Coal Mining

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Hope my post above is readable and be able to understand! Lines not my doing...well,....not knowingly!

[Maggie/915]

Good posts as always HPW

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Heh heh! Thanks Maggie! I try !

[Canny lass]

On 2016-05-02 at 02:00, HIGH PIT WILMA said:

Hope my post above is readable and be able to understand! Lines not my doing...well,....not knowingly!

Had the same problem last year for several months. Capital letters will start popping up in unexpected places next followed by not being able to quote anybody! Just take it in your stride!

[Canny lass]

Here's another question for our coal-mining experts. On his death certificate in 1963, the occupation of a deceased mining relative is stated as "Datal Worker (below) Coal Mining".Does anybody know what is meant by 'Datal Worker?

[Vic Patterson]

Canny lass, my recollection is an hourly or daily paid worker! many workers were on some form of piece work. I’m sure HPW can elaborate.

[Canny lass]

Thanks Vic!

[bluebarby]

http://trimdon.com/trimdon-history/trimdon-snippets/mining-work-page-13/local-mining-terms-pages-29-30-31/

There are some good web sites but I like its simplicity for simpletons like me!

There is also a good book that is worth getting a hold of. 

Pitmatic - the talk of the north east coal field by Bill Griffiths.

BB

[Canny lass]

Thanks BB! I'm sure I'll be using that often.

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Hi folks!

A bit late in catching up!

Vic,spot on marra!

A datal hand was a "shift worker",who was paid "shift-wark",which meant he was the lowest paid man in the pit.

Sometimes shift workers worked a lot harder than some coal-face workers,especially in the modern mechanised faces,where some face-workers pulled levers to operate hydraulic rams to advance face supports etc.[usually pits with excellent dry conditions,mind!]

The Three-Quarter seam at Bates pit was opposite to that statement,cos every body had it rough,it was so wet![timber-lads,beltmen,rolleywaymen,everything they touched was water-logged and very heavy]

Not meaning to nit-pick,but only for correctness,the Mining terms link,needs one or two corrections.

"Afterdamp" is not Carbon Dioxide,[CO2] it should read "Carbon Monoxide" [CO],which is the by-product of incomplete combustion.[referred to as "White-damp" by some miners].It is deadly poisonous,and the Haemoglobin of the blood has an affinity for CO which is 300 times greater than that of Oxygen.

This is present after an explosion,hence the term"After..."..

"Blackdamp" is the term used for Carbon Dioxide,which is caused by Oxygen depletion,especially in old workings where the wood timbers turn "Dazed",[still standing and apparently doing thier job by supporting the roof.....till you poke your finger into a pit prop and it goes straight in like it is soft as butter]

Oxygen combines with every surface,and so gradually depletion takes place,not confined to old workings,can occur in newer but poorly ventilated places underground. It is not poisonous,but rather it is asphyxiating in the abscence of Oxygen.

Of course Nitrogen is always present in the atmosphere,but plays no part in our respiratory system.

"Damp" is a slang word for the German "Dampf".......meaning Gas.

Fore-overman....is ,[in our part of the country],the man in charge of the first,or "fore",shift of a new day,usually the Midnight shift,but at Bedlington A pit,that shift started at 1-35 am.....![not 1-45,or 1-30,it had to be 1-35am prompt!]

No doubt other districts had thier own terminology.

Canch.....we spelt it as Caunch,but pronounced .."Canch..!!

Back-caunch men usually did re-modelling of roadways that were suffering extreme pressure from either roof and sides,or floor heave..,or where roof falls had occured,but not necessarily enlarging a roadway....just restoring it to what it was....same size girders...etc.

Deputy....the ONLY person in any mine in the UK,[Coal,Ironstone,Shale,or Fireclay],who is DIRECTLY responsible to Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Mines and Quarries,under the Mines and Quarries Act of 1954.

No person can go underground,unless accompanied by a Deputy,or a Deputy is already underground,and has completed his Pre-shift Examination of the district

within two hours of the visit.

Not the Overman,nor the Manager,not even the Chairman of the Coal Board,would be allowed underground,unless a Deputy was present.

The Deputy was the person where the buck stopped,in the event of a serious occurence,such as a fatal or serious accident.

He was the person who would be prosecuted before anyone else,in such circumstances.

In an accident,the first words asked  by the Manager,on the surface,would be....."Where was the Deputy...?"

The Deputy was the only person in a mine who had,upon completion of his statutory examinations of his district,to write out official reports of his duties carried out,which were kept at the mine for 6 months,then sent to H.M.Inspectorate .

The Deputy was also the only person,anywhere in the country,in any industry,who was authorised by H.M.Inspectorate,to administer the drug "Morphia" where requested by an injured person.[note....requested!...you cannot administer any drug without the person's consent]

This rule was passed because pits were so difficult to travel in,and so far underground,that a Doctor could not usually reach the scene of an accident within 2 hours of the accident happening.

He had to show to an examining Doctor,how he could perform CPR,as well as adminster the drug.

We weren't all dumb pitmen you know!!!

[mercuryg]

Great stuff HPW, as always!

[Canny lass]

Thanks HPW! A joy to read, as always.

[Maggie/915]

A pleasure to read HPW

Thank you

[webtrekker]

Here's a couple of pics you lot might like that I tweaked in Photoshop  ..............

 

The Ellington Miner

 

 

 

 

Robin of Pegswood

 

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Great pics Webbtrekker!....they were taken of me when aa was ownly 35 yeors aad!!....wi thi original six-pack!

Thanks folks for your kind comments.

My posts,as you all know,are straight from my brain to my screen,with no thinking about it,I type as I think,from experience,training,and memory.

All the above info,was ingrained to me as a young Deputy in 1971-1978,and of course gleaned over a number of years following on.

I never refer to any books,it's all up here[points ti me heed!],and yet a canna remember what a did yistidi!

A spent nearly an hour typing in a post following the last one,late last night,and it wouldn't save,and I lost the whole lot!

Nearly gave up ,but had second thoughts!!

[webtrekker]

Just been fiddling around in Photoshop again. I quite like this image of 'The Silverdale Miner' in Nottinghamshire. I just replaced the sky and tweaked a few levels, I'm no expert!

 

[Symptoms]

Wilma - losing stuff used to happen to me, so if it's going to be a long (or even a short interesting one) I create it in Word (Notepad will do), then copy & paste it into here.  Of course, using Word (or Notepad) allows for saving good stuff.  No more frustration for Sym!

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Thanks Sym!

Each time I try that in word,it asks for my product key number,which I don't know how to find,then it tells me I have only 25 attempts at this....blaa blaa...!

Webbtrekker,that is a mighty fine likeness of the real thing,even doon ti thi rivets aroond the top of thi Glennie,and the switch on thi side of his caplamp,wat switches

atween ya spotleet,and ya taaky - leet!![a smaller powered bulb,more sociable when you were taaking ti ya Marra's at bait-times...you didn't blind them!]

Note the "Bean-can" [as we called it!],on his belt.

"Self-Rescuer" to be correct.

It was a life-saver in the event of a fire or explosion underground.

They were made by Draeger-Normalair,of which  the local factory is on the Bebside industrial estate,as you go up the slip-road ti the Bebside roundabout,on the left.

For those who are unfamiliar with this device,I will try and describe it and it's correct use....briefly,if I can!!!!!

Upon becoming aware of a fire or explosion on the OUTBYE side of you,i.e. with contaminated air being brought into where you were working,with a risk of breathing

CO..[Carbon Monoxide-"Afterdamp"],[which I just recently covered],you would quickly assess the risks with your nose!!

You wouldn't wait for an Official,such as the Deputy or Overman,to TELL  you to put your bean-can on,you would do it with no hesitation...seconds count when you are dealing with CO!!

BUT,you would NOT,I repeat NOT,REMOVE THE RESCUER FROM YOUR FACE,UNTIL AN OFFICIAL INSTRUCTED YOU THAT IT WAS SAFE TO DO SO!

When in use,the canister containing Carbon Granules,and other minerals,converts CO into "breatheable amounts" of CO2..[Carbon Dioxide],which is not poisonous

like CO,[Carbon Monoxide,]and so renders the atmosphere to a safe level for life to survive,providing the wearer can reach a supply of fresh air very quickly,as the rescuer only operates for about one hour,and becomes unbearably hot while being worn.

It is a natural reaction to want to remove the mask,due to the heat,and the difficulty in pulling bad smoky air through it,because you can hardly breathe when under a stressful situation,and trying to hurry when underground,travelling through deep water,slipping and sliding over rough stony wet ground,is very difficult....even in a good supply of cleanish air.[never mind in a situation like this!]

So that's why the rule was brought in,[under mining "Rules and Regulations"],about waiting to be instructed when to remove your mask.

The mask was removed from the canister by pulling up on a metal "safety " strap,which held the two halves of the canister together,with the mask safely packed inside.

If,somehow,this strap got broken off or damaged in any way,you had to report it to the lamp-cabin man,to ensure you had a fresh one for your next shift.

Think!!,if you carelessly forgot,and threw it back into it's docket,then put it back on next day...........then it is needed in an emergency.......you've had it mate!!

Chemical reaction takes place the minute it is exposed to the atmosphere,so if the canister is damaged ,or the strap gets broken off,it takes about an hour,then it is useless!

Mind,they were the most-cussed device ever used by any miners working in very low seams!![in safe environments!]

They got caught on every single obstruction there was ,while crawling down a coal-face...timber props,hydraulic hoses [of which there were hundreds!],electric cables.......big stones...where there had been a roof fall and it was very narrow,or low,to travel through.....you would hear your marra's cursing!!...bliddy bean-cans!!!

When worn on the face,they were similar to war-time gas masks,without the freaky eye-holes!!...a clip over your nose to prevent contaminated air reaching your lungs by that route,and a hard mouth-piece which you "bit" on with a rubber gasket enclosing your mouth and cheeks,to seal it also.

Then any air you breathed in,entered through the canister of Carbon Granules,and if I am not mistaken,[maybe I am!],the canister also had Aluminium Oxide

crystals..[or granules....whatever!]

Hope I have painted a decent enough picture of how the "Bean-can"..."Self-Rescuer" saved lives in the event of the aftermath of a fire or explosion.

Not only Miners had these devices,anybody who might be exposed to CO ,such as firemen etc,would have these along with the equipment they would normally

use.

Might I add that the bean-can was useless in any other gaseous atmosphere,such as H2S [Hydrogen Sulphide-"Stinkdamp"...deadly poisonous!],or CO2,[Carbon Dioxide......"Blackdamp"...not poisonous...but asphyxiating as I already explained earlier].

Well,time to pile a few zzzzzzzzz's  up again!

G'nite folks!

[Vic Patterson]

35 minutes ago, HIGH PIT WILMA said:

Thanks Sym!

Each time I try that in word,it asks for my product key number,which I don't know how to find,then it tells me I have only 25 attempts at this....blaa blaa...!

Webbtrekker,that is a mighty fine likeness of the real thing,even doon ti thi rivets aroond the top of thi Glennie,and the switch on thi side of his caplamp,wat switches

atween ya spotleet,and ya taaky - leet!![a smaller powered bulb,more sociable when you were taaking ti ya Marra's at bait-times...you didn't blind them!]

Note the "Bean-can" [as we called it!],on his belt.

"Self-Rescuer" to be correct.

It was a life-saver in the event of a fire or explosion underground.

They were made by Draeger-Normalair,of which  the local factory is on the Bebside industrial estate,as you go up the slip-road ti the Bebside roundabout,on the left.

For those who are unfamiliar with this device,I will try and describe it and it's correct use....briefly,if I can!!!!!

Upon becoming aware of a fire or explosion on the OUTBYE side of you,i.e. with contaminated air being brought into where you were working,with a risk of breathing

CO..[Carbon Monoxide-"Afterdamp"],[which I just recently covered],you would quickly assess the risks with your nose!!

You wouldn't wait for an Official,such as the Deputy or Overman,to TELL  you to put your bean-can on,you would do it with no hesitation...seconds count when you are dealing with CO!!

BUT,you would NOT,I repeat NOT,REMOVE THE RESCUER FROM YOUR FACE,UNTIL AN OFFICIAL INSTRUCTED YOU THAT IT WAS SAFE TO DO SO!

When in use,the canister containing Carbon Granules,and other minerals,converts CO into "breatheable amounts" of CO2..[Carbon Dioxide],which is not poisonous

like CO,[Carbon Monoxide,]and so renders the atmosphere to a safe level for life to survive,providing the wearer can reach a supply of fresh air very quickly,as the rescuer only operates for about one hour,and becomes unbearably hot while being worn.

It is a natural reaction to want to remove the mask,due to the heat,and the difficulty in pulling bad smoky air through it,because you can hardly breathe when under a stressful situation,and trying to hurry when underground,travelling through deep water,slipping and sliding over rough stony wet ground,is very difficult....even in a good supply of cleanish air.[never mind in a situation like this!]

So that's why the rule was brought in,[under mining "Rules and Regulations"],about waiting to be instructed when to remove your mask.

The mask was removed from the canister by pulling up on a metal "safety " strap,which held the two halves of the canister together,with the mask safely packed inside.

If,somehow,this strap got broken off or damaged in any way,you had to report it to the lamp-cabin man,to ensure you had a fresh one for your next shift.

Think!!,if you carelessly forgot,and threw it back into it's docket,then put it back on next day...........then it is needed in an emergency.......you've had it mate!!

Chemical reaction takes place the minute it is exposed to the atmosphere,so if the canister is damaged ,or the strap gets broken off,it takes about an hour,then it is useless!

Mind,they were the most-cussed device ever used by any miners working in very low seams!![in safe environments!]

They got caught on every single obstruction there was ,while crawling down a coal-face...timber props,hydraulic hoses [of which there were hundreds!],electric cables.......big stones...where there had been a roof fall and it was very narrow,or low,to travel through.....you would hear your marra's cursing!!...bliddy bean-cans!!!

When worn on the face,they were similar to war-time gas masks,without the freaky eye-holes!!...a clip over your nose to prevent contaminated air reaching your lungs by that route,and a hard mouth-piece which you "bit" on with a rubber gasket enclosing your mouth and cheeks,to seal it also.

Then any air you breathed in,entered through the canister of Carbon Granules,and if I am not mistaken,[maybe I am!],the canister also had Aluminium Oxide

crystals..[or granules....whatever!]

Hope I have painted a decent enough picture of how the "Bean-can"..."Self-Rescuer" saved lives in the event of the aftermath of a fire or explosion.

Not only Miners had these devices,anybody who might be exposed to CO ,such as firemen etc,would have these along with the equipment they would normally

use.

Might I add that the bean-can was useless in any other gaseous atmosphere,such as H2S [Hydrogen Sulphide-"Stinkdamp"...deadly poisonous!],or CO2,[Carbon Dioxide......"Blackdamp"...not poisonous...but asphyxiating as I already explained earlier].

Well,time to pile a few zzzzzzzzz's  up again!

G'nite folks!

Potassium superoxide KO2, I used to check and service these for our underground mine rescue teams when I was with our Surface Mine Rescue team, after use during the turn around we would also check and service the Draeger SCBA so the underground teams could rest longer before going back underground, time can be vital in a situation.

I think they use compressed oxygen now, probably a lot cooler! Google time....

[Canny lass]

Thanks Vic and HPW. We are so lucky here  to have access to all your mining knowledge! As for the bean-can, I am delighted to have now found out what it is. I've only ever seen it on pictures but in my naivety I've always thought it was some kind of bait-box! Which brings me to another question: Where do miners keep, and eat, their 'bait' when underground? Surely, you can't have a 'canteen' underground.

Another thing that was interesting to read was how the bean-can worked - by converting carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide. Many people think that carbon dioxide is dangerous, but back in the 70's when barbiturate drugs were dished out like Dolly Mixtures (remember them?), for insomnia, respiratory difficulties caused by overdosing were treated with carbon dioxide. - not oxygen as - carbon dioxide is what stimulates the repiratory centre in the brain.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Canny lass

[webtrekker]

Some wonderful information in here. Thanks all for a very good read.

[webtrekker]

Quote

A spent nearly an hour typing in a post following the last one,late last night,and it wouldn't save,and I lost the whole lot!

 

HPW, I use Firefox browser and have added an extension called 'Textarea Cache' which is very simple in operation. It places a small icon in the bottom status bar of the browser and tracks everything you type. If your post disappears you can simply click on the icon which fetches up a dialogue box where you can copy the text you just entered, like this ...

 

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

3 hours ago, Canny lass said:

Thanks Vic and HPW. We are so lucky here  to have access to all your mining knowledge! As for the bean-can, I am delighted to have now found out what it is. I've only ever seen it on pictures but in my naivety I've always thought it was some kind of bait-box! Which brings me to another question: Where do miners keep, and eat, their 'bait' when underground? Surely, you can't have a 'canteen' underground.

Apart from a short guided tour, early 60s, a short distance into the Dr. Pit, probably with a chocolate bar in me pocket, never ate underground but always found the stories and the reasoning behind sarnie fillings interesting and amusing. Extracts from some of the members comments on the sixtownships site :-

Mick Riley :- Used eat mine on the kist next to a transformer - Geoff Glass :- Used to sometimes eat mine sitting on transformer

Nancy Luke :- Dad always had his jam sandwiches ,cheese attracted the rats lol.x

Bill Engles :-  My Dad (Joe Engles, Ellington) always took something for his Gallower too.

Margaret Vare :- they had bread n jam .......they say it was the only thing that had any taste down the pit ....

Pam Farquhar :-  My grandad Tyler used to take an extra jam sandwich doon the pit and bring it back for me mam when she was a little girl she said it tasted lovely x

Doreen Armstrong :- My dad used to take sugar on bread when he worked down the pit (for a short time in his life) because he said everything tasted the same down there!.

Lawrence Whitfield :- I've had my bait in worse places than that so have most miners.The paper wrapping the sandwiches would be used to hold the bread as you ate it,you never knew where those hands had been!, It was a flask of tea I'm my day but that had its hazards,uncovered the top would get covered in coal dust or even worse,shit fleas.I didn't mind swallowing the dust but I drew the line at the fleas.

John Dawson :- Lawrence if i had no paper held me sarnie on the corner and threw the corner bit away on the belt. Seen some throw food on the ground and you know they generated the deadly and termed "Shit Fly" Had to sit with my lamp out as if it was on it attracted them to you. Mind you must have swallowed many accidentally too.

Lawrence Whitfield :- As long as we didn't know it was ok,it was awful if one of the little buggers got up your nose though a good pinch of Singletons snuff helped get it down again.Once the snuff got dried up in your locker it would blow a safe door off.

Lawrence Whitfield :- One bloke down Lynemouth never carried bait or water,he would sneak a drink out of someone else's bottle as it hung on a dog in a prop.In the end the blokes got fed up & laced the water with Epsom Salts,they reckon the result was spectacular..

Rob Hardy :- Had to sit in tub sometimes to have bate cos it was too wet to sit

Malcolm Common :- I remember at Burradon as you got out of the cage at the Bensham Seam Inset somebody had chalked on one of the Girders " Your'e late Your'e Late your much too late Geordie Johnson's snatched your bait " also when walking into a flat you would see the little bait parcels wrapped up and hung up from the centre of the arch girders with cap wire in an attempt to to prevent mice getting into jacket pockets and eating your bait while you were on the face.

------------------------------------------------------------------

and I'm sure HPW will explain any pit terminology, like Kist - A chest or the Deputies' office underground often used as an assembly point for men to find out where they will be working ?
 

 

 

[webtrekker]

I remember my Dad taking his bait to the Dr. Pit for him and Taffy, his pit pony.

His marra always took something 'posh,' like Spam, which the lads called 'pink lint' I believe.

I'm sure most of you know that Cornish pasties were taken down the tin mines for bait, and the ridge of crust provided a means of holding the pasty with dirty hands without affecting the filling. This was important because the ore often contained arsenic as well as tin.

[webtrekker]

Anyway, all this talk of eating down the pit has reminded me of an old joke I first heard from my Dad. I doubt whether any of you haven't heard it before and I can't remember the exact words but the theme went something like this ...

 

BILLY: Y'aal reet Geordie marra. Wud y like a bullet? Aa got them from the bottom shop t'other day.

GEORDIE: Aye, aa wadn't mind Billy. Wot are they?

BILLY: Sugared Almonds, Geordie.

GEORDIE: Ah, sorry Billy mate, aa divn't care too much for the sugar.

 

A couple of days later ...

BILLY; Fancy a bullet Geordie?

GEORDIE: Not if they're them sugary things ye had t'other day Billy.

BILLY: Ner, tha's nee sugar on these Geordie.

 

So Geordie takes a handful and munches on them ...

GEORDIE: Almonds, and they're very tasty marra. Did ye get these at another shop then?

BILLY: Ner. They're wot aa had t'other day but aa've sucked aal the sugar off them!