Cemetery Tales

[Maggie/915]

Two war graves

Lawson 1917 in the churchyard and Dodds 1943 Westlea Cemetry

[Maggie/915]

Thomas and Dorothy Croudace.

Bedlington Colliery

[Maggie/915]

Here is a puzzle!

Dorothy Croudice widow age 21 on the 1861 census, is the person this gravestone relates too.

The son was called Swann and lived at Hirst Head.

Child mortality certainly maybe Doeothy married again. Either way a connection.

Croudice were they the Chemists?

The Skipsey's family also have a Swann connection, it seems the last of the Bedlington Skipsey's married A Swann.

That sounds crazy but you know what I mean.

The Skipsey's farmed High House farm.

I think that may have been wherever the council stored vehicles

[Maggie/915]

Tulloch! An unusual name in Bedlington

[tonyg]

Another good one Maggie/ 915

[paul mann]

Remember playing in the old cemetery at West Lea. The old part was like a haunted forest, good for climbing trees and playing Robin Hood. Put my foot through a hornet's nest once in the 'semmie' and got chased all the way back across the fields only to find the back door locked. Taak aboot panic.

[Maggie/915]

We knew how to live!

Forget War Hammer and Costa Lotta!

[Maggie/915]

George Brown Churchwarden for 30 years

A good name for a future King born a few days ago

[Maggie/915]

This one is interesting and another name I have not heard in Bedlington.

Alfred Pick died 1918 flying in Kent

[mickypotts]

Hey Maggie, there was a Mr. Pick who lived on Vulcan place in the house next to the coffin chapel, he had a sister who would visit him quite often, they at one time were supposed to have owned the Chemist shop up at the crossing

[Maggie/915]

Must be the same family.

Interesting to be a pilot in World War 1

[johndawsonjune1955]

Its nice to know that old names are still used in naming house areas and roads etc. I think its good.

I live at Richard Ashley Close, names after the Newbiggin lifeboat, and we have Longrisge Drive on Barrington Road ? and many more.

Nice jesture. Hopefully may see more in Bedlington after Birkinshaw and Stephenson, etc my list can go on for ever, but it is happening.

Headstones can tell a good tale for us all, but i don't think they do nowadays.

Anyway, when i am gone i want no fuss, as long as i am with my wife in the end, together, for the family, that is all i want.

Sadly, how many headstones do we see now with only one person ? probably the other has married on, and its all forgooton about. Very sad indeed.

[Maggie/915]

Perhaps talk of death could be relevant here.

We saw a comedian who said 'if you were born in the sixties you should be planning your funeral now'

My music of choice would be a Santana number.

A friend wants 'I don't feel like dancing' Scissor Sisters.

[keith lockey]

I went to a humanist 'send off' at Blyth Crem' and when the coffin went behind the curtains they played the James Bond theme. I fell off my chair with laughter!!

[Canny lass]

I like these humanist funerals. Couple of years ago I Went to the funeral of a gay friend. Shirley Bassey all the way! Everybody left the funeral happy and laughing. Just the way he Always was would have wanted us to be.

[Symptoms]

Being a devout and practising atheist I think these Humanist bashes are the way to go out - I've been to a few recently and they were refreshingly upbeat affairs. The God bothering jobbies are so predictable by comparison.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Symptoms

[Orloff]

Mrs. Orloff was a Humanist Funeral Celebrant until she recently retired. I went to a few of her "gigs", they are very good. Once at the end of a "gig" a retired bishop who was a family friend of the deceased tottered up to Mrs Orloff on two sticks, rested his hand on her arm, leant right into her and said "THAT was wonderful," (always ready for the BUT) "but, I didn't like the music". So that was HIS only criticism.

[keith lockey]

Being a devout and practising atheist I think these Humanist bashes are the way to go out - I've been to a few recently and they were refreshingly upbeat affairs. The God bothering jobbies are so predictable by comparison.

Symptoms, have you seen the Athiest Experience on Youtube? It is well worth a look - for anyone. They operate out of Austin Texas (Don't let that put you off) and it's truly scary when you hear some of the Fundamentalist Bible Belt ringing in and putting forth their point of view about creationist issues. Take a peek at it if you get the chance - especially some of the college debates down the sidebar. Really thought provoking.

Edited August 26, 2013 by keith lockey

[Symptoms]

Keith, I was tempted to have a look at that stuff but thought what's the point ... I just know what their demonic ranting will be about. The trouble is that these types of swivel-eyed crackerjacks and their fairweather followers seem to be gaining in influence to a frightening degree. You can't listen to a news broadcast without some 'foundatation/thinktank/BigGgroup/pro-lifewhackjob' being allowed to spout bile in the name of balance. What's worse is the shyster politicians always seem to kow-tow to these pressure groups. Just look at any group wielding power in our so-called democracy and you'll find the clammy-hand of folks like the pinch-faced presbyterians* on the tiller ... look no further than ACPO (the boss cops' cabal) or the NAHT (the boss teachers' cabal). I don't have a problem if folk need the crutch of religion to lean on but don't let them use it as a banner to march behind whilst treading on the views of the majority. OK, I've now drawn a large target on my back and await the arrival of the Crusaders ...

*this represents a pejorative code for all intolerant religious groups ... also it scans better.

[keith lockey]

Keith, I was tempted to have a look at that stuff but thought what's the point ... I just know what their demonic ranting will be about. The trouble is that these types of swivel-eyed crackerjacks and their fairweather followers seem to be gaining in influence to a frightening degree. You can't listen to a news broadcast without some 'foundatation/thinktank/BigGgroup/pro-lifewhackjob' being allowed to spout bile in the name of balance. What's worse is the shyster politicians always seem to kow-tow to these pressure groups. Just look at any group wielding power in our so-called democracy and you'll find the clammy-hand of folks like the pinch-faced presbyterians* on the tiller ... look no further than ACPO (the boss cops' cabal) or the NAHT (the boss teachers' cabal). I don't have a problem if folk need the crutch of religion to lean on but don't let them use it as a banner to march behind whilst treading on the views of the majority. OK, I've now drawn a large target on my back and await the arrival of the Crusaders ...

*this represents a pejorative code for all intolerant religious groups ... also it scans better.

Symptoms, I fully understand, but Athiest Experience is still worth a look, honest. These guys are athiests who are standing up for their beliefs (wrong word that!) They are a lone voice in a sea of fundamentalist blind-faithers. One of the athiests was going to be a preacher until he realised the hypocrisy of the Bible. (That's a target on my back now) It is a brave stand by these athiests - considering America is steeped in religious Bible thumpers. Some of the callers are so totally blinkered or indoctrined in their beliefs that it is scary. They cannot or will not see some of the truths that are argued by the athiests. Please give it a look, some of the broadcasts are just ten minutes long. The main athiest host is a guy called Matt Dillahunty - he knows his stuff.

Edited August 26, 2013 by keith lockey

[Canny lass]

Elizabeth Burdon wife of William

She seems like an amazing individual but i cannot read the date of death

This is a lovely one Maggie! You really feel that you get to know the woman rather than just a name. As you say, you can't read the date of death here but the language gives us a few clues.

First of all there is a widespread use of a letter that no longer exists in the English language. That's the letter that, at first glance, looks like the letter f. However, if you look closely, you will see that the 'cross piece' doesn't actually cross the upright. It is only attached to the left-hand side of the upright. It's known 'in the trade' as a long-s. I don't have access to it on the computer so I'll use an italic f ( f ) instead. If you look at the 'real' letter f in the words 'fewer', 'fall', and 'features', to mention just a few, you'll see the difference. Here the cross piece sits on the right of the upright.

On the grave stone you can see the long-s in the words :

faid (said)

pofsefsed (possessed)

ufually (usually)

fhare (share)

diftingui fhing(distinguishing)

senfe (sense)

excesfes (excesses)

pafsion (passion)

fentiment (sentiment)

fpirited (spirited)

impofsible (impossible)

pofsefsing (possessing)

reafon (reason)

lofs (loss)

thofe (those)

happinef s (happiness)

confumption (consumption)

No need to tell you that it is pronounced as an s. It was very common in certain combinations, particularly si, st and ss – the latter occurs very often here. Long-s was in common use in medial position, that's to say in the middle of words rather than at the beginning or the end, right up until the late 18^th century but disappeared completely in the early 19^th century. The Times was still using it up until 1803 but it's been found in a few printed materials as late as 1815. I think it was found even later in handwritten documents but certainly not after the first half of the century. Interesting here is that the stonemason is still using it at the beginning of some words. This is unusual after 1800.

Then there's the use of capital letters. As you know we use them to start sentences and for proper nouns but this hasn't always been the case. If you go back to the 10^th century they were hardly used at all. In the 18^th century, however there was an abundance of capital letters as almost every noun - proper or otherwise - was written with a capital letter. That's not the case on this gravestone so I think we've crossed the threshold into the 19^th century. The stonemason is actually very sparse in his use of capitals and most sentences begin with small letters which could be indicative of a desire on his part to keep up with the times but going a little bit OTT. The phenomenon is seen quite often in old texts.

Then there's the use of the word 'consumption'. Consumption is the old word for Tuberculosis and while the disease has been around for thousands of years the name Tuberculosis has not. The disease was discovered at the beginning of the 19^th century and was given its name sometime around the 1830s. Prior to that time it was called consumption.

From a linguistic point of view, I think we can safely say the stone was carved some time at the turn of the century, 1790 -1810 or thereabouts. Does anybody know when the cemetery at West Lea opened?

[Maggie/915]

This gravestone is in the church yard at Saint Cuthbert's

Your post is brilliant Canny Lass.

You learn something new each day..

[Canny lass]

This gravestone is in the church yard at Saint Cuthbert's

Your post is brilliant Canny Lass.

You learn something new each day..

Pleased to be able to help Maggie. It might be possible to find the date of Death in the Church records.

[Canny lass]

Thomas and Dorothy Croudace.

Bedlington Colliery

Here's what I've been able to find out about the Croudace family mentioned here.

Dorothy Croudace, maiden name Swann, appears to have been born in 1840 while her husband, Thomas, a couple of years older was born in 1838. Their marriage was registered in Newcastle in the first quarter of 1959. Their son, Robert Swann, was born some months later around July/August 1859. There's no explanation as to why he was given his mother's surname. The name Robert, however, may have been given in memory of his maternal grandfather who died the same year. Just when this happened, I haven't been able to find out.

At the time of their marriage Thomas was 'of age', having had his 21^st birthday. He did not therefore require his parent's permission to marry. Dorothy, on the other hand was only 19 years old. This may have meant that Dorothy required parental consent to marry. I can't really make any sense of the information about the legal age for marriage at the time as the information available is often contradictory. From what I understand though, it was usual at that time for parents to act as witnesses and sign the marriage register. In the case of Dorothy and Thomas, however, the parent's names do not appear. The witnesses were James Nellis and Elenor Brooks.

It may well have been that Dorothy's parents were against the marriage or that they had already passed away.

Dorothy's lot was not an easy one but she clearly loved her family.

[Canny lass]

Here's what I've been able to find out about the Croudace family mentioned here.

Dorothy Croudace, maiden name Swann, appears to have been born in 1840 while her husband, Thomas, a couple of years older was born in 1838. Their marriage was registered in Newcastle in the first quarter of 1959. Their son, Robert Swann, was born some months later around July/August 1859. There's no explanation as to why he was given his mother's surname. The name Robert, however, may have been given in memory of his maternal grandfather who died the same year. Just when this happened, I haven't been able to find out.

At the time of their marriage Thomas was 'of age', having had his 21^st birthday. He did not therefore require his parent's permission to marry. Dorothy, on the other hand was only 19 years old. This may have meant that Dorothy required parental consent to marry. I can't really make any sense of the information about the legal age for marriage at the time as the information available is often contradictory. From what I understand though, it was usual at that time for parents to act as witnesses and sign the marriage register. In the case of Dorothy and Thomas, however, the parent's names do not appear. The witnesses were James Nellis and Elenor Brooks.

It may well have been that Dorothy's parents were against the marriage or that they had already passed away.

Dorothy's lot was not an easy one but she clearly loved her family.

Sorry, should have said that their marriage was registered in the first quarter of 1859 - not 1959.