Coal Mining

[Bill 19]

Thanks HPW and James, very interesting.

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

On 01/03/2019 at 11:28, James said:

Anyone know when the baths were officially opened and when they closed for the last time?

 

James - 1973 newspaper article and photos posted by John Krzyznowski on the Facebook group Bygone Bedlington

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)

[James]

Thanks for the information Eggy.

It looks like the swimming baths were open for about 47 years; 1926 to 1973. After it closed it was converted to a paddling pool but this didn't last long and now it is a children's play area. The two photos are taken from roughly the same position about 40 years apart.

 

 

 

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

5 hours ago, James said:

Thanks for the information Eggy.

It looks like the swimming baths were open for about 47 years; 1926 to 1973. After it closed it was converted to a paddling pool but this didn't last long and now it is a children's play area. The two photos are taken from roughly the same position about 40 years apart.

Now that's before my time and one I haven't seen before. There are a couple of photos that have done the rounds on the Social Media groups showing when they used to hold competitions at the baths :- 

 

 

 

Caroline Dobinson posted this 2017 photo of the area:-

Edited March 3, 2019 by Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)

[grizwald]

Such a shame it's not there any more. Definitely some of my happiest days were spent there, we would swim all day - in that freezing water and talk to 'Wilf' (the manager) about the correct way to do the 'Australian Front Crawl', in between crash diving on your mates ... still go on about it now.

 

 

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

1 hour ago, grizwald said:

......................we would swim all day - in that freezing water 

 

 

Late 1950's = 3d for 8hrs 

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

On 13/02/2019 at 02:05, HIGH PIT WILMA said:

Whey yi bugga!Barry Muldoon went on ti Deputy -work and eventually became Face-Overman in charge of wor District doon the Three-Quarter drift..well-liked and respected by all the lads.One day we had a stretcher-case,and we carried the lad oot doon the Mothergate till we came to a lang deep swalley..pump had burnt out,[which was the norm!],and the water was above waist high..Barry was with us escorting the stretcher bearers,[me included!]..the swalley was about 50 yards long,and ye cud see the girder crowns gaan away in the reflection of the black stinking water.Barry looked at me,[cos aa hadn't been off Deputy-work very long,and had more pit experience than him..with respect..],a said to him.."Barry..we haven't got any choice...!" ...he looked at me again and replied.."ya reet bill..aal stop the belt.."

He went to a "Latch-box",safety  stop-button,and stopped the conveyor belt.We humped the stretcher,with the lad strapped onto it,high up onto the coal-laden conveyor belt,Bill Etheridge..[my long time Marra..and "pit-Brother"]..lay completely flat on top of the coal,facing outbye,and holding the stretcher handles to steady it,and aa did the same thing at the other end of the stretcher..only aa was laid flat and facing INBYE!,going out legs first,and fully trusting Bill to direct me when to keep my head down in the coal,when to move my head to one side or the other,to avoid broken timber struts from taking my head off,etc.[cos the roof was only aboot 12 inches above us in places!]

Barry stayed in control at the latchbox,and "Janted"  the conveyor,[got the conveyor belt button man to switch the belt on and off in short bursts],each time the belt would run about 15 yards and stop...we were thrown up and down over the rollers and the lad on the stretcher was screaming in pain...but there was no option..we were in a dead-end situation,at this point the conveyor belt was slung high to the roof because of the deep swalley,to keep the belt-line straight and level as possible,but it mean't we couldn't get back off the belt once we had cleared the water,so Barry had to keep Janting the belt for about a hundred yards till we were near to the ground again..!

Maybe doesn't sound much of a story,but I can tell you that going backwards on a conveyor,nearly ten feet up from the ground,in bad conditions,with the risk of being thrown off the belt,or the belt breaking with continuous Janting,and being cast into four feet deep black freezing water..wasn't much fun..and I can honestly say I had the wind up until we were safely on the ground again.

After that,we had to carry the stretcher half a mile more outbye,and up a quarter-mile long drift,with a 1-in -6 gradient,rough-shot stone ground..slipping and sliding all the way,and hanging onto the girders with one hand for support,and holding the stretcher with the other hand.

Barry was cool as a cucumber the whole way,with no flustering at all...a great lad to have in charge![funny situations occurred like that,where I used to be in charge of a team,one minute,then some of the teams went to be Deputies,and Overman,then they would be in charge of me..!!]

Les Coleman..[Deceased..R.I.P. Les..],was one of our fitters when we were winning new coal-faces and roadways oot..["Composite-work"..it was called..].

Les wasn't very tall,or well-built,but what a fitter he was,among the best...and we had some gud fitters,and electricians!!

He wud have been an apprentice on this pic,cos he was an underground coalface fitter full-time....so would Jimmy Mulvain,he was an affectionate quiet lad,unlike Les and all the tradesmen,who had wits sharper than a pit bowsaw!!..ye had ti be ready ti counter most of the crew,or they would make mincemeat of you,in front of an audience underground..Jimmy didn't have that in him...so docile and mannerly,he used to take a lot of flak from his Marra's..in the way of banter!

Eh! These pics bring back loads of memories!

Sadly,a lot of the lads died at very early ages,and we often wonder if it was through handling fluids such as Phosphate-Esters ,Hydraulic fluids,Aquacent soluble hydraulic fluid,gear oils etc..another one was "Rodol",a caustic agent used to burn heavy Carbon deposits off the Flame-traps on the Diesel loco's used underground..as well as diesel fumes and exhaust fumes from the loco's.

We will never know..

Thanks for posting Alan,and could you pass my regards ti Steve,please!

@HIGH PIT WILMA - one of the responses on the Facebook Friends of Bates Colliery group was from a Keith Wilson:-

Keith Wilson  
Fantastic! The story telling that is, not the event, that scared the life out of me an brought home something of the hardships you lads had to endure

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Thanks Alan,for starting a new topic on Bates,and rightly so....I get engrossed in my memoirs so much that I don't realise I am digressing to other topics!!

Also can you pass on my gracious thanks to Keith Wilson for his kind comments on me reminiscing!!...I wonder if Richard is his

middle name,and if it is....it is a small world,to me that is!!....but maybe not to Kieth!!

I think if he is  who I suspect he is,then he will understand what I mean!...[Johnny-B-Goode should be an important clue!]

Noo,the pics of the Humford  baths brings loads of memories...of jumping into the freezing waata and nearly droondin!!

[Symptoms]

On 12/02/2019 at 08:54, Alan Edgar (Eggy1948) said:

Update on the names from Steve Tosney and he says they are Surface Fitters & Blacksmiths:- 

I'm still in contact with Barry Muldoon

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

2 hours ago, Symptoms said:

I'm still in contact with Barry Muldoon

@Symptoms - are you going to send him the photo?

[Symptoms]

Yep, I'll send him a copy of the snap.  I was at school with him.

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Sym, would ye be sae kind ti pass me regards and best wishes ti Barry Mulldoon,and remind him of this event,["Story" is a figure of speech...this was no story which I posted aboot Barry and the stretcher case dilemma!],also please tell him it was a pleasure working with him in the most stinkinest conditions ye could ivvor put a human being to work in...the 3/4R SEAM doon Bates Pit!!

I will PM you Sym,with my name and that of my Marra's,some of whom are no longer with us now,in case Barry's grey matter needs a jog....like mine!

A just had another glance at thi pic,and Roy Pink's face flashed back at me....and it just hit me...Roy was a smashing fella,a think naebody wud disagree wi me on that ...a wonder if Roy is still knocking aroond..

[Canny lass]

Can any of you miners help me? On a death certificate dated 1913 the profession of the informant is given as "Coal miner (Charge man)". Previously the same person has been recorded as Coal miner, Hewer (underground) so there seems to have been some sort of change. Can anyone tell me what a "Charge man" is/was?

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

15 hours ago, Canny lass said:

Can any of you miners help me? On a death certificate dated 1913 the profession of the informant is given as "Coal miner (Charge man)". Previously the same person has been recorded as Coal miner, Hewer (underground) so there seems to have been some sort of change. Can anyone tell me what a "Charge man" is/was?

CL - the Durham Mining Museum site has a section - Mining occupations in alphabetical order :- http://www.dmm.org.uk/educate/mineocc.htm

What I don't know is if the profession 'Charge Man' refers to the same as 'Chargeman' as list on the DMM. I don't know if there is also a connection to the miner in charge of the 'Shot Box' as shown, and briefly described, in James's photo in the Dr Pit & Roes album.

 

I'm sure @James or @HIGH PIT WILMA will fully ex[plain 

 

Chargeman	1894:	Person in charge
Chargeman tunneller	1894:	Foreman in charge of men driving a tunnel

Hewers	1825:	persons that hew or cut the coal from its natural situation.
	1849:	A man who works coals. His age ranges from 21 to 70. His usual wages (1849) are from 3s. 9d. to 4s. 3d. per day of 8 hours working, and his average employment 4 or 5 days in the week. He also has, as part of his wages, a house containing two or three rooms, according to the number in his family, and a garden, of which the average size may be 6 or 8 perches ; also a fother of small coals each fortnight, for the leading of which he pays sixpence.
	1892:	The hewer is the actual coal-digger. Whether the seam be so thin that he can hardly creep into it on hands and knees, or whether it be thick enough for him to stand upright, he is the responsible workman who loosens the coal from the bed. The hewers are divided into "fore-shift" and "back-shift" men. The former usually work from four in the morning till ten, and the latter from ten till four. Each man works one week in the fore-shift and one week in the back-shift, alternately. Every man in the fore-shift marks "3" on his door. This is the sign for the "caller" to wake him at that hour. When roused by that important functionary he gets up and dresses in his pit clothes, which consist of a loose jacket, vest, and knee breeches, all made of thick white flannel; long stockings, strong shoes, and a close fitting, thick leather cap. He then takes a piece of bread and water, or a cup of coffee, but never a full meal. Many prefer to go to work fasting. With a tin bottle full of cold water or tea, a piece of bread, which is called his bait, his Davy lamp, and "baccy-box," he says good-bye to his wife and speeds off to work. Placing himself in the cage, he is lowered to the bottom of the shaft, where he lights his lamp and proceeds "in by," to a place appointed to meet the deputy. This official examines each man's lamp, and, if found safe, returns it locked to the owner. Each man then finding from the deputy that his place is right, proceeds onwards to his cavel†, his picks in one hand, and his lamp in the other. He travels thus a distance varying from 100 to 600 yards. Sometimes the roof under which he has to pass is not more than three feet high. To progress in this space the feet are kept wide apart, the body is bent at right angles with the hips, the head is held well down, and the face is turned forward. Arrived at his place he undresses and begins by hewing out about fifteen inches of the lower part of the coal. He thus undermines it, and the process is called kirving. The same is done up the sides. This is called nicking. The coal thus hewn is called small coal, and that remaining between the kirve and the nicks is the jud or top, which is either displaced by driving in wedges, or is blasted down with gunpowder. It then becomes the roundy. The hewer fills his tubs, and continues thus alternately hewing and filling.

[Canny lass]

Thanks Eggy! I've had another look at the death certificate after reading your reply and I think it is only one word 'Chargeman' but the handstyle isn't the best so I can't be certain. Myself, I was wondering if "charge"  could be anything to do with explosives.

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

@James & @HIGH PIT WILMA - posted on the Bygone Bedlington group by Kathy Moscrop . Is this an old Shot Box?

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

seeWow! Kathy, the red box needs to be handled very carefully if you can't open it. I am 99.99999% sure that Granda asked the Magazine (Explosives Store!) Attendant, for an empty box for posterity, but cant be  100% certain!! These boxes contained the Electric Detonators, that were inserted into the sticks of Explosive (Thi "Pooda"), and which, when  connected to the Exploder Battery or Dynamo device, fired the shots. The modern Explosives couldn't be fired without a detonator, it would just burn if thrown on the fire, it was regarded as Ultra Safe Explosive, whereas in the old days, Black Gunpowder would explode with a spark! Noo, these detonators were capable of blowing your hand off iff handled the wrong way, or if static electricity from a nylon shirt sparking, or, more likely, static electricity from Compressed Air equipment down the mine, came into contact with the trailing wires!. If this box has Detonators in it, they will have two yellow wires, denoting that they are "Instantaneous" Detonators. That is, they will explode the moment they are set off. Delay Detonators had different coloured wires, for different purposes, with different lengths of delay between "Fired" with the exploder, and actually Exploding, the delays were determined in Milliseconds, or Thousands of a second. I personally would not rule out the possibility of it having Detonators in it! Remember, there is no such thing as an "Empty" Gun!! Chris Sogorski on Facebook, an old Marra of mine, at Bates, will have a key to open the Det Box, if you get in touch with him,or I can ask him, if you want. Please treat the DetBox with care, prevention is better than cure! It was common in the old days for the old miners to  take "Pooda" (sticks of Powder.. it wasnt Gelignite like the ignorant press would report!), to put around their Cabbages to keep the Slugs and other garden pests off!! It alarmed people who moved into the property and found Pooda in the shed, but it was completely harmless! Just the words "Nobel Explosives" set people freaking out! Aahh, ignorance was bliss!! 

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

Don't know where the "see" came from, at the start of me last post!! 

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

1 hour ago, HIGH PIT WILMA said:

seeWow! Kathy, the red box needs to be handled very carefully if you can't open it. I am 99.99999% sure that Granda asked the Magazine (Explosives Store!) Attendant, for an empty box for posterity, but cant be  100% certain!! These boxes contained the Electric Detonators, that were inserted into the sticks of Explosive (Thi "Pooda"), and which, when  connected to the Exploder Battery or Dynamo device, fired the shots. The modern Explosives couldn't be fired without a detonator, it would just burn if thrown on the fire, it was regarded as Ultra Safe Explosive, whereas in the old days, Black Gunpowder would explode with a spark! Noo, these detonators were capable of blowing your hand off iff handled the wrong way, or if static electricity from a nylon shirt sparking, or, more likely, static electricity from Compressed Air equipment down the mine, came into contact with the trailing wires!. If this box has Detonators in it, they will have two yellow wires, denoting that they are "Instantaneous" Detonators. That is, they will explode the moment they are set off. Delay Detonators had different coloured wires, for different purposes, with different lengths of delay between "Fired" with the exploder, and actually Exploding, the delays were determined in Milliseconds, or Thousands of a second. I personally would not rule out the possibility of it having Detonators in it! Remember, there is no such thing as an "Empty" Gun!! Chris Sogorski on Facebook, an old Marra of mine, at Bates, will have a key to open the Det Box, if you get in touch with him,or I can ask him, if you want. Please treat the DetBox with care, prevention is better than cure! It was common in the old days for the old miners to  take "Pooda" (sticks of Powder.. it wasnt Gelignite like the ignorant press would report!), to put around their Cabbages to keep the Slugs and other garden pests off!! It alarmed people who moved into the property and found Pooda in the shed, but it was completely harmless! Just the words "Nobel Explosives" set people freaking out! Aahh, ignorance was bliss!! 

Cheers HPW - I have posted your comment for Kathy to see. When I went to post it a member of the Bygone Bedlington group, Ron Chivers, had a key and has opened the box. Kathy followed up with a couple of photos after the box was opened :-    

Fortunately - nowt inside the box

Edited May 11, 2021 by Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)

[lilbill15]

On 18/11/2015 at 00:08, HIGH PIT WILMA said:

Hi Tony!

             Frankie Heron,and he's Brother Jackie,lived with their Parents,directly opposite my Family home in Hollymount Square,in Bedlington,from

the first dozen houses built not long after the war.[somewhere around 1947-8 ish]

They were two big smart fella's,Frankie being the extrovert,always shouting over a loud hello to my family,out in the street,taking photo's of life in the

street,all of the bairns playing,sitting us on the wall for group shots,etc.

I have got Frankie to thank forever,for taking the only shot in existence of my little Spaniel/lakeland terrier dog,sitting on the wall, like an ornament,posing for him!

I would have been roughly 12 yrs old,and my little dog got killed on the road beside the "store"..[Co-op],by a speeding opencast coal lorry,not long after the pic was taken.

This would have been about 1956,when Bedlington  suddenly went from being a quiet,traffic-free road,[the main street],to Tulip's coal lorries thundering down the street overladen with coal,speeding down Bedlington bank,spewing smoke-screens of exhaust fumes,on the way to Bebside Pit to be unloaded at the washery plant.

Jackie was very reserved,but still very sociable,in a more quieter way.

Old..[to us kids!] Mr and Mrs Heron,were a lovely couple,and Mrs Heron and My Mother were very close friends for years.

Frankie had the nickname of "Spanky",at the Doctor Pit,probably cos when he went out,he always went dressed to the knocker,immaculate,his ginger top always vaselined doon!!

When we talk aboot thi gud aad days,THEY WERE gud aad days,in a proper aad-fashioned pit community.

Thinking back,a suppose everybody got dressed in "Sunday best",when they went anywhere special,cos most folks had nowt except work clothes,

and "best" clothes.....nae big wardrobes full of designer-wear in them days!

Sorry to hear of Frankie's passing ,Tony,thanks for the info.

R.I.P. Frankie.

Aah, HPW, what was your little dog’s name, and his/her name, please? D’you have that photo?  I’m a strong dog lover, they’re as much a part of our history in my belief 🌈xx

[DJA 24]

On 21/05/2015 at 17:35, Orloff said:

HPW, I remember Dodds, or T Dodds tranport named after the owner Tom Dodds. He lived at 5 Cambo Avenue. My Mum used to clean for Tom's wife Kath. His son was called Tom also, so he may still be around. Tom senior used to favour AEC trucks and I distinctly remember his 1950's Mammoth Major. 

Tom Dodds Snr was one of my Step Grandfathers brothers. I remember Granddad receiving a postcard Tom sent him from the 1970 World Cup in Mexico, no idea where the card went!

[HIGH PIT WILMA]

[31-8-2023]...I jus caught up again,a bit late,but just to explain what the detbox was for.As you can see,it has the title stamped on the plate.."HUMANE CARTRIDGES"....This box would have been taken down the pit by a Deputy or other AUTHORISED person,for the sole purpose for use with the "HUMANE KILLER" GUN...and usually accompanied by a qualified Vetinarary Surgeon,to put a seriously injured pit pony to sleep,in cases where the the pony was too far inbye to be brought out by walking him..usually broken legs. The gun didn't fire the cartridges like an ordinary gun...there was a very sharp metal spike contained within the barrel which had a limited travel,purely designed to be activated by a cartridge,and which,when held at the pony's forehead,fired the spike into the pony's brain causing instaneous death..no pain whatsoever..as opposed to the old method which consisted of placing a hand held spike to the pony's forehead,and striking the spike physically and sharply,with a heavy mallet..which sometimes had to be struck more than once..definately causing pain to the already injured animal.These events are the sort of thing which was never talked about in publications of any kind concerning Mining.

But when a horse got really badly injured,the men would pass the word around in the pit.."Aye..Bobby's had the Spike"..it was always a sad thing to hear..

[Canny lass]

Found this little bit of information today, dated 8th November 1920:

 

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

So the 1920 ambulance motor value today would be £44,094.08. (8 x £5,511.76)

An NHS ambulance today costs £156,000.00.

Therfore the 1920 £800.00 ambulance motor was approximately 350% less the value of a 2023 amblance 

 

 

 

[Vic Patterson]

3 hours ago, Canny lass said:

Found this little bit of information today, dated 8th November 1920:

 

Same year as my car!