St Cuthbert ‘s 950 years ago

[Maggie/915]

12th December 1069.

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Hi Maggie!...lang time no read/see/ hear...from!

I was brought up at the Bedlington village infant's schyuul from 1949,and in the early days of starting there,the teacher took us across to the Church,to learn about the history of how it all began there.

We kids were too young to know aboot the Anglo-Saxons,but persistent teaching throughout every class,and on to the Whitley schyuul,ensured that the St Cuthbert's Church history,and also that of Bedlington Village,was firmly embedded in our minds!

We learned all aboot the Chancel Arch being the only remaining Saxon -constructed part of the building,the ancient Font, the Leper's Window, the Gothic Wing,the Norman's influence...

Noo, many yeors later,a hev a very well-read Son,who adamantly educates me into the history of the Anglo-Saxons,saying they never ever set foot up this part of the Country!

Aav argued the point that we were taught from five years old about the history of this lovely old Church..[  Watson's Wake!...another one I forgot to mention!],and it is gonna take some shifting ,to convince me that all me Teacher's,and History books were wrang!!

We had a discussion on this forum,a year or two back,regarding the origins of Bedlington and the Church,and it started off some disagreements when I said that we were taught that the land on which St Cuthbert's Church stands,was consecrated in the year 611 AD.

Do you know anything aboot that Maggie?...as a kid,I couldn't have made this information up!

Cheers! ...if I don't hear from you,[bad time of year when ivrybody is rushing aroond like madscabs getting ready for the festive season!],I hope you have a nice Christmas and a happy new year!

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

@HIGH PIT WILMA & @Maggie/915 - not that I have ever deleved into the history of St Cuthbert's but over the years I have Googled and turned up a few references and all the info I have seen has St Cuthberts s c12 centuary eg :- 

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1153497

https://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=50566

 

This is the front page of the document https://cofenewcastle.contentfiles.net/media/documents/document/2019/01/Bedlington_St_Cuthbert_-_January_2015.pdf

Edited December 18, 2019 by Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)

[Canny lass]

On 17/12/2019 at 21:49, HIGH PIT WILMA said:

We had a discussion on this forum,a year or two back,regarding the origins of Bedlington and the Church,and it started off some disagreements when I said that we were taught that the land on which St Cuthbert's Church stands,was consecrated in the year 611 AD.

My school memories are that the monks rested for one night IN the church at Bedlington during their escape from Lindisfarne in 875 Rightly or wronly, I've also believed that the church in question was St Cuthberts, albeit an earlier version of the present. I’ve also always believed that the flight from Lindisfarne ended up at Durham in 995, the monks having taken the long way round via Chester-le-Street and Ripon. No GPS in those days evidently!  

I was, therefore, somewhat surprised to see, on reading Maggie’s brochure, that the relics had been in Bedlington in 1069, some 74 years after reaching their final resting place in Durham! This prompted a bit of revision on my part.

It's not at all impossible that the ground upon which St Cuthbert's stands was concsecrated much earlier. Generally we tend to think of christianity as having arrived in Britain with the mass conversions of the sixth century. Such conversions in Northumbria are recorded by Bede. However, there's good proof in Northumberland that christianity was being practised in the roman fort at Housteads a couple of centuries prior to this , as a place of christian worship is built into the fort.

Then there's the work of John Hodgson A History of Northumberland in Three Parts. Hodgson

 

[Canny lass]

continued from above:

Then there's the work of John Hodgson, A History of Northumberland in Three Parts. Hodgson notes that the parish of Bedlington had already been given to the see of Durham soon after the year 900. I may be wrong but, to my way of thinking, if there’s a parish, there’s very likely to be a priest and if there’s a priest there is likely to be a church.

Hodgson  says of Bedlington  that "there is little doubt that a church existed here prior to the Norman conquest. It continued a rectory, and in the patronage of the see of Durham till Bishop Farnham, about the year 1242, appropriated it to the prior and convent of Durham". Hodgson suggests that this may have happened in order to obtain financial backing for the improvements which started round about that time.

Looking at the publication posted by Eggy, St Cuthbert’s Church, An Archeological Assessment, July 2015, page 10 https://cofenewcastle.contentfiles.net/media/documents/document/2019/01/Bedlington_St_Cuthbert_-_January_2015.pdf

I see that even today there is a carved stone, previously situated on the eastern side of the nave and outside, which is now built into the internal face of the west wall to prevent further damage. This stone is dated to the 10^th century while the earliest parts of the present church are from the 12^th century. This seems to indicate that something has stood there prior to the present building. Who knows how long the ground may have been in use for religious purposes.

[Canny lass]

On 15/12/2019 at 23:17, Maggie/915 said:

12th December 1069.

That's an interesting brochure, Maggie! At first I thought it must be a printing mistake. Surely the relics of Cuthbert couldn't have been in Bedlington in 1069!  They left Lindisfarne in 875, were nicely tucked up in Chester-le-Street in 883 and had found a permanent resting place in Durham by 995.  A bit of digging showed that the relics did indeed leave Durham 1069-1070 when they were returned to Lindisfarne for a short period of time to escape the Norman invasion. I never knew that! That visit must have been well documented as there is an actual date, unlike the visit en route to Chester-le-Street.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Canny lass

[Maggie/915]

I think there was a church of some description before 1069. . The site is important . The Golden age of Northumberland and the rise of Christianity had many people believing and then going back to pagan ways .

1069 was the monks fleeing from the Normans. I believe the history of Cuthbert’s body being here in Bedlington starts before that date. Hence they return to safety . The church site is on higher ground . The river is nearby we have a holy mount. ( ok Hollymount now). No one can disagree because no one really knows. Again Bedlington says to me Bede town in honour of The Venersble Bede. Various vicars make reference to a time before 1069..  The service was by candlelight and in Latin . Very atmospheric .The ancestors have all left their mark in making the place special regardless of belief. ‘Honour those that went before us. There is a group called Show of Hands and they do a track called All Hallows’ Eve. Basically you light the lantern at your door and honour those that went before on Halloween . A better use of time than trick or treat and scaring your neighbours. Just go for the chocolate to remember.                 
Being back in the Shire life gets busy. Even managed to get to the Gallowgate end to watch the Toon  play the Palace..

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Heh heh! Great interesting discussion, ye two bonny lassies!

The only bits aa remember wat was ingrained into us were the 611 AD consecration,and the sleepover of King John at thi Old Hall Tower

at thi Market Place,before the signing of thi Magna Carta.

When I was a kid,aa coudn't stand History lessons,cos a didn't see thi need for it...a wud rather be fiddling on wi me Electricity experiments in me Mutha's wesh-hoose....[at 12- yeor aad!].

Noo,aam fascinated by History,fortunately we hae thi technology nooadays,ti larn of those who are more edicated...like ye two bonny lassies!! Heh heh!

 

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

On 23/12/2019 at 18:16, Maggie/915 said:

I think there was a church of some description before 1069. . The site is important . The Golden age of Northumberland and the rise of Christianity had many people believing and then going back to pagan ways .

1069 was the monks fleeing from the Normans. I believe the history of Cuthbert’s body being here in Bedlington starts before that date. Hence they return to safety . The church site is on higher ground . The river is nearby we have a holy mount. ( ok Hollymount now). No one can disagree because no one really knows. Again Bedlington says to me Bede town in honour of The Venersble Bede. Various vicars make reference to a time before 1069..  The service was by candlelight and in Latin . Very atmospheric .The ancestors have all left their mark in making the place special regardless of belief. ‘Honour those that went before us. There is a group called Show of Hands and they do a track called All Hallows’ Eve. Basically you light the lantern at your door and honour those that went before on Halloween . A better use of time than trick or treat and scaring your neighbours. Just go for the chocolate to remember.                 
Being back in the Shire life gets busy. Even managed to get to the Gallowgate end to watch the Toon  play the Palace..

@Canny lass - I wonder if @Maggie/915 has any more info?

[Canny lass]

Thanks Eggy! It was one of Maggie's earlier posts that got me thinking about this. I planned to research it then but, as you know, other things got in the way and there hasn't been either time or opportunity do anything about it. However, we are now back to eight wheels and two drivers so I thought I might start now. Language development is a fantastic mirror of history, så it's worth looking at it from the linguistic aspect. While holly and holy are very similar in spelling and, to an extent, sound today, this has not always been the case so  the development of both national language and dialect need to be looked at. It'll probably take a couple of months, depending on how far back I can go. I'll keep you informed. Meanwhile, I'm still looking for an earlier, proven, use of the place name Hollymount if anybody can help.