Canny lass

This place is gold dust these days, love it.

When you say "this place" are you referring to the Red Lion or Bedlington.co.uk? If it's the latter I have to agree with you! It's like a good book which you just can't put down for a minute.

This could be a tough cookie to crack! According to the site mentioned earlier, www.englamdsnortheast.co.uk an important clue to the early settlement of Anglo-Saxons lies in the place names they left behind. The author claims that most of the place names in the north east region are Anglo-Saxon in their origin and mentions in particular that "almost all places ending in 'ton' or 'ham' are of Anglo-Saxon origin."That would suggest that Bedlington is Anglo-Saxon in origin.

However, looking at the ending -ton purely from an etymological angle there are other possibilities. English, German and Dutch together with all the Scandinavian languages belong to the same language family but have developed along two different paths, one toward the west and one toward the north. In all of these languages there has a been a word with a similar meaning to the ending -ton, as in Bedlington. England has been invaded many times and every invasion has left its mark on the English language.

If we trace the development of the word town, we find it started its journey meaning enclosure and went on to mean garden, then cluster of buildings on a piece of enclosed land, then farmstead, and finally a cluster of buildings (not necessarily enclosed). All these changes in meaning happened approximately, as far as researchers can demonstrate, between 700 -1100 AD, a period in the history of english language which we call Old English.

Where the word came from is difficult to pinpoint but in Old English the word was tun, as was also the word for town in Old Saxon, the forerunner of the present day German language. Old High German also had a word zun with the related meaning fence or hedge and Old Norse, the forerunner of the Scandinavian languages had tún. Just to complicate the matter the latter was thought possibly to have some relationship to the celtic word dun in placenames or even the welsh word din, meaning a fortified place.(Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology: OUP 1996)

So I think the best way to go is to find out who Bedla (?Bedel, ?Betla) was and where he originated from. I'm in London for a couple of days from tomorrow and if I get time I'll try and get into the library and see what I can find out.

Went into the British Library on Euston Road but wasn't allowed to even look at a book as I couldn't produce an electricity- or gas bill. This is perfectly true! To use the library I had to register. To register I had to produce one item from each of 2 lists. One Item containing my signature and one item containing my adress. I only had my passport to show my signature. Unfortunately I didn't have the required gas/electricity bill with me with which to prove my adress so I couldn't register. I tried to argue that my electricity bill would be of no use, as it wasn't in English, and was informed that "we have translators." What's Britain coming to? (I've now packed an electricity bill in anticipation of my next visit).

Not sure that's going to be old enough GGG?

Why not? It's certainly another possibility but I agree that much depends on just when the name first saw the light of day.

That brings back memories

Does indeed Pete!

The form of the Early-Medieval settlement at Bedlington is unknown. The name is of little help in establishing this, but it would certainly seem to be of Anglo-Saxon derivation, probably meaning the farmstead of Bedel or Betla (Mawer 1920, 15; Watson 1970, 160).

This could be a tough cookie to crack! According to the site mentioned earlier, www.englamdsnortheast.co.uk an important clue to the early settlement of Anglo-Saxons lies in the place names they left behind. The author claims that most of the place names in the north east region are Anglo-Saxon in their origin and mentions in particular that "almost all places ending in 'ton' or 'ham' are of Anglo-Saxon origin."That would suggest that Bedlington is Anglo-Saxon in origin.

However, looking at the ending -ton purely from an etymological angle there are other possibilities. English, German and Dutch together with all the Scandinavian languages belong to the same language family but have developed along two different paths, one toward the west and one toward the north. In all of these languages there has a been a word with a similar meaning to the ending -ton, as in Bedlington. England has been invaded many times and every invasion has left its mark on the English language.

If we trace the development of the word town, we find it started its journey meaning enclosure and went on to mean garden, then cluster of buildings on a piece of enclosed land, then farmstead, and finally a cluster of buildings (not necessarily enclosed). All these changes in meaning happened approximately, as far as researchers can demonstrate, between 700 -1100 AD, a period in the history of english language which we call Old English.

Where the word came from is difficult to pinpoint but in Old English the word was tun, as was also the word for town in Old Saxon, the forerunner of the present day German language. Old High German also had a word zun with the related meaning fence or hedge and Old Norse, the forerunner of the Scandinavian languages had tún. Just to complicate the matter the latter was thought possibly to have some relationship to the celtic word dun in placenames or even the welsh word din, meaning a fortified place.(Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology: OUP 1996)

So I think the best way to go is to find out who Bedla (?Bedel, ?Betla) was and where he originated from. I'm in London for a couple of days from tomorrow and if I get time I'll try and get into the library and see what I can find out.

Maybe Canny Lass can get us the definitive explanation.......if Sweden has public libraries?

We certainly do have public libraries but nowhere on the scale of Britain's library system. We are just a couple of million tax-payers keeping this long, oblong country solvent and moving! The network of roads needed to get people to the libraries devours a great deal of the taxes. I have a round-trip of 200 km to the nearest reference library of any quality. Mind you, should i choose to, I can take a taxi to the nearest bus stop for the same price as a bus ticket. The government is very kind!! Then we have a book bus! Comes once a month but you have to know what book you want so that they can have it on the bus. There's no way I can do a computer search on the bus and if it's a work of reference I'm after they can't supply it. I have to go into the library. Uni students have the priviledge of being able to log in to the system and search from home but once your studies are finished that priviledge is withdrawn. I've never understood why the system can't be open to everyone.

This is why I said it may take some time.

Grubbo and Twizle......anyone??????

There was a Twizle Farm Cottage just outside of Morpeth on the way to Stannington in the 60's but I think it was demolished when they built Searles factory. I found a mention of Twizle on one of the sites you pasted a link to (great site by the way):

"Other twisels in the north include Twizel near Berwick, Twizle near Morpeth and Twizell between Chester le Street and Stanley".

www.englandsnortheast.co.uk

www.englandsnortheast.co.uk/PlaceNameMeaningsEtoJ.html

Drew a blank on Grubbo though.

John, Malcolm, is it possible to have a down loadable version on here for people like me who no longer live in Bedlington?

What a good idea Pete!

Canny Lass, These went out in the 1800,s didn't they

They may well of done Merlin but Ganny Watson in Netherton (she who rewarded my services with a brass shovel when she ran out of sweets) still had one in the 1950's - and she still used ut. They made things to last in the 1800's!

I agree with the "tun†Canny Lass but I assume Bedlington gets its name from the chieftain Bedla, who I believe was 7^th century so your Norse influences would certainly apply.

It's an easy assumption that the area was one called Bedla's Tun, the enclosed area belonging to Bedla, and from there Bedl..ing..ton.

If we can get this 'nailed' (sorry couldn't resist given the topic title) I would like to include an explanation of the name in our Heritage project.

Thanks Malcolm. I'd like to know more about this chieftain Bedla. Can't find anything on the Internet except a mushroom and an Indian clan. Does he pop up in any literature? Was he British or Scandinavian? If he was Scandinavian then the chances are strong that a genitive 's' would have been included in the place name, as in Grimsby which literally means Grim's by (by = village in Swedish or town in Norwegian). The differing practices regarding the retention of the genitive ,s' in English and the Scandinavian languages can be demonstrated more clearly with surnames. The English language removes the genitive as in Peterson, Harryson, Johnson, meaning Peter's son, Harry's son and John's son. In the Scandinavian languages the genitive 's' is retained: Petersson, Harrysson, Johnsson.

I'll see what I can find out from the language faculty in Gothenburg next time I'm there. May take a while though.

I can remember another type of flat iron that wasn't heated on the hob. I think it may have been an earlier model. It was hollow but never the less heavy. There was an opening at the back end, by which you filled the iron with glowing coal, and a shutter that fell into a slot rather like the blade on a guillotine.

Nice to see you back Merlin!

Well, as I remember, it's in my historical atlas on a couple of distant dates (at least once as Belintun ?)

Interesting to read that the place name has previously been documented with the ending –tun! I've long suspected that the Geordie dialect stems from Old Norse and, according to the oracle (Wikipedia) 'ton' is usually a corruption of 'tun', which meant farm or hamlet. The oracle is probably right as tún, in icelandic means 'a fenced in piece of land around a dwelling´ (Isländsk/Svensk Ordbok Rabén Prisma 7^th edition 1994).

The language of Iceland, which has developed from Old Norse, has changed very little since Viking times as they strive to keep the language pure – free from infiltration by other languages and you would be amazed at the number of words from Old Norse that have found their way into the Geordie dialect. I believe therefore that the name Bedlington may have its roots in the old Norse language. In the Scandinavian languages place names very often reflect the surrounding nature. The name of my home, to take a simple example, is Nordlid which means 'north slope', and that's exactly what it is. I live high up on a hill which slopes down towards the north.

If we take the name Bedlington and break it down into syllables, the first syllable, bed-, could possibly be derived from an Icelandic word - beð, meaning a flowery meadow (the word lives on in English in flower bed). The second syllable, ling-, isn't too distant from the Icelandic word Lind, meaning Linden, the tree Tilea Europea. Try saying Bedlington quickly or the way most Bedlingtonians say it and the 'g' isn't heard at all. The g almost becomes a d –Bedlindton. The third syllable –ton is most certainly derived from tún, which, as I mentioned earlier means a fenced in piece of land around a dwelling. So Bedlington may well have started off as a solitary dwelling in a flowery meadow with Linden (lime) trees and developed into a settlement during the Viking period in Britain.

So why don't we all just settle for a number 69 with Fried Rice and an extra portion of Curry Sauce?

I'll pretend i haven't read that!

The reason why the xmas lights in the Station weren't switched on this year.......... THE CHIP SHOP IS CLOSED. Apparrently, the switch is in there and as the business is closed, no-one could get in to switch the lights on. I am sure if someone HAD RANG THE LETTING AGENT, they would have been only too happy to send someone with a key so the lights could be switched on and when the time comes, off. The agents phone number, oh aye, its printed on the TO LET sign above the shop. ......... its not rocket science

Who pays for the electricity Keith?

Thanks Canny Lass, I am glad that you understood it, Hope you had a good Christmas.

I'm afraid I can't claim to have understood the English translation any better than the original text!

Happy birthday Barton.

Say that again?

Highest standards of practicality friend excellent elegant fabric affordable reasonable price discount sale superlative Hackett acclaimed high court

High-heeled shoes clothing accessories shawl model top new trends peace hemp foot Hackett London 胭脂 everyone Tues æ´ç™½ popular vintage style fast density

Like this CL?

Exactly like that.

It could have been Santa's vapor trail .....

... or his reindeers ?

All I ask for is good health for my family and friends.

Couldn't have put it better myself Vic! Have a very merry Xmas everybody!

Post another one Keith, just to keep us going over the Xmas.

Like the cow's tail - last as usual. Hope it was a good one.

No, it's not just you Adam. I thought the same thing.

To this day my favourite sandwhich filling is fried pork sausage with Robertsons thick cut orange marmalade.

Sorry Canny Lass, no matter which way I look at that it just does not seem palatable. (Were you by any chance preggas at the time, cos I heard women have funny culinary tastes during that time.)

Definitely not preggas! I can remember eating these as a toddler. You must try it. It's lovely. One large slice buttered white bread. One fried pork sausage, hot or cold, cut in half length ways and placed on half the bread. Spread a dollop of orange marmelade on the other half and fold over. Enjoy!