Petrol

[Merlin]

Artificial petrol that costs 19p a litre could be on the forecourts in less than three years. British scientists are refining a recipe for a hydrogen based based fuel that will run in existing cars. With hydrogen as its base rather than carbon, it's emissions will be zero. Here's the crunch with duties it will cost 60p a litre and AA president Edmund King warned "The fact that hydrogen is cheaper now doesn't mean it always will be because the Government would soon get it's hands on it and increase the tax"

Which is a point I was going to raise! If we have zero emissions from this new fuel, then everybody would not have to pay road tax! Where would the CON PARTY get their money from then. This should really please Governmental green pushers, should it not. I get the feeling it would not, as they could not then blame car users for global warming, and use this as an excuse to tax and condemn car users!

Another point though, how can I put it, more sinister point, what are the oil barons going to do about this, potentially this could wipe them off the market, no longer can they hold the world to ransom! Basically they would be finished, finito and caput. Do you really think that these people will let this happen? I can see the hot line to the hitmen ringing now. Or this idea will disappear with the scientists either VERY well off or considerably DEAD!

Edited January 29, 2011 by Merlin

[Keith Scantlebury]

Artificial petrol that costs 19p a litre could be on the forecourts in less than three years. British scientists are refining a recipe for a hydrogen based based fuel that will run in existing cars. With hydrogen as its base rather than carbon, it's emissions will be zero. Here's the crunch with duties it will cost 60p a litre and AA president Edmund King warned "The fact that hydrogen is cheaper now doesn't mean it always will be because the Government would soon get it's hands on it and increase the tax"

Which is a point I was going to raise! If we have zero emissions from this new fuel, then everybody would not have to pay road tax! Where would the CON PARTY get their money from then. This should really please Governmental green pushers, should it not. I get the feeling it would not, as they could not then blame car users for global warming, and use this as an excuse to tax and condemn car users!

Another point though, how can I put it, more sinister point, what are the oil barons going to do about this, potentially this could wipe them off the market, no longer can they hold the world to ransom! Basically they would be finished, finito and caput. Do you really think that these people will let this happen? I can see the hot line to the hitmen ringing now. Or this idea will disappear with the scientists either VERY well off or considerably DEAD!

Back in the 80's Farmway were trialing the early forms of bio-diesel made from rapeseed oil. They had all of their trucks and vans running on this fuel at a fraction of the cost of conventional diesel and even before the trials were complete the government at the time slapped so much duty on it,it wasn't even worth completing the trial. The easier we try to make life for ourselves, the more the government wants us to pay for it. That means any goverment, no matter who is in power, now or any time in the future. The saying, "what goes up, must come down" does not, and will never apply to the cost of running a car.

[sizsells]

Its no different than the Pharmacutical Industry....... there are cures for allsorts of illnesses but no diseases = no money.

[Brett]

Artificial petrol that costs 19p a litre could be on the forecourts in less than three years. British scientists are refining a recipe for a hydrogen based based fuel that will run in existing cars. With hydrogen as its base rather than carbon, it's emissions will be zero. Here's the crunch with duties it will cost 60p a litre and AA president Edmund King warned "The fact that hydrogen is cheaper now doesn't mean it always will be because the Government would soon get it's hands on it and increase the tax"

Which is a point I was going to raise! If we have zero emissions from this new fuel, then everybody would not have to pay road tax! Where would the CON PARTY get their money from then. This should really please Governmental green pushers, should it not. I get the feeling it would not, as they could not then blame car users for global warming, and use this as an excuse to tax and condemn car users!

Another point though, how can I put it, more sinister point, what are the oil barons going to do about this, potentially this could wipe them off the market, no longer can they hold the world to ransom! Basically they would be finished, finito and caput. Do you really think that these people will let this happen? I can see the hot line to the hitmen ringing now. Or this idea will disappear with the scientists either VERY well off or considerably DEAD!

Weren't Honda leading the forefront in researching Hydrogen fuel cells, only issue they had the trouble with was actually harnassing it due to the flammability of Hydrogen.

Honda unveils FCX Clarity advanced fuel cell electric vehicle at motor show in US

A fuel cell reverses the electrolysis of water, producing electricity through the chemical reaction of hydrogen and oxygen to turn an electric motor and power the vehicle. Fuel cell electric vehicles produce no CO2 or any harmful emissions whatsoever.

Honda began road testing fuel cell electric vehicles in 1999. In December 2002, Honda delivered fuel cell electric vehicles to both the Japanese Cabinet Office and to the City of Los Angeles. Honda continued to develop its fuel cell technology with the goal of more widespread commercialization and, in 2003, released the FCX featuring the Honda FC Stack, the world'ss first fuel cell able to generate power at –20°C. Then, in 2006, Honda achieved fuel cell power generation at –30°C. Also in 2006, the FCX Concept featuring the more compact and higher-output V Flow FC Stack made its driving debut.

In November 2007, Honda unveiled the FCX Clarity advanced fuel cell electric vehicle featuring a fuel cell stack that was lighter, more compact and more powerful than ever before. With exceptional output of 100 kW, the stack featured a 50 percent increase in output density by volume and 67 percent by mass. As compared to its predecessor the FCX, the FCX Clarity offered 20 percent higher fuel economy and a 30 percent greater vehicle range.*

The FCX Clarity was the world's first vehicle to feature Honda's original plant-based Honda Bio-Fabric in its interior. The FCX Clarity also offered climate-controlled seats, which can warm and cool the occupant directly, helping to reduce the overall amount of electricity used for heating and cooling. Honda began leasing the FCX Clarity to individual customers in the United States in July 2008, and in Japan in November 2008.

BBC article

Its no different than the Pharmacutical Industry....... there are cures for allsorts of illnesses but no diseases = no money.

Mrs Brettly practices complimentary and alternative therapies and at the moment they are attempting to pass laws against the use & purchase of (predominently chinese) herbal medicines unless you are a registered homeopath etc. A way of controlling how many people can obtain and use alternative medicines.

They seem to forget the fact that these medicines originated from our ancesters who experimented with natural remedies. If you start getting into the whole "Big Pharma" argument it's a whole new can of worms however.

[Keith Scantlebury]

Your Mrs might just be on the right track doing things the old fashioned way Brettly, may be that steam power is the way forward [just need a clean green fuel to make it]

[sizsells]

Weren't Honda leading the forefront in researching Hydrogen fuel cells, only issue they had the trouble with was actually harnassing it due to the flammability of Hydrogen.

BBC article

Mrs Brettly practices complimentary and alternative therapies and at the moment they are attempting to pass laws against the use & purchase of (predominently chinese) herbal medicines unless you are a registered homeopath etc. A way of controlling how many people can obtain and use alternative medicines.

They seem to forget the fact that these medicines originated from our ancesters who experimented with natural remedies. If you start getting into the whole "Big Pharma" argument it's a whole new can of worms however.

I never mentioned "alternative" medicine.

The "Pharma" Industry is no different from the Petrolium Industry the parallels are there to be seen.

[Brian Cross]

Here in Australia scientists were until recently working on a process to make coal clean or minimal harmful emissions when burnt i don't know what happened but the concept was suddenly dropped by the Federal Govt .....

[Brett]

Back in the 80's Farmway were trialing the early forms of bio-diesel made from rapeseed oil. They had all of their trucks and vans running on this fuel at a fraction of the cost of conventional diesel and even before the trials were complete the government at the time slapped so much duty on it,it wasn't even worth completing the trial. The easier we try to make life for ourselves, the more the government wants us to pay for it. That means any goverment, no matter who is in power, now or any time in the future. The saying, "what goes up, must come down" does not, and will never apply to the cost of running a car.

Mrs Brettly practices complimentary and alternative therapies and at the moment they are attempting to pass laws against the use & purchase of (predominently chinese) herbal medicines unless you are a registered homeopath etc. A way of controlling how many people can obtain and use alternative medicines.

They seem to forget the fact that these medicines originated from our ancesters who experimented with natural remedies. If you start getting into the whole "Big Pharma" argument it's a whole new can of worms however.

I never mentioned "alternative" medicine.

The "Pharma" Industry is no different from the Petrolium Industry the parallels are there to be seen.

I didn't say that you did! I was mainly making the same comparison as you. The fuel companies and the government don't want alternative sources of bio-diesels & fuels due to the taxation on current fuels just like the pharmaceuticals companies don't want alternative medicines available as if people started using cheaper alternatives then they wouldn't make any money.

[Keith Scantlebury]

I didn't say that you did! I was mainly making the same comparison as you. The fuel companies and the government don't want alternative sources of bio-diesels & fuels due to the taxation on current fuels just like the pharmaceuticals companies don't want alternative medicines available as if people started using cheaper alternatives then they wouldn't make any money.

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

[Brett]

On the subject of the hydrogen fuel cells however, I didn't realise that they had distributed cars to people. Im guessing that the unit & retail cost of the cells is too high at the moment and it will just be time that determines when the price comes down like any technology.

I had a quick 15 minute search about after posting yesterday and although the Honda's aren't the most amazing looking cars it is definitely the way forward. Marty McFly clearly had it all wrong when he thought about hovering cars....

[sizsells]

I didn't say that you did! I was mainly making the same comparison as you. The fuel companies and the government don't want alternative sources of bio-diesels & fuels due to the taxation on current fuels just like the pharmaceuticals companies don't want alternative medicines available as if people started using cheaper alternatives then they wouldn't make any money.

It was,nt that clear then was it

And your also wrong if you "think" they dont want alternative fuels because believe me it will be treat as ANOTHER source of income for them.

I also said the that the pharmaceutical companies had CURES for disease,s which they did,nt want to introduce because of the financial implications.

Alternative medicines have been practiced for centuries and there are arguments for and against.

I,m not as informed as you appear to be with regards to the medical bodies future plans with regards to alternative medicines, however having walked around the Metro Center in the past and being accosted by Chinese looking individuals who have ancient cures for all sorts of ailments which I dont suffer from, makes me think registering bonafide herbalist,s etc is,nt such a bad idea its about credentials and peace of mind.

Oh and I have used accupuncture in the past to great effect and I prefer not to take medication unless absolutly neccessary so to an extent I,m an advocate of alternative medicine.