I really believe thera are many youngsters who go down this road who could be saved the journey if only they had the right map to follow.

That I would completely endorse and accept responsibility because I think its my generation which didn't provide the right map! Maybe we were all too busy amassing all the materialistic things we were told we had to have to have a fulfilled life!

Some brilliant points, Canny Lass & Malcolm, et al, and lots of room for thought. As a matter of interest I hated school and it was mainly because of the attitude of the teachers. (can you recall the teacher parody in Pinkl Floyd's The Wall - well that was about what we had to put up with.) But I still think too much emphasis is being put on schools. The first hue and cry is always "It's the school's fault." Well actually I believe respect and early learning begins at home with the parents. I've stood at bus stops and in supermarkets and heard youngster from the age of 8 upwards to 12 using language that a docker would be ashamed of - and their parents are standing next to them. But let's not miss one point in this furnace bank arson incident - do we actually know who did it? We are all saying youngsters are to blame, but has anyone been caught or identified. I mean what age limit are we looking at here?

I think its my generation which didn't provide the right map! Maybe we were all too busy amassing all the materialistic things we were told we had to have to have a fulfilled life!

EXACTLY! we'll have come a long way in solving the problem when our generation can admit that we ourselves have played a large part in this. Not just because we've been too busy amassing things materialistic - we've also been too busy voting in the wrong politicians.

But I still think too much emphasis is being put on schools. The first hue and cry is always "It's the school's fault." Well actually I believe respect and early learning begins at home with the parents. I've stood at bus stops and in supermarkets and heard youngster from the age of 8 upwards to 12 using language that a docker would be ashamed of - and their parents are standing next to them. But let's not miss one point in this furnace bank arson incident - do we actually know who did it? We are all saying youngsters are to blame, but has anyone been caught or identified. I mean what age limit are we looking at here?

Quite right Keith, we don't know who did it. It may well have been a 70-year old arsonist rebelling about a cut in pensions! However, from a behavioural point of view it could well have been the group we're discussing here. Really we're discussing behaviour and not the burning of picnic tables. I agree 100% that the meaning of respect, whether for other people, their feelings or their property, should be taught at home and during the early formative years. My argument is that this is less and less possible because family life is more or less non-existant today. Home, amid the security of the family, is undoubtedly the best place to test boundaries at an early age. It's there we learn a lot about ourselves and others and the generally accepted codes of conduct in society. I think our generation may have been the last to experience the phenomenon! If a child has that grounding it's not too difficult for a teacher to build on it. However, it is not a teacher's job to 'teach' respect. All teachers are qualified at university level in their chosen subject(s) but, as far as I'm aware, there is no subject called 'respect' to study so how can they be expected to teach it?

As you say, very often the first hue and cry is "it's the schools fault" but I think it's this lack of 'teaching respect' they are referring to. I also think that schools can be apportioned a fair share of the blame. Not bacause of what's being taught but because of how it's being taught and to whom. Really it's not the fault of school or the teachers, it's the fault of politicians who's only interest is to shine brightest of all on the European, educational night sky.

As for the bad language Keith, don't get me started again. That's another hobby-horse!

Canny Lass - I fear you may be right on our generation being the last to experience accepted codes of conduct and I didn't think I would ever say this but I do believe TV and media play a vital - finger-pointing role as well. Everything is IN YOUR FACE nowadays. We have 24hr TV and most of that is Celebrity status material. And let's face it, celebrities aren't exactly role models for bringing up kids; not unless you want to have teenagers who are petulant, attention-seeking and - as Malcolm says - materialistic. We live in a ME ME ME society. Kids see 'celebrities' on TV, magazines and that Whore of Babylon Big Brother. I mean that is surely a testament of the society we now live in. Who in their right mind wants to watch that!!! And kids see this and want to emmulate. I got rid of my TV two years ago this November and I haven't missed one bit of it. All you get is this new god celebrity, false idols for the masses to worship. (Am I starting to preach here? Sorry.) But you must admit, TV and lack of censorship has got to take some of the blame. PS - Getting back to the arsonist incident. I've just hunted out last weeks News Post Leader and it says the tables were made out of recycled plastic. Could these have been set alight with a cigarette lighter or would the culprits have to have used inflammable material on them - ie was it premeditated?

I was told an accelerant was used Keith which would point to a premeditated act!

I was told an accelerant was used Keith which would point to a premeditated act!

Something like lighter fuel?

Cor Blimey Canny ... I just settled down with a cup of tea to quickly review the posts here but now I'm going to have to set aside a good hour or so ....

Sorry Symptoms, you know how it is with women and the gift of the gabb! I'll just keep quiet shall I?

No, no, no, keep-up the good work Canny.

They've got three kids for it - Let's see what happens next . . .

caution?

call their bluff? Then if they continue get a cold wet fish.

If there wasn't a shortage of fish, I'd say get a boat load!

They've got three kids for it

Anybody know what ages we're talking about here?

Anybody know what ages we're talking about here?

12 &13 according to the local free paper (NPL)

Edited July 27, 201213 yr by keith

they obviously didn't catch all of them

because one of the posts that mark the edge of the 'Wild' area next to the road at the black bridge is black as coal.

or

it may have been torched!

Edited July 28, 201213 yr by curly

Just bairns!

Just bairns!

god bless em eh Canny Lass

god bless em eh Canny Lass

In some ways yes. Makes you wonder where the older generation is going wrong.

In some ways yes. Makes you wonder where the older generation is going wrong.

we've got no way of controlling kids, its all been taken away, you cannot chastise, speak to or punish children in any way.

they do not respect older people, or look to them for guidence as we did.

although they do not respect themselves or where they live or anything..........but woe betide if you disrespect them or theirs!

this opinion does not appliy to all

Edited July 29, 201213 yr by curly

we've got no way of controlling kids, its all been taken away, you cannot chastise, speak to or punish children in any way.

they do not respect older people, or look to them for guidence as we did.

although they do not respect themselves or where they live or anything..........but woe betide if you disrespect them or theirs!

this opinion does not appliy to all

Amen to this

Is it because people are failing as parents or because they don't really care what their young'uns are getting up to as long as they're not pestering them?

Personally I think compulsory community service for such vandalism will help show the value of public areas. It may not work with most but taking them home to their parents isn't always going to work as the parents should be acting as a preventative towards such behaviour anyway!

ASBO's clearly havn't worked for unruly youths, community service will benefit the community they are destroying even if it doesn't teach them a lesson.

Amen to this

Is it because people are failing as parents or because they don't really care what their young'uns are getting up to as long as they're not pestering them?

Personally I think compulsory community service for such vandalism will help show the value of public areas. It may not work with most but taking them home to their parents isn't always going to work as the parents should be acting as a preventative towards such behaviour anyway!

ASBO's clearly havn't worked for unruly youths, community service will benefit the community they are destroying even if it doesn't teach them a lesson.

I may go a little stronger than that even.................

if these little darlings are under the age of criminal responsibility then the people who are responsible for them should take part too. Treating the collective rather than just the individual might well make the collective more responsible for each of the individuals which make it up.

I may go a little stronger than that even.................

if these little darlings are under the age of criminal responsibility then the people who are responsible for them should take part too. Treating the collective rather than just the individual might well make the collective more responsible for each of the individuals which make it up.

So that's where my copy of Rousseau's Social Contract went to!

So that's where my copy of Rousseau's Social Contract went to!

Well I am not recommending the death penalty for violating the social contract an individual might make with the society or community they find themselves in............yet!

Well I am not recommending the death penalty for violating the social contract an individual might make with the society or community they find themselves in............yet!

It's that word again....Yet!

But it's a good point that Brettly made - that parents aren't bothered what their kids are getting up to as long as they are not pestering them. (the parents) I used to see kids of about 13-14 rolling along drunk and it made me wonder how their parents could miss that when they staggered in. Unless the parents were out themselves, but then!!! It's like the global warming argument on another site - it is an ongoing development. In this case its behaviour. Kids have always misbehaved, raiding peoples gardens for apples, etc, in my day. But as I've said elsewhere. Also in my days there were skinheads, suadeheads, bovver boys et al. It's an ongoing problem, only now we have a meaner streak of misbehaviour in kids. It's like flavour of the week. We have just got over the Chav plague - but what is next? I'm a strong believer in prevention is better than cure; only i don't honestly know how you can prevent some people's attitude problems.

Edited July 30, 201213 yr by keith lockey