Recent Events In Woolwich.

[Keith Scantlebury]

The terrible incident in Woolwich proves that nowhere is safe from these mindless acts of violence / terrorism. For those of you who think nothing like that could happen in Bedlington, our town has just remembered the victims of a multi murder 100 years ago and let's not forget the events that caused Rothbury to be put on the world's stage by the media a few years ago.

Practicing Muslims forbid the use of alchohol and pork products. Those of them who own corner shops do not seem to object to stocking and selling us a case of beer, a bottle of wine / spirits , a tin of ham or a pack of bacon. It is also worth remembering, ASDA, TESCO, CO-OP, MORRISONS, among others, sell these products.

Am I wrong in suggesting we boycot a shop which is run by someone who conveniently hides behind the banner of Islam when it suits them, then on the other hand does not think twice in supplying us with goods that their religion forbids them to have anthing to do with.? I dont think I am being unfair by suggesting we should avoid muslim owned shops in favour of supermarkets or our high street / corner shops owned by non Muslims. Not all Asian shop owners are Muslim, ( I must point out )

I am not being racist, I just think it is wrong to be sold products by someone who regards those products as flith and poison in order to make money from us. Feelings are running high in the aftermath of what has just happened to that poor soldier in South east London and I would not condone the mass beating of all muslims because of who they are, after all we did not go round knocking 10 bells out of every Irishman every time a soldier was shot at the height of the troubles in Ireland.

People are calling on the government ( ha ha ) to take a hard stance against terrorist and muslim activists who are in this country purely to make our lives a misery. In many cases we do not know who these terrorists are UNTIL, they have commited an act of terrorism.

Why make it easy for them.

[Symptoms]

Of course, boycotting businesses run by minority groups isn't a new concept. If we cast our minds back to1933 we see an orchestrated campaign against Jewish businesses, first by boycott then, via various terror stages, to the camps.

Those stupid fools who inhabit the extreme Right, the EDL and similar fellow travellers, need no excuse (or encouragement) to chuck bricks through Mosque windows or even terrorise Asian shopkeepers. Is some Fascist really going to go into a corner shop and ask the guy behind the counter if he's a Muslim, a Sikh, a Hindu, a Buddist, a Christian (yep, there are Asian Christians) before the windows get smashed or worse?

The notion that the Irish community weren't vilified as a result of the IRA campaign isn't accurate. I have a very clear memory of regular (daily) reports in both the London Evening Standard and the London Evening News (now defunct) of Irish folk being attacked in reprisals.

It is haraam for a Muslim to sell pork and booze but that sin is between him/her and Allah surely?

Point of note: The attack yesterday is about 200 yards from the King's Head pub ... the one blown-up in 1974 by the IRA. I used to drive along the road (Artillery Place) where the attack took place every morning on my way to work.

[threegee]

Where are the "opinion formers" and the "social engineers" who shouted-down and ridiculed Enoch now? We've always been a tolerant nation to all-comers, and long may that remain so on an easily manageable scale. But - like many others - I strongly suspect that the most recent madness was a cynical ploy by Tony Blair to counter the falling support for his party by introducing people into the UK who had no idea of our history, and no clue as to the blind alleys where Labour has taken us in the past. The medium and long term problems were completely disregarded, in exactly the same was as the medium and long-term problems induced by Brown's economic lunacy. Votes for Labour at any cost to the nation!

[mickypotts]

The 2 Swine that bombed Boston recently in the so called name of Allah turns out that the older one was a murdering drug dealer way before the marathon event occured, so the 2 in woolich may be of the same Ilk using religon to cause mayhem, shame that the cops were not able to send them back to Allah

[threegee]

It is haraam for a Muslim to sell pork and booze but that sin is between him/her and Allah surely?...

I suggest you listen to this program, particularly the bit about the 75% of Muslim women who have been conned into believing that they are married and have married women's rights under law! What nation condones a parallel legal system to its national law - basically an opt-out? If you want to live in this country you live by OUR standards, speak OUR language, and you obey OUR law!

[Stephen]

The terrible incident in Woolwich proves that nowhere is safe from these mindless acts of violence / terrorism. For those of you who think nothing like that could happen in Bedlington, our town has just remembered the victims of a multi murder 100 years ago and let's not forget the events that caused Rothbury to be put on the world's stage by the media a few years ago.

Practicing Muslims forbid the use of alchohol and pork products. Those of them who own corner shops do not seem to object to stocking and selling us a case of beer, a bottle of wine / spirits , a tin of ham or a pack of bacon. It is also worth remembering, ASDA, TESCO, CO-OP, MORRISONS, among others, sell these products.

Am I wrong in suggesting we boycot a shop which is run by someone who conveniently hides behind the banner of Islam when it suits them, then on the other hand does not think twice in supplying us with goods that their religion forbids them to have anthing to do with.? I dont think I am being unfair by suggesting we should avoid muslim owned shops in favour of supermarkets or our high street / corner shops owned by non Muslims. Not all Asian shop owners are Muslim, ( I must point out )

I am not being racist, I just think it is wrong to be sold products by someone who regards those products as flith and poison in order to make money from us. Feelings are running high in the aftermath of what has just happened to that poor soldier in South east London and I would not condone the mass beating of all muslims because of who they are, after all we did not go round knocking 10 bells out of every Irishman every time a soldier was shot at the height of the troubles in Ireland.

People are calling on the government ( ha ha ) to take a hard stance against terrorist and muslim activists who are in this country purely to make our lives a misery. In many cases we do not know who these terrorists are UNTIL, they have commited an act of terrorism.

Why make it easy for them.

Should we also boycott any Chemist selling condoms if the owner is a Catholic? I would rather that people wouldn't try to force their own religious views on their customers. Also I've legally bought and drunk alcohol in many Muslim countries.

[Maggie/915]

Yesterday we went to see 'The Reluctant Fundamentalist'.

We saw the film before the events in London became news.

Very very thought provoking.

Sometimes an action provokes and then innocent people suffer.

Who gains when we divide into secular groups and make rash generalisations.

We are one World,

Money, power and greed, can encourage stupid people to behave badly.

[Malcolm Robinson]

No... step too far!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psZBaJU_Cvo

[keith lockey]

Keith, I know this is a time-bomb waiting to go off and after looking at the Luton video put up by Malcolm I am really shocked at how certain Muslims regard non-believers. But with regards to boycotting 'corner shops' for the reasons you gave. I wouldn't dream of doing such an act, especially when you say we should go to the supermarkets instead. Especially when those same supermarkets were selling the populace horsemeat not so long ago! Did anyone advocate boycotting those? And also, we have a supermarket in Bedlington that is monopolysing the mainstreet, stopping other free trade from getting established. Surely we should be boycotting that for that one simple democratic flaw. The killing of that drummer is going to have wide repercussions but it is like I said elsewhere, there is good and bad in all colours and creeds, let's not start penalising the good guys along with the bad guys. that way madness lies.

Edited May 23, 2013 by keith lockey

[Cyril]

Well this act of murder and lets face that is what it was in my humble opinion should NOT have been televised as it was or sensationalised on the front pages of certain news papers, I am not saying its not news, to the contrary we should be informed, however lets bear a thought for the family of this young man and how would the editors of the media feel if god forbid it was a their son or daughter, no I feel so repulsed and so sorry for the family/friends of this young man.

I think we the nation should have a refferendum on the return of capital punishment for murders, rapists, child molestors, peadophiles etc where the accused are proven guilty, in this day and age evidence is a lot easier to get through dna etc than it was decades ago. It may not deter the miguided brainless individuals who perpetrated this grotesque act of murder but it may make others think twice and save lives or the futures of those affected by the actions of others.

[Cyril]

The terrible incident in Woolwich proves that nowhere is safe from these mindless acts of violence / terrorism. For those of you who think nothing like that could happen in Bedlington, our town has just remembered the victims of a multi murder 100 years ago and let's not forget the events that caused Rothbury to be put on the world's stage by the media a few years ago.

Practicing Muslims forbid the use of alchohol and pork products. Those of them who own corner shops do not seem to object to stocking and selling us a case of beer, a bottle of wine / spirits , a tin of ham or a pack of bacon. It is also worth remembering, ASDA, TESCO, CO-OP, MORRISONS, among others, sell these products.

Am I wrong in suggesting we boycot a shop which is run by someone who conveniently hides behind the banner of Islam when it suits them, then on the other hand does not think twice in supplying us with goods that their religion forbids them to have anthing to do with.? I dont think I am being unfair by suggesting we should avoid muslim owned shops in favour of supermarkets or our high street / corner shops owned by non Muslims. Not all Asian shop owners are Muslim, ( I must point out )

I am not being racist, I just think it is wrong to be sold products by someone who regards those products as flith and poison in order to make money from us. Feelings are running high in the aftermath of what has just happened to that poor soldier in South east London and I would not condone the mass beating of all muslims because of who they are, after all we did not go round knocking 10 bells out of every Irishman every time a soldier was shot at the height of the troubles in Ireland.

People are calling on the government ( ha ha ) to take a hard stance against terrorist and muslim activists who are in this country purely to make our lives a misery. In many cases we do not know who these terrorists are UNTIL, they have commited an act of terrorism.

Why make it easy for them.

Most places sell alcohol and fags I detest the smell of smoke and I drink alcohol only on a Saturday night but if I stopped using places that sell these products where would that leave me? No disrespect Keith because I find your post are mainly very good and I enjoy reading them but on this occassion I dissagree 100%.

[Keith Scantlebury]

Keith, I know this is a time-bomb waiting to go off and after looking at the Luton video put up by Malcolm I am really shocked at how certain Muslims regard non-believers. But with regards to boycotting 'corner shops' for the reasons you gave. I wouldn't dream of doing such an act, especially when you say we should go to the supermarkets instead. Especially when those same supermarkets were selling the populace horsemeat not so long ago! Did anyone advocate boycotting those? And also, we have a supermarket in Bedlington that is monopolysing the mainstreet, stopping other free trade from getting established. Surely we should be boycotting that for that one simple democratic flaw. The killing of that drummer is going to have wide repercussions but it is like I said elsewhere, there is good and bad in all colours and creeds, let's not start penalising the good guys along with the bad guys. that way madness lies.

I did point out that there are other high street / corner shops owned by non Muslims . I also think that we should regain control of our own country. Close the gates to immigrants before we are swallowed up completely, the indigenous population is fast becoming the minority in our own front room. Why should we pussy - foot arround foreigners who come to this country with the sole aim of leaching off us, with a total disregard to our laws and traditions.There is good and bad in every nation / religion / race. Whenever I have visited other countries I have always tried to fit in , albeit for a short time. A lot of these people have no intention of changing their ways not even to learn our language even though they intend to spend their lives here. The terrible events in Woolwich have done absolutely no favours in so far as quelling any bad feeling towards the Muslim people ( no doubt there are many good Muslims). The Australian PM has, it seems, got it right, she has the support of her countrymen and the immigrants know where they stand, "Fit in or ship out ".

As I once said in an earlier post on another thread, I took the concrete barriers in to barricade off the bus that was blown up in the 7/7 bombings. It was not a pretty sight even after most of the bodies were removed ( there were still one or two in sittu). The Muslim bombers got their wish, which also meant they could not be tried and punished by our courts. After seeing the wreck of that bus, the personal belongings of the victims strewn about and the blood that was spilled, I make no apologies for leaning towards the feelings of mistrust where these people are involved.

Oh, and Symptoms, I also know the area quite well, I would use the south circular after leaving or going to the free ferry. I would look across the barracks and think about my Dad as he was stationed there before being shipped out to India in 1941 as a 17 year old soldier (he lied about his age to join up, Royal Artillery). There was a time or two that the ferry operators had to park us up over night in the hgv waiting lanes when the boats have had to be tied up for the night (not very often that happens) and we would have a night out locally.

[keith lockey]

I understand your feelings, mate, and I know this Woolwich affair is going to turn many peoples opinions about the above topics. Stay cool.

[Maggie/915]

I wonder what our DNA would show!

I think we are all one, regardless of colour or creed!

The extreme element on any side scare me.

[Maggie/915]

Worth thinking about :-

Football supporters.

Devolution.

Where do wars start?

Even Shakespeare with Romeo and Juliet gives us an example.

People with extreme views could be said to divide and rule.

Judge people with care, we are lucky we live in a tolerant society.

The English Civil War divided everyone and the result was to bring back the monarchy

[mercuryg]

I think it's time to reflect on the fact that these two men were extremists; the majority of muslims are decent law-abiding people. tarring all with the same brush is wrong, as would be boycotting muslim-run shops. I can understand people mistrusting muslims as they have been the perpetrators o some heinous crimes - after all my mother still detests the Germans and the Japanese - but there is a danger of over-reaction when such vicious attacks come to light. let's take a step back, and consider that the Islamic Council roundly condemned the incident yesterday.

[Adam Hogg]

I'm not going to enter a debate on this as this is not something WE should be debating I think that should be left to Parliament, I would just say to the people who support this act that happened in Woolwich. Shame on you and if you don't like it here, nobody is keeping you here, leave and don't come back. I would also like to add my sincere condolences to the family and friends for the young serviceman Drummer Lee Rigby who was killed, this should NEVER have happened and should NEVER happen again.

[Cyril]

I think it's time to reflect on the fact that these two men were extremists; the majority of muslims are decent law-abiding people. tarring all with the same brush is wrong, as would be boycotting muslim-run shops. I can understand people mistrusting muslims as they have been the perpetrators o some heinous crimes - after all my mother still detests the Germans and the Japanese - but there is a danger of over-reaction when such vicious attacks come to light. let's take a step back, and consider that the Islamic Council roundly condemned the incident yesterday.

Well said..... we live in a multi cultural society and its how its going to be regardless of how individuals feel.

If it was,nt for doctors and nurses etc who are all ethenticitys were would the health service be, or would you refuse a muslim doctor from treating a member of your family or even saving a life ?

I dont have a problem with ANYONE coming to this country as long as there here to pay their way.

Lets face it some of our former big industrials are now owned by foreign companies, SOME are even owned by muslims do we refuse to work for them?

I deal with people from all corners of the world living and working here in the UK do I refuse their money because of the colour of the skin or indeed religious beliefs I think not.

And yes there have been some attrocities all over the world but not all commited by muslims, we as a country are not innocent of such horrendous acts as history shows.

This young man was MURDERED in cold blood by fanatics who took things to the extreme.

[Symptoms]

Merc, well said!

As a veteran of the Battle of Catford Bridge, The Battle of Welling, and many others in London where our forces of the righteous Left resisted the hateful BNP I can, on viewing that video, just as easily transpose that scum of the 1970s & 80s into behaving in a similar way to those in the recent film. The message might be different but the sentiments are similar ... intolerence. Oh, an it struck me that the film's presenter had an agenda ... to prove that all Muslims are intolerent; I know that there were other demos she could have filmed that showed 'TOLERENT' Muslims.

[mercuryg]

There is a worrying underlying trend in the media to highlight acts of muslim extremism; of course, where it is the core of an incident such as this it needs to be part of the story, but the vein portrayed is that of 'Islam is evil'; it's not, it's no more evil that Christianity, for example. I have been appalled - and still am - at some of the comments on my Facebook news feed and other social networking sites. It appears to me that many people lose control of their intelligence when faced with stuff like this (and all respect to those on here, I am not talking about you!) I even resorted to telling a long time friend of mine to go elsewhere in the pub last night, such was his misguided and uninformed rhetoric. Why this outpouring of hatred towards an entire race/religion? Are we condemning every white person after the murder of that little girl recently? Or any other murders committed by non-muslims? Have we, just over half a century later, already forgotten what happened to the Jews under the Nazis? What needs to happen is that the tolerant, sensible muslims who practice a religion based on peace, rather than those who go to the extremes of suppression. need to speak out, stand up, and we - or rather the government and powers that be - need to get fully behind them. As the adage says, birds of a feather flock together: a truly smooth multi-cultural society is unlikely ever to exist - there will always be those who harbour resentment, historical or racial - but we are, in fact, doing a pretty good job. Before I sign off, a couple of things: someone condemned the entire Muslim race to my face last night as perverts who sleep with 12 year old girls. In their own countries they may do, and it may be legal. He was, I might add, very surprised to be told that, in Spain - for example - the age of consent is 13. Also, the famous Enoch Powell 'Rivers of Blood' speech is being touted as an 'I told you so' item:it's nothing of the sort. He wasn't talking of incidents like this, but warning of the formation of ghettos and the potential problems of excessive immigration. Anyone believing he declared the streets would become 'rivers of blood' because of these has clearly not read or heard the speech, or is ignorant. My tolerance levels - usually very high - are at an all time low. Good day to you all, and enjoy The Big Event!

[Symptoms]

Place - East London Mosque (biggest in Europe) with 6000 in attendance a couple of days after the attack ... the Imam absolutely condemning the attack and all forms violent and unlawful protest. Oh, and in a sign of ecumenical support, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddists and Christians were in attendance. Let's repeat - it's only a tiny minority of intolerant scum that cause problems, the vast majority are law-abiding, peace-loving and our valued neighbours.

GGG wrote: "If you want to live in this country you live by OUR standards, speak OUR language, and you obey OUR law!" And I agree!

Edited May 25, 2013 by Symptoms

[threegee]

Which Muslin country is this where it's legal to "sleep with 12 year old girls"? In a significant number of Muslim countries sex is illegal unless you are married, and most have more or less the same age of consent as we do! Spain wasn't a Muslim country the last time I was there, and standards in the Mediterranean countries are markedly different to the UK. For instance although the age of consent in Italy is 14, Silvio Berlusconi is being prosecuted for having paid-for sex with an under 18 year-old (he denies this, and she's just told a court she lied about the payment and a fair bit else) - his alleged crime is regarded as a very serious matter. If this is being offered as an excuse for this behaviour then it doesn't wash!

By any rational standards Enoch was right. Our 'betters' opened the floodgates to immigration and the consequences are as predicted. Whether this was a deliberate ploy by Labour's champaign socialists to garner votes, or just utter incompetence is the only matter still at issue (I lean to the belief that it was a bit of both). Enoch was a history scholar, and was very aware that in the entire history of mankind an attempted "multicultural society" had never produced other than a bloody result. For any society to function properly everyone must subscribe to the same set of common values. Only in an enlightened society does this set of common values transcend race and religion. But, when you have a significant section of society who won't even accept the law of the land, and seek to subvert or ignore it, then that's where tolerance should firmly end.

The problem is seldom the first generation of immigrants - they are grateful that they've been accepted and are able and willing to adapt to their new host culture - it's when subsequent generations become radicalised, well beyond the time horizon (and active political careers) of our "social engineers", that the problems surface.

There is plenty in Islam that extremists can latch onto to to justify what we are experiencing, and it's up to followers of this religion to sort this out - it should be their problem not ours! Saying that it's just a small minority really isn't good enough. The entire Muslim community needs to get its act together, not just in condemning this behaviour, but thoroughly isolating the radicals that preach hate, and if necessary, set up their own religious hierarchy which doesn't take its interpretation of the Koran from evil men in foreign lands.

For our part we need to put a hold on all further economic migrants for say twenty years, or until it's generally agreed we've properly integrated and de-ghettoised the communities we already have. Pulling out of (or seriously changing our relationship with) the EU has to be part of such a cure, else we are in for another dose of Social Engineering Sickness. The symptoms of SES also include, draconian restrictions on civil liberties, curtailment of traditional free speech, extremist reactionary groups, and loony lefties advocating that the cure is more exposure to the problem!

[Symptoms]

GGG wrote: "... The entire Muslim community needs to get its act together, not just in condemning this behaviour, but thoroughly isolating the radicals that preach hate, and if necessary, set up their own religious hierarchy which doesn't take it's interpretation of the Koran from evil men in foreign lands."

The Muslim community and their mainstream organisations ARE challenging the behaviour of that "small minority". Most Mosques teach tolerance AND integration, it's just that these places never get on the national telly news.

My description of the evil intolerent scum as "just a small minority" is just useful code and its use is good enough because it accurately describes their group size. Ditto ... intolerent extreme Left and extreme Right.

[mercuryg]

Which Muslin country is this where it's legal to "sleep with 12 year old girls"?

I didn't say it was, i said it may be. I have not researched the matter. It's worth remembering that, compared to Christianity for instance, Islam is a relatively 'young' religion. Up until medieval times - and perhaps later - it was not unusual in this country for a man to take a very young bride; it is only in quite recent times that the practice has been outlawed. My comment was meant with this historical relativity in mind.

[Brian Cross]

i dont understand how the muslim hate mongers are allowed to stay in the uk long after they have identified as preaching death and hatred to young muslims shouldn't they just be deported the same as any other alien ?