bedlington of course
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