Pitmatic

[Maggie/915]

Is it, or was it a term of abuse.

Robson Green has done a programme on the Pitmen Painters and maybe he could do a follow up on the subject of the language.

The play is being produced again I believe.

[johndawsonjune1955]

Here you go Maggie my first installment on a twang we may not hear much of in years to come in this part of the woods.

Two Men Talk About Grumbling

Duologue On Dark Days & Nights

Geordie and Jack drew up their chairs to the fire. It was a cold night and a black one, but there was a cheerful glow in the old pub. The two men had a long established friendship. They also liked to argue and it was a tradition observed by the rest of the company that they should be left alone.

As usual Jack opened the battle.

"Aa see that sum o' wor big men are taakin about dark days that cum on top o' the dark neets we've got noo, Whaat's the idea Geordie ?â€

"Wey, Jack, Aa divvent pretend t knaa mair than the next man but Aa've been deein a bit of thinkin aboot things, an Aa think Aa can whaat's in thor minds.â€

"Oot wiv it then†barked Jack.

"Ye see†Geordie went on. "Ye see us, like th' gov'ment expect hell t' be let loose when th' war started. We'd been warned ennuff aboot it afore.â€

"Oh Aa nivvor believed it,†said Jack.

"Ye waddent, but then ye nivvor believe owt till ivorybody else is convinced.â€

Jack grinned. "Gan on wi th' tale then.â€

Geordie said: "Blitzkrieg, th Germans call it. It means a lightin' war. Sor o' medicin they guv Poland.â€

Jack: Aa admit that; but us is not th' Poles.â€

Geordie: No, but th' enimy paraded thoosan's o' airyplanes, tanks an' a couple million soljers, just t' back Hitlor's threet tiv us if we tried t' put a chock in his game o' gobblin' up little countries.â€

Jack: "That's aall varry weel, but nowt much has happened on th' land as yit.†No wait a minnit. Aa admit we've had a lot t' dee at see an it's been dune th' reet way, an aal. God bless wor sailor lads.â€

Geordie: "Aa wasan't ganna contridict. In fact, Aa agree wi' a lot ye've said. But ma point is that people in this toon an aall owe the cuntry are getting t' act as if th' was wass sumthin' that didn't concern thum.â€

Jack: Aye, but we like a bit grumble, ye knaa.â€

Geordie: Thor's nee objection wi yor grumbles si lang as thor not serius. We'll hev anuther taak aboot such things as rationin, prices, evacuation an' lots o' uther things people are fond o' complainin' aboot.â€

Jack: "Aa'll leuk forward t' thum.â€

Geordie: But for this tyme lets just say whaat Aa started oot t' say. Wor not havin a bad tyme heor at hyem, when ye remembor thor's a war on. Thor's many a family mournin loved one alriddy. That' alone ought t' myek us pull up a bit afore startin' t' grumble. Then wor leeders af aa'll partees say dark days may be comin. Aa think th' meen we must nivvor forget that th' big ordeel hes still t be tackled. Wastin' tyme grumblin' is nee wat t' keep fit t' meet trouble.â€

Jack: "Whaat yor tryin t' say is that we shud try t' myke th' best o' things.â€

Geordie: Aye, that's aboot it.â€

Jack: Not a bad idea, th' way ye put it.â€

[Maggie/915]

Well done John.

It is very important to keep the language active.

The play The Pitman Painters has played in lots of places including Broadway.

An after show talk I heard, asked the question of the language being understood..

The cast said in Wales not many people laughed at the jokes and after the performance they asked why.

One member of the audience said they could not laugh loudly because they feared missing the next joke

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Er,just to clarify things here,Pitmatic isn't what's being spoken here,it's Northumbrian dialect.

Two different things,but maybe Northumbrian is classed as Pitmatic,through slang usage.

"EE,LUK AT THE TIME,IT'S TEN O' CLOCK AN' AAM NOT REDD AROOND YIT..."

"NOT REDD AROOND YIT"....THAT is Pitmatic..it refers to "redding a caunch"..or ya stretch of coal on the fyess....or generally cleaning up underground.

"HOWW,HOWWEH MAN,YA STANNIN' THEOR LIKE A BROKKEN PAOR O'LIMMA'S"

"COME ON THEN,YOU ARE STANDING THERE LIKE A BROKEN PAIR OF LIMBERS" [sHAFTS ON THE PONY'S GEARS]This refers to anyone slouching against a wall,or even just standing idly doing nothing.Useless really!

"YE TELL MAIR LEES THEN A COLLRY POLIS"[YOU TELL MORE LIES THAN A COLLIERY EMPLOYED POLICEMAN-NOTED FOR MAKING FALSE ACCUSATIONS AGAINST MINER'S OR ANYONE ELSE TO SECURE THEIR OWN EMPLOYMENT WITH THE OLD COAL-OWNER'S]

"KEEP YA TIMMA IN MARRA"[sO LONG MY FRIEND]

These are examples of true Pitmatic,apologies for long passages of capitals,didn''t realise caps lock was still on,i have to look at the keyboard!!

Anyone disagree with me about this subject?

[johndawsonjune1955]

Interesting quote.

I worked down the mines for many years.

I would like to think it was pitpatic i spoke when underground. I still use the twang as "Gannin te smaal coal" Is this pitmatck or Northumbrian ?

I would say its pitmatick or to debate this, is it a mixture of Pitmatic and Northumbrian then ?

Either way the two men talkin about grumbling (Te two men taakin aboot grumblin) is pitmatic in my book.

But its still good to keep this alive aint it ?

How many know what "Gannin te smaal coal" means ?

There are many of pitmatic terms i can use and still do, as i can with the spelling. But maybe there could be a slight mixture these days.

Either way its good to read and i still believe its pitmatic. Thats without getting into an argument, as i have some very rare stories i can quote from over 120 years back.

Rare diaries written in Pitmatic.

But (Not red arroond yit) (Ye tell mair lees then a collry pollis) to me are Pitmatic terms.

Maggie and i are on about Pitmatic and i quoted a story written in Pitmatic.

Howweh man, ya standing there like a broken pair of limbars is another Pitmatik saying

Pitmatically written, mind theres a cracking word (Pitmatically) it should be " Ya stanin theere like a pair of broken limmars)

So hopefully we can see what Maggie and i are "Taakin abbot) here now.

Now, to put it a little more simpler, even using Pitmatic words can be slightly differently spelt.

However, getting back, do you think that Pitmatic and Northumbrian may have got mixed a little ?

Thats a good question, but Wilma, your Pitmatic is sadly Pitmatic terms. Can you see where i am coming from here now.

Mind you Wilma " I hev redd mene a cannch" Maybe just like you.

Crallin alang the langwall i had many a middin to work on. But mind you "Many wor lyke a pallis"

I hope this clears it up now, and lets get on with (waat) Maggie is askin (aboot)

cheers all its a pleasure to be involved on History Hollow and love what i read always and the debates are always interesting.

Edited March 8, 2013 by johndawsonjune1955

[johndawsonjune1955]

Is it, or was it a term of abuse.

Robson Green has done a programme on the Pitmen Painters and maybe he could do a follow up on the subject of the language.

The play is being produced again I believe.

A friend of mine goes fishing with Robson.

I will be drinking with him saturday and ask him to have a word about it

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Aye John,in the pit communities,it was in the streets and pubs etc,where pitmatic was spoken,it was always funny hearing the older pitmen's wives gassing in the street...using pit terms when referring to whatever the subject was...."ye knaa wat,aav nivvor been owa thi plate-ends aal day..."!!

Seeing your point of view,John,it is a mix,and a gud aad mix at that heh heh!

A think this site,and aal hoo tek part are great,and really fascinating.

Aalwis gud ti be able ti put a point owa,withoot anybody getting abusive,like sum sites aav visited,

Flickr is a gud community site also.

[johndawsonjune1955]

your right Wilma. There are some sites you get are abusive, but to be fair on here we just plod on nicely and we debate a little. The best way i thnk.

Your a diamond mate and a pleassure to read what you have to offer the forum.

Keep your good work up, its the likes of all on here that i visit it and share with all.

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

John,aboot 40yeors ago,an aad deputy wus tellin me n thi lads a story aboot a "do" he had been ti,

[buffs..or Freemasons ...a think].

He got on aboot the way sum o' the blokes were dressed..."yi naa the way they cum in....two flat sheets,n a brekkin-off plank!"....[as he drew he's hand aroond he's chest,and then med a motion across he's adam's apple wi' he's forefinger.....referring ti a bib n dickie-bow tie....whey,he had me an' aal the lads in tears wi laughin',he had the expressions n actions...

A must say,that one was a new one ti me!

[johndawsonjune1955]

Certainly is that one. But a canny one.

[johndawsonjune1955]

Heres a little something i come across for you lot to enjoy when i was browsing the Ashington Colliery magazines from mega years ago.

From my records of Ashington Colliery canteen gossip I extract this example of the miners spontaneous wit.

Two men were having a friendly argument about football, a perennial bait-time topic. One of them remarked : "Whey man, ye hev nee brains†Whereupon his pal retorted: " Whaat d'ya knaa aboot brains ? Whey lad if all yor brains wor dynamite an' sumbody put a leet to it, it waddent blaa yor cap off !â€

Curious enough miners can make devastating observations like this about each other and still remain firm friends. In other circles there would be sulks.

At the time the pits were working irregular and there was some hardship in the town, but in fair weather or foul the pitman never loses his sense of humour.

Men were talking in the canteen about how fine it was when the pits worked a full week. One cheerful soul said: "Whey ay, wor lass hes ivr'ything in pawn, an', by lad, Aa hope shes able te get the puddin cloots oot!!

Then there was the counter-lad who managed the romantic part of his life by careful reference to the state of his finances, which in those days were always uncertain and precarious among young miners.

He was asked: "Are ye gannin' wi the syem lass ?†and he replied, "Ay, Aa'm gan wi' hor this week, but Aa'll hev te differ wi' hor on Saturday.†Pressed for an exclamation he replied blandly: "Whey man, it's hor borthday this weekend.â€

And the men behind the counter were keen business men. One of them admitted that when a customer asked for something to cure his heartburn he sold him a packet of chewing gum, then sold him a packet of cigarettes to bring on the heartbun again.

Also told in the canteen was the story of the friendly workman who met two shifters coming away from the coal face, and gave them a cheery "Good-morning gentleman.†They were astonished, and one, looking at the other asked "Did ye heor whaat he called us, Jack ?†Replied Jack, "Ay, Aa did, but Aa think he hesn't seen ye!â€

Ashington is not far from the Border beyond which men and women are reputed to be ultra-careful with the pennies. A canteen customer revealed the "canny†streak in him by expressing concern over the fact that although he did not take sugar in his tea he paid as much per cup as those who took the beverage sweetened.

He presented the canteen staff with a problem when he firmly demanded that each portion of sugar he did not get in his tea be wrapped up for him in a piece of paper so that he could take it home.

In the best regulated undertakings there are mishaps. A man asked at the counter for a ham sandwich, adding, " And divvent put the dish cloot in this time.†The canteen manager observed thoughtfully: "So that's were it went!â€

[Maggie/915]

These are great examples of our shared humour.

Sometimes they get us into trouble.

Basically no offence intended.

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Heh heh! Took me some time ti catch up on this page,but aam sittin' here at 1-15am as usual,wi tears running doon me fyess wi laffin'!!

[Especially the sugar bit!]