Oldgate Row Bebside Furnace

[loopylou]

Hi,

My ancestor’s lived at this location in the 1911 census. I have tried searching  it up but not found much information about it. Does anyone know more specifically where it was located? I would assume south of the Bank Top across the river, possibly? A burial record I’ve located also refers to it as just “Oldgate”, no Row.

Thank you 🙂

[Canny lass]

Here it is, arrowed in red.

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

@Canny lass - I remeber you did a lot of research into the Furnace/Bebside area and was it Old gate Row, along with another row, that was at the top of the Hairpin Bend. If that's the one then we have a photo, looking up from the Furnace bridge area showing the two rows. 

[Canny lass]

At the top of the hairpin bend was Gatehouse Row. It later became Doctors Row.

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

31 minutes ago, Canny lass said:

At the top of the hairpin bend was Gatehouse Row. It later became Doctors Row.

So at the top left this is Gatehouse/Doctors  Row ? :-

And I joined two photos together (using the railway line asa guidline) to show the area east of the Furnace bridge and will Old Gate Row be the row on the right hand photo ie the row closest to the house that looks as if it is being demolished?

[Canny lass]

Ignore my last two posts! I might be confusing Old Gate Row with Old Factory Row. I’ll have to have a rummage in my old research notes.

[Canny lass]

Sorry about that! I started to doubt myself but now I can say that my posts were correct. You have got it right Eggy. Doctors Row in the first photo and Old Gate Row in the second photo. The building which "looks as if it is being demolished" is in fact the old gate house from which the street above got its name. There used to be five families living in that at one time.

 

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

@loopylouusing the info from @Canny lass this is a then and now of the area.

[loopylou]

@Canny lass thank you very much for your research 🙂 @Alan Edgar (Eggy1948) thank you for the maps and image comparison

I didn’t think that I would be able to see a photo of Oldgate Row (or that any existed) so this is a great help. My ancestors lived there for a few years 1908-1911 then (John Rooney) died so from there they were scattered around the Bank Top & Furnace area. A lot of the rows (Back, Brick & Stone) and then Craigs/Craggs Blgs. I have info about the other places but Oldgate was always the outlier 😁

Edited Thursday at 11:46 by loopylou

[Canny lass]

John Rooney had some of my relatives as neighbours!

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

2 hours ago, loopylou said:

@Canny lass thank you very much for your research 🙂 @Alan Edgar (Eggy1948) thank you for the maps and image comparison

I didn’t think that I would be able to see a photo of Oldgate Row (or that any existed) so this is a great help. My ancestors lived there for a few years 1908-1911 then (John Rooney) died so from there they were scattered around the Bank Top & Furnace area. A lot of the rows (Back, Brick & Stone) and then Craigs/Craggs Blgs. I have info about the other places but Oldgate was always the outlier 😁

5 minutes ago, Canny lass said:

John Rooney had some of my relatives as neighbours!

 

@Canny lass if I am on the right wave length was Joe Rooney, ex Banktop moved to Australia, a member of this group and he posted lots of info in History Hollow on the area and the families around the Banktop?

[loopylou]

47 minutes ago, Canny lass said:

John Rooney had some of my relatives as neighbours!

Wow, what a small world! 😁

[Canny lass]

2 hours ago, Alan Edgar (Eggy1948) said:

 if I am on the right wave length was Joe Rooney, ex Banktop moved to Australia,

Moved to Canada. Hasn't posted anything on here since 2010.

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

1 hour ago, Canny lass said:

Moved to Canada. Hasn't posted anything on here since 2010.

I joined the group in 2013 and I remember coming accross his comments on the housing and the families that lived at the Bank Top in the 1940's :-

 

 

 

[Canny lass]

Topic: Mary (molly) Rooney 1926-2008

It was the same Joe Rooney that posted the above topic in ‘Public Notices & Announcements’, December 8 2008, that I was referring to. He died in 2010.

April 2010 @sissinghurst posted 2 topics: 'Joe Rooney poorly' followed by 'Joe Rooney’s Passing'.

@loopylou the topic 'Mary (molly) Rooney 1926-2008' posted in ‘Public Notices & Announcements’
 might be of interest to you as Molly was born at 6 Craggs Buildings, Bank top which you mentioned in an earlier post. 
 

Edited Thursday at 19:00 by Canny lass

[loopylou]

@Canny lass thank you for the thread, I’d not noticed it before. I think the families must’ve swapped around quite often. Each time I see new census’ and records the building is the same but the door number has changed 😁.

Rooneys started living at Craig’s Bldgs by Aug 1914 at least, before that they were at Back Row in 1912 (according to school records of the youngest two sons; Joseph C b. 1900 and John Edward b. 1902 — and a death record for the infant son of eldest dau Margaret b.1888).
 

John’s wife Ellen was a next of kin for my relative in his WW1 record. This had her living at number 3. 

Edited Thursday at 19:41 by loopylou

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

@loopylou if you have been using the saerch facility on this group then there are a couple of points that we eventually stumbled on.If you put a phrse in the search box eg  - Bank Top Hotel - then the system returns you every comment that includes the word Bank or Top or Hotel. If you add quotation marks - "Bank Top Hotel" then you only get comments with the full phrase 'Bank Top Hotel'

If you enter a phrase within a category, eg. History Hollow, then the system only searches that category. If you select the 'Discussion' tab and then search then the system searches all the categories.

[Canny lass]

19 hours ago, loopylou said:

Each time I see new census’ and records the building is the same but the door number has changed 😁.

@loopylou You may be confusing schedule numbers with door numbers. There are very few door numbers in the census records before 1911 but there are always schedule numbers in the far left-hand column of the census returns. These numbers can and do change as they don’t refer to any building, only to the households within them.
The 1911 census was a bit different. You will find the schedule number in the top right hand corner of page 2 for each household - the part filled in by the householder. The correct address and house number (if there is one) you will find on page 1, filled in by the enumerator before he delivered the forms to the household. The address given by the householder on page 2 doesn't always agree with the address given by the enumerator. Everybody in the same street could call it by a different name.

AS for 3 Craggs Buildings at the Bank Top. From your fragment of paper it does look like John's wife was living there pre-WW1 but by 1921 it was her daughter Ellen who occupied that house together with her husband James Thompson and they were still there in 1939. You need to go a bit further along the road in 1921 to find John's wife Ellen at number 8 Craggs Buildings. She is then widowed and head of the household. Living in are son Bernard and his wife Rachel together with their 5 children. Still at home are sons Joseph C and John Edward.


 

 

 

[loopylou]

9 minutes ago, Canny lass said:

From your fragment of paper it does look like John's wife was living there pre-WW1 but by 1921 it was her daughter Ellen who occupied that house together with her husband James Thompson and they were still there in 1939. You need to go a bit further along the road in 1921 to find John's wife Ellen at number 8 Craggs Buildings. She is then widowed and head of the household. Living in are son Bernard and his wife Rachel together with their 5 children. Still at home are sons Joseph C and John Edward.

Sorry I don’t think I worded it right. Oh dear 😅. I did mean door numbers, not the schedule in censuses—I meant to infer that at some point in time the Rooneys seem to live at nearly every door number (3, 6, 8 etc) and the numbers are always changing because they switched houses that much.

It is quite interesting to see how everyone in such a small space was connected, because there was quite a lot! In 1939, No. 9 (Tweddle) & 10 (Bell) families connected to the Rooneys as the Tweddle’s adopted a grandaughter of Ellen Rooney. I think the Tweddle’s had been at Cragg’s since about 1914 too.

[loopylou]

@Alan Edgar (Eggy1948) thank you for the advice, very helpful. There’s a lot of stuff on here to look around at 😁

 

[Canny lass]

I see what you mean! They did move around a bit in those days. They sort of outgrew their living space and swapped with another family member with a smaller family.

[loopylou]

I don’t know if there are photos of Cragg’s Buildings out there, but there were some in the papers in 1943 after it was on fire. (No. 5, 6, 7 and 8).

[loopylou]

@Canny lass yes, no one ever seemed to stay in one place. 😄

[Canny lass]

That's the first picture I've ever seen. Hadn't heard about the fire either. Thanks!

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

1 hour ago, Canny lass said:

That's the first picture I've ever seen. Hadn't heard about the fire either. Thanks!

Not that my memory is brilliant these days but I do recall Joe Rooney mentioning the fire when he posted a comment about his older broter :-