Canny lass

Here's what I've been able to find out about the Croudace family mentioned here.

Dorothy Croudace, maiden name Swann, appears to have been born in 1840 while her husband, Thomas, a couple of years older was born in 1838. Their marriage was registered in Newcastle in the first quarter of 1959. Their son, Robert Swann, was born some months later around July/August 1859. There's no explanation as to why he was given his mother's surname. The name Robert, however, may have been given in memory of his maternal grandfather who died the same year. Just when this happened, I haven't been able to find out.

At the time of their marriage Thomas was 'of age', having had his 21^st birthday. He did not therefore require his parent's permission to marry. Dorothy, on the other hand was only 19 years old. This may have meant that Dorothy required parental consent to marry. I can't really make any sense of the information about the legal age for marriage at the time as the information available is often contradictory. From what I understand though, it was usual at that time for parents to act as witnesses and sign the marriage register. In the case of Dorothy and Thomas, however, the parent's names do not appear. The witnesses were James Nellis and Elenor Brooks.

It may well have been that Dorothy's parents were against the marriage or that they had already passed away.

Dorothy's lot was not an easy one but she clearly loved her family.

Sorry, should have said that their marriage was registered in the first quarter of 1859 - not 1959.

Thomas and Dorothy Croudace.

Bedlington Colliery

Here's what I've been able to find out about the Croudace family mentioned here.

Dorothy Croudace, maiden name Swann, appears to have been born in 1840 while her husband, Thomas, a couple of years older was born in 1838. Their marriage was registered in Newcastle in the first quarter of 1959. Their son, Robert Swann, was born some months later around July/August 1859. There's no explanation as to why he was given his mother's surname. The name Robert, however, may have been given in memory of his maternal grandfather who died the same year. Just when this happened, I haven't been able to find out.

At the time of their marriage Thomas was 'of age', having had his 21^st birthday. He did not therefore require his parent's permission to marry. Dorothy, on the other hand was only 19 years old. This may have meant that Dorothy required parental consent to marry. I can't really make any sense of the information about the legal age for marriage at the time as the information available is often contradictory. From what I understand though, it was usual at that time for parents to act as witnesses and sign the marriage register. In the case of Dorothy and Thomas, however, the parent's names do not appear. The witnesses were James Nellis and Elenor Brooks.

It may well have been that Dorothy's parents were against the marriage or that they had already passed away.

Dorothy's lot was not an easy one but she clearly loved her family.

Djingis Khan?

This gravestone is in the church yard at Saint Cuthbert's

Your post is brilliant Canny Lass.

You learn something new each day..

Pleased to be able to help Maggie. It might be possible to find the date of Death in the Church records.

My hubby thanks you for this. He Thinks it's very good and very time-saving.

Elizabeth Burdon wife of William

She seems like an amazing individual but i cannot read the date of death

This is a lovely one Maggie! You really feel that you get to know the woman rather than just a name. As you say, you can't read the date of death here but the language gives us a few clues.

First of all there is a widespread use of a letter that no longer exists in the English language. That's the letter that, at first glance, looks like the letter f. However, if you look closely, you will see that the 'cross piece' doesn't actually cross the upright. It is only attached to the left-hand side of the upright. It's known 'in the trade' as a long-s. I don't have access to it on the computer so I'll use an italic f ( f ) instead. If you look at the 'real' letter f in the words 'fewer', 'fall', and 'features', to mention just a few, you'll see the difference. Here the cross piece sits on the right of the upright.

On the grave stone you can see the long-s in the words :

faid (said)

pofsefsed (possessed)

ufually (usually)

fhare (share)

diftingui fhing(distinguishing)

senfe (sense)

excesfes (excesses)

pafsion (passion)

fentiment (sentiment)

fpirited (spirited)

impofsible (impossible)

pofsefsing (possessing)

reafon (reason)

lofs (loss)

thofe (those)

happinef s (happiness)

confumption (consumption)

No need to tell you that it is pronounced as an s. It was very common in certain combinations, particularly si, st and ss – the latter occurs very often here. Long-s was in common use in medial position, that's to say in the middle of words rather than at the beginning or the end, right up until the late 18^th century but disappeared completely in the early 19^th century. The Times was still using it up until 1803 but it's been found in a few printed materials as late as 1815. I think it was found even later in handwritten documents but certainly not after the first half of the century. Interesting here is that the stonemason is still using it at the beginning of some words. This is unusual after 1800.

Then there's the use of capital letters. As you know we use them to start sentences and for proper nouns but this hasn't always been the case. If you go back to the 10^th century they were hardly used at all. In the 18^th century, however there was an abundance of capital letters as almost every noun - proper or otherwise - was written with a capital letter. That's not the case on this gravestone so I think we've crossed the threshold into the 19^th century. The stonemason is actually very sparse in his use of capitals and most sentences begin with small letters which could be indicative of a desire on his part to keep up with the times but going a little bit OTT. The phenomenon is seen quite often in old texts.

Then there's the use of the word 'consumption'. Consumption is the old word for Tuberculosis and while the disease has been around for thousands of years the name Tuberculosis has not. The disease was discovered at the beginning of the 19^th century and was given its name sometime around the 1830s. Prior to that time it was called consumption.

From a linguistic point of view, I think we can safely say the stone was carved some time at the turn of the century, 1790 -1810 or thereabouts. Does anybody know when the cemetery at West Lea opened?

Actually Canny lass I wasn't really a cat person until I took two kittens off a guy who was mistreating them. One died having kittens and the other cost us a bomb at the vets because she had kittens at the same time as her sister and the cat rescue place wouldn't take the kittens until we proved we had the mother sterilised.

I have climbed roofs to get her back, I have climbed trees to get her back and I have chased foxes away who had made her climb the trees is the first place. She has been under more cars than enough and used up every one of her 9 lives. I drove 18hrs to use the Chunnel and get her and our dog back here and they both had to have their own passports with all the appropriate veterinary stamps.

It was a really pathetic sight in her last few days because she just stopped eating and lay down. The vet said it was just her time and that she had obviously had a better life than most.

Seemingly cats often do this just before the end?

Well, you obviously weren't a mouse in a former Life Malcolm! I was always a dog kind of person myself before I moved here, to a house in the forest over run with mice. Couldn't live without one (or two) now.

Thanks threegee, that's really useful information.

I like these humanist funerals. Couple of years ago I Went to the funeral of a gay friend. Shirley Bassey all the way! Everybody left the funeral happy and laughing. Just the way he Always was would have wanted us to be.

and now the font size is being its own boss

_{Still having bother with these fonts! Now I've got capital letters popping up everywhere!}

Hi Canny Lass, a few of us were getting worried when we hadn't heard from you for a while. Table 26 thought you had been abducted by aliens and we were going to launch a search and rescue mission. My sense of humour will always be there but it's taken a knock this year with three of my cats 'passing onto the other side', as they say. Good to hear from you again.

There are no Words that I can say that will take away the great pain you must be feeling right now. A couple of years ago I lost two 20-year olds within eight weeks of each other. it was a devestating experience. However, I had lots of Lovely memories as a result of having them so long. I'm sure you, and Malcolm, have too. Now's the time to get those memories out and look back on all the fun you've had laughing at their Antics. Think about those Cold Winter evenings when your cat has, more than willingly, supplemented the central heating without asking for anything in return. Think about how your cat was able to drape him/herself irresistably anywhere at all in order to get you to open the fridge door.Cats are just wonderful. Anybody who hates them must have been a mouse in a previous Life. Allow yourself the time to mourn your loss. It's not selfish and despite what some say, it isn't daft either. One day, when the pain has subsided, you'll suddenly realise that the time is right to invite Another cat into your home.

The programme was on BBC4 and was called King Alfred And The Anglo -Saxons.

Michael Wood presented.

There were only three programmes of one hour.

Hopefully it has gone to DVD.

Lots of programmes now are made in conjunction with the Open University.

I could maybe put the two episodes I have still on a digi box onto an old VHS tape for you.

Otherwise get yourself to Bedlington soon and I will leave them alone on the box.

Others on the site may know of better ways.

I cannot seem to find it on I Player.

Maybe it will be soon.

How much of the language of The Anglo - Saxon Chronicles is relevant to us here or to you and your many languages.

Sounds interesting. I'm afraid VHS is a no-goer in this household. I'll keep an eye out for it.

A case of

Bad Moon Rising

, as Creedence would say, and on the

BACKSIDE

,

Blue Moon

.

NASA will become

N

ew

A

*se

S

een

A

stronomically.

Haven't lost your sense of humour Keith, I'm pleased to see. What's happening on table 26 these Days? Haven't come across it yet but I've loads to wade through.

Yes canny lass It was a Fresh Fish Shop although I cannot say if it was the same family business selling from a van locally. Good to see your back on the Bedders website, Its been left to Eileen and the Maggie's to break the boredom of the Fella's . :)

Thanks Foxy. I had vague memories of being terrified to go past that shop at the age of 4-5 years, after having seen what appeared to me to be a monster languishing on the marble slab in the window. It was probably just a large catfish or something similar but I had nightmares about it for weeks and I've never eaten fish since. Nice to be back and I think Eileen and Maggie have been doing a very good job with you lot. Everything seems to be under Control at Bedders.

Canny Lass you will have to get the latest series 'King Alfred and the Anglo/ Saxons'

Where would I get it Maggie? Is it a TV series? If so I may get the translation job, if Swedish TV ever buys it. We can learn a great deal about our history from language. It's better than literature when it comes to reflecting our past. It never ceases to fascinate me.

Foxy, first Picture #32. Was Todd & sons a fresh fish shop and if so was it the Todd who used to sell fish from a van around the houses?

Lots of Miners found work in other coal fields.

Fair Point Maggie. Didn't think of that.

Found myself saying 'your a Mazer' today.

Wonder if it came from amazing or did our word come first?

OE (700-1100) verb amasod (past participle = amazed): in the beginning it meant to stun (now obsolete). Later it meant to bewilder and at some time in the 16th century took on the meaning to overwhelm with wonder. By the ME period amasod had changed it's form to amased. On the other hand, there was a word 'maze', with the meaning to stupefy or daze, which is dialectal but has been found in the English language since the 8th Century. At first it was only used in past-participles but it could have various prefixes, as in bimased and amased. By the 15th century its meaning had changed to 'bewilder'. Just when the derivative noun, 'mazer', came into being doesn't appear to be documented..(Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology) However, I wonder if it is 'our' word, Maggie. I worked at the Royal Infirmary in Doncaster a number of years and this word 'mazer' was in common use in the area, especially among older folks. Have you heard it in your area and if so has it the same meaning?

Definitely a YES from me! All-male sports clubs - especially golf - are a gift from the Almighty to the members of the female gender. I think it's so convenient to be able to drop off my other half at one of these establishments before going shopping or to the gym (mixed of course) and picking him up on the way home, safe in the knowledge that he's been playing a round and not playing around. Long may they live!! Funny how these all-male golf clubs usually have female bar-staff (except the manager, naturally) and cleaners. And no, I don't know why this is written in bold style, underlined italics!

I was a Mona Taylor baby as well back i 1956, my mam used to talk a lot about a midwife call Nurse Dunbar, it later became an old peoples home and changed its nam e to Thomas Taylors.

I Think Nurse Dunbar went on to become the 'dickie nurse' who visited schools in the Bedlington area. As I understood it Rothbury was used when Mona Taylor was fully booked.

Good to hear from you again Canny Lass!

Nice to be back Maggie. Right arm's a beggared now though. Off to bed.

The beast was a brick-built cube with an arched fireplace below and a chimney out the rear, let into the top was an enormous cast iron cauldron, maybe two feet in dia for boiling the clothes before they were to be mashed with a poss stick (or dolly).

We had these 'beasts' at Netherton colliery as well Symptoms. They were in the back yard against the 'scullery' wall (scullery, there's a lovely word!)and quite a few families had built a roof between the scullery and the outhouses, that's to say the coal house, netty (another lovely word) and shelter. I've no idea why it was called a shelter. Some people even built a wall, making the whole thing into an extra room/wash house, where the mistress of the household could do the washing even on the wettest of days. However, the beasts were not for possing. They were too high. Clothes were lifted out into the poss tub for possing. I remember an all wooden poss stick but I also remember the advent of the copper poss stick Anybody else remember them? A weird and wonderful contraption consisting of a wooden handle with a hollow copper bulb on the lower end. This had several holes in varying sizes which allowed it to fill with water, making it heavier while possing but lighter to remove from the poss tub. Oh these new-fangled gadgets! I wonder if it ever caught on? Could this be the 'Dolly posser'? After the coming of the washing machine the old pot-boiler (as the beast was called in my home) didn't become obsolete. It was still used on washing day to heat the water for the machine. I don't know if this was because the machine didn't heat the water or if it was merely good housekeeping - coal was free to miners, electricity was not.

Why the photos have been relegated to the loos I can not imagine!

Seaton Sluice and The Kings Arms, does anyone know why there are submarine pictures in the loos.

I heard many, many years ago that a submarine crew from the Blyth base were celebrating Xmas day in the pub, sometime in the early 40's. One of them won a bottle of whisky in a raffle but as he was about to go to sea he asked the landlord to keep it for him until he returned. Sadly he never returned, the sub was destroyed, but the bottle was kept for him and as far as I know it's still there today.