Puddler's Raa[Row]

[Jammy]

On 21/09/2020 at 18:33, Canny lass said:

The old Puddlers Row belonged not to Bedlington Station/Sleekburn, but to 'Village of Bank Top',

 When I lived in Jubilee Terrace any letters from the DWP, usually telling me I have a few pence pension rise, were always addressed Jubilee Terrace, Bank Top, Bedlington. This makes me wonder when did the DWP create a database of addresses. They were the only government department that used that address.

 I'm guessing that Howard Terrace was added to the end of Glassey Terrace sometime later. At a later date Howard terrace was name changed to Glassey terrace because of confusion with another Howard terrace at the Top End.

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

2 hours ago, Jammy said:

 When I lived in Jubilee Terrace any letters from the DWP, usually telling me I have a few pence pension rise, were always addressed Jubilee Terrace, Bank Top, Bedlington. This makes me wonder when did the DWP create a database of addresses. They were the only government department that used that address.

 

@Jammy

A short history on the ‘Ministry’ at Longbenton where the National Insurance clerical records and subsequent electronic data base on everyone in the UK that was working or retired.

The National Insurance Act started in 1911 and War pensions were paid from 1916.The department was expanded by the Labour government in 1948 to cover many more benefits. The system has been subjected to numerous amendments in succeeding years. Initially, it was a contributory form of insurance against illness and unemployment, and eventually provided retirement pensions and other benefits.

In 1953 the Pensions system and National Insurance (NI) systems combined to form the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance (MPNI) and they took over the site at Longbenton = one full group containing the 100 sections of all the clerical record sheets =  an NI record sheet with full ID + address + NI contributions paid And another group containing the 52 sections and all the clerical record sheets for everyone receiving a state retirement pension.

So at that point in time the MPNI had a clerical record of all the workers and pensioners.

The MPNI change its name in 1963 to The Department of Social Services = DSS as most people of our age new it by when we started work.

The first generation of computer systems was started in October 1961 (think it was the 4^th of October) and the Graduated Pension(GP) scheme was introduced. Initially it would mean more money into the pension fund and when people retired an addition to their pension = for every £7.50 a worker paid in Graduated Pension they would get an extra 6 pence per week on top of their pension. My first wage in 1965 was about £4.10 so it took a number of years to contribute £7.50 to get a tanner in retirement.

But what the start of the GP scheme did in 1961was introduce the first NI computer system on the Longbenton site. It didn’t contain full NI records but it was the start and in preparation for the next generation of computer systems to be introduced in 1970 (ICL 1906A computers with 256Killobytes (NOT GIG or MEGA TERRA etc .etc. bytes). The State Pensions (SP) scheme started its own computer system, on the Longbenton site, and in them days they did not talk to each other electronically. Updates to the records from one system to another was by writing the updates to magnetic tape and passing the tape to the other system so they could read the tape and process the updates.

By 1970, 2^nd Generation systems,  all the info on all the NI clerical records = all active and records of those deceased (don’t know how many million it was) had been typed into a machine that added the data onto magnetic tapes. As there were 100 NI sections (00 to 99 = the last two digits of everyone’s NI number) there were what would now be called 100 separate databases containing an address for every household in the UK that had a worker paying, or had paid NI. The same applied to the clerical pension records but they had 52 sections = 1 for every week of the year as you pension number was based on the week of the year you were born (Jan 1st to 7th pension number ended in 01 – born Dec 25th to 31^st pension number ended in 52).

Following that all benefit systems, eg Family Allowance (FA), had their own computer systems and databases (tape) with address records + benefit data and data updates between the systems was buy sending a magnetic tape from one system to whatever other system needed an update to its records.

The 1980s saw the 3^rd generation of computer systems (ICL 2980s) but the transfer of data between systems was still via magnetic tape.  

In 1990 things started to move faster and the new systems, 4^th generation, could update each other electronically.

By then everyone in the UK had a record on one of the systems so every address in the UK was on one or more of the systems.

Since then the new generations were not 10 years apart; all magnetic tape records were now on discs (terrabytes in size), and all systems were updating each other electronically. So every system new about every other system and when letters had to be sent out each system could do their bit to keep the whole of the UK informed and not duplicate anything.  

 

 

[Vic Patterson]

All I can contribute to this conversation is that I worked with an electrical contractor installing the HVAC system that cooled these massive  "advanced" computers at Longbenton......

 

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

11 hours ago, Vic Patterson said:

All I can contribute to this conversation is that I worked with an electrical contractor installing the HVAC system that cooled these massive  "advanced" computers at Longbenton......

 

Thank you Vic - the cool air in the computer halls was heaven to me☺️.

We moved from Cramlington =North facing living room to Seghill = South facing living room. At Cramlington the wife was always turning the heat up and now at Seghill she basks in the sun streaming in through the South facing window and I hide in my little cool room in the middle of the bungalow.

[Canny lass]

On 22/09/2020 at 20:07, Jammy said:

 I'm guessing that Howard Terrace was added to the end of Glassey Terrace sometime later. At a later date Howard terrace was name changed to Glassey terrace because of confusion with another Howard terrace at the Top End.

I think it might be the other way round, Jammy. Howard Terrace came first. Reedy's dad described the area in the 1950s -60s and said "Starting at what used to be Joe Jennings farm and shop including Mansion House now possibly 'Smiles' was Glassey Terrace. The first 7 houses were originally named Howard Terrace but the name was changed to Glassey Terrace as a result of misdirected mail as another Howard Terrace existed in Netherton".

Howard Terrace must therefore have started at Mansion House and could only be extended towards the Bank Top. Looking at the present day Glassey Terrace it's possible to see where the extension started because of the differing roof-  and upstairs window heights:

 

I'm pretty certain I've seen Howard Terrace in an early census. I'll see if I can find it.

There was a Howard terrace at Netherton Colliery. It was renamed Office Row but I don't know when.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Canny lass

[Jammy]

28 minutes ago, Canny lass said:

I think it might be the other way round, Jammy. Howard Terrace came first.

@Canny lass you will be correct. I can remember looking at the Howard terrace wall sign. Just got the wall it was affixed to at the wrong end of the terrace.

[Canny lass]

22 hours ago, Jammy said:

just got the wall it was affixed to at the wrong end of the terrace.

I know the feeling, Jammy! Last week I got the left and right of a photo mixed up. I think It's an 'age thing' - well, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Hi Alan,I would hate to be seen as nitpicking,but only for correctness,there were a lot of years when the "DHSS" was called the "Department of HEALTH and Social Security",did the logo " DSS" not come about in the latter few years?...I still refer to them yet ,in conversation,as the DHSS...canna mind when the change came,but me being a hoarder,I could sift through my DHSS records back to God knaas when!!..probably the 1970's at the very least!!...wor lass pulls her hair oot cos aal thraa nowt away..!! 

Sorry a canna contribute ti thi topic in question,me being a proppa Bedltntonian....from up in the posh end o' toon...near the Vicarage!..

Hi ti everybody who aav missed having a gud crack wi!!

Heavy gaanin at yem,canna cum on as often,will get better in time hopefully,Wor Lass recovering from an operation!

[Vic Patterson]

34 minutes ago, HIGH PIT WILMA said:

 

 

 

Hi ti everybody who aav missed having a gud crack wi!!

Heavy gaanin at yem,canna cum on as often,will get better in time hopefully,Wor Lass recovering from an operation!

Keep ahaad Bill, best wishes to you both. Doreen & Vic 

 

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

15 hours ago, HIGH PIT WILMA said:

Hi Alan,I would hate to be seen as nitpicking,but only for correctness,there were a lot of years when the "DHSS" was called the "Department of HEALTH and Social Security",did the logo " DSS" not come about in the latter few years?...

No problem  HPW - my mistake -jumped into me fading memory after I had closed down and I meant to correct it the next day - but I forgot.. I've updated the info below so it now has MPNI - DHSS - DSS - DWP and HMRC. 

On 22/09/2020 at 21:28, Alan Edgar (Eggy1948) said:

@Jammy

A short history on the ‘Ministry’ at Longbenton where the National Insurance clerical records and subsequent electronic data base on everyone in the UK that was working or retired.

The National Insurance Act started in 1911 and War pensions were paid from 1916.The department was expanded by the Labour government in 1948 to cover many more benefits. The system has been subjected to numerous amendments in succeeding years. Initially, it was a contributory form of insurance against illness and unemployment, and eventually provided retirement pensions and other benefits.

In 1953 the Pensions system and National Insurance (NI) systems combined to form the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance (MPNI) and they took over the site at Longbenton = one full group containing the 100 sections of all the clerical record sheets =  an NI record sheet with full ID + address + NI contributions paid And another group containing the 52 sections and all the clerical record sheets for everyone receiving a state retirement pension.

So at that point in time the MPNI had a clerical record of all the workers and pensioners.

The MPNI changed its name in 1968 to The Department of Health and Social Services = DHSS  and then it became the Department of Social Services, DSS, in 1988.  In 2001 the Department of Work and Pensions, DWP, was formed from the Department of Social Security, absorbing the employment functions which had previously been the responsibility of the Department for Education and Employment since the dissolution of the Department of Employment in 1995. Then in 2001 the DSS changed to the Department of Work and Pensions, DWP, and a lot of the work was moved to the DWP site at Tyneview Park.

Not sure exactly who does what on which site these days but  the Longbenton site will still be referred to as 'The Ministry' but it's official name is Benton Park View and is a multi-agency site of the UK Government. The complex is one of the largest secure civilian government complexes in Europe. The site is owned by Newcastle Estates Partnership and the principal tenants are  Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, HMRC, and the DWP.

The official name of the site is "Benton Park View", but it is known best, especially in Newcastle, as "The Ministry"

The first generation of computer systems was started in October 1961 (think it was the 4^th of October) and the Graduated Pension(GP) scheme was introduced. Initially it would mean more money into the pension fund and when people retired an addition to their pension = for every £7.50 a worker paid in Graduated Pension they would get an extra 6 pence per week on top of their pension. My first wage in 1965 was about £4.10 so it took a number of years to contribute £7.50 to get a tanner in retirement.

But what the start of the GP scheme did in 1961was introduce the first NI computer system on the Longbenton site. It didn’t contain full NI records but it was the start and in preparation for the next generation of computer systems to be introduced in 1970 (ICL 1906A computers with 256Killobytes (NOT GIG or MEGA TERRA etc .etc. bytes). The State Pensions (SP) scheme started its own computer system, on the Longbenton site, and in them days they did not talk to each other electronically. Updates to the records from one system to another was by writing the updates to magnetic tape and passing the tape to the other system so they could read the tape and process the updates.

By 1970, 2^nd Generation systems,  all the info on all the NI clerical records = all active and records of those deceased (don’t know how many million it was) had been typed into a machine that added the data onto magnetic tapes. As there were 100 NI sections (00 to 99 = the last two digits of everyone’s NI number) there were what would now be called 100 separate databases containing an address for every household in the UK that had a worker paying, or had paid NI. The same applied to the clerical pension records but they had 52 sections = 1 for every week of the year as you pension number was based on the week of the year you were born (Jan 1st to 7th pension number ended in 01 – born Dec 25th to 31^st pension number ended in 52).

Following that all benefit systems, eg Family Allowance (FA), had their own computer systems and databases (tape) with address records + benefit data and data updates between the systems was buy sending a magnetic tape from one system to whatever other system needed an update to its records.

The 1980s saw the 3^rd generation of computer systems (ICL 2980s) but the transfer of data between systems was still via magnetic tape.  

In 1990 things started to move faster and the new systems, 4^th generation, could update each other electronically.

By then everyone in the UK had a record on one of the systems so every address in the UK was on one or more of the systems.

Since then the new generations were not 10 years apart; all magnetic tape records were now on discs (terrabytes in size), and all systems were updating each other electronically. So every system new about every other system and when letters had to be sent out each system could do their bit to keep the whole of the UK informed and not duplicate anything.  

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)

[Symptoms]

The above reminded me of an earlier post of mine about the SS (as we always called it) and how amazed I was that any Government department could keep records (even trivial stuff) so efficiently for decades.  Who transferred the information from our 'green cards' onto Eggy's magnetic tape as I can't recall seeing any computer terminals in the Council Office Annex ... maybe, the counter gadgie had a 'hidden' keyboard below the desk linked to The Ministry mainframe.

On 03/01/2019 at 14:09, Symptoms said:

Every summer a load of us lads* spent a month or so staying in Keswick (in the town's camping site) basically getting p*ssed and funding it all through our weekly SS Giro sent 'poste restante'  from the SS Office ( in Bedders Council Offices on Front St) to Keswick post office ... it was for 4 guinees or £4.4s.  We were all in the Woolpack pub in Keswick watching the moon landing and getting p*ssed - the pub was operating a 'lock-in'.

Anyone who was 15+ and still in full-time education could 'sign-on' with the SS during the school holidays and get the the Giro;  if you were at home you had to go into the SS and sign a green card to collect the Giro.  But, if you said you were going on holiday, but were prepared to return if a job was found for you, you could arrange to have the Giro sent to a forwarding address, hence Keswick Post Office.  We operated this weeze for about 4 years every summer.  It's funny, but years later when I was in my early 60s I applied for an old age pension forcast - they sent me a list of my history of NI contribution and I got 3 years of credit due to this signing-on weeze.  I'm amazed they kept the records.

*some of those lads are members of this forum or have been rediscovered through it.

 

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

3 hours ago, Symptoms said:

The above reminded me of an earlier post of mine about the SS (as we always called it) and how amazed I was that any Government department could keep records (even trivial stuff) so efficiently for decades.  Who transferred the information from our 'green cards' onto Eggy's magnetic tape as I can't recall seeing any computer terminals in the Council Office Annex ... maybe, the counter gadgie had a 'hidden' keyboard below the desk linked to The Ministry mainframe.

 

@Symptoms -  All NI cards were delivered from the benefit offices to Longbenton where they were sorted and delivered to the 100 NI sections. The number of NI Stamps, or Credits, for each year, on a workers NI card were entered clerically onto each workers NI Record Sheet by the Clerical Officers (CO's) in the 100 NI sections on the Longbenton site. So the NI clerical records for 1948 to 1970 were added to the first NI Recording System = ICL 1906A mainframes by 'Punch Card' operators.The Punch Card sections recieved the clerical record sheets and typed the data from the Record Sheets into the Punch Card machine and a Punch Card was output. All the Punch Cards were 'Batched' and sent to the Mainframe where to cards were fed into a Punch Card Reader that read the data and and the data was written to Magnetic Tapes (MTs) and the MTs were read into various data validation programs and then written to the relevant persons NI record that was held on MTs = either 2 or 3 reels of 6260bps, 2400 foot of MT for each NI section. And the NI Main File (MF) was created.

Following that massive exercise the yearly NI contributions paid were delivered to the National Insurance Recording System (NIRS) on every type of media that an employer used = MTs (9 Track or 7 Track) - computer Discs (Amstrad - ICL - IBM etc. etc) or paper.

There was an Input Program that read all formats of MTs. Anything that wasn't sent in on MT's was converted by the Punch Card Sections to MTs. 

The Input program that read all the records coming into the system was named FORTAP = FOReign TAPe and it passed the converted data onto a set of additional input programs that would sort all the records into NI order to be passed forward to be added to the MF records held on the 2 to 3 hundred MT reels.   

Edited September 29, 2020 by Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)