The Big Battery Factory

[threegee]

4 hours ago, Alan Edgar (Eggy1948) said:

Looks like the UK wants to reduce carbon emissions by less battery plants than the rest of Europe and more car sharing

Carbon emissions aren't the problem.  The major problems with ICE are:

• The UK has depleted its own oil reserves.
• It can only get more expensive.
• There's a huge, hidden health problem from NOX emissions.
• It's extremely inefficient as a method of propulsion (circa 17% efficiency).
• It's all in the wrong places on earth, so costs more energy to transport.
• It costs lives in other ways: practically every war in modern times has oil as root cause.

Lots of more minor problems too.  Think gas street lamps in the age of the electric light bulb - that's where we are currently at!  People resisting EVs are of exactly the same mentality as those silly people in the 1910s claiming that the horseless carriage would never catch on.

[Vic Patterson]

2 hours ago, threegee said:

People resisting EVs are of exactly the same mentality as those silly people in the 1910s claiming that the horseless carriage would never catch on.

Because in 1910 most vehicles were steam or electric powered and the horseless carriage wasn’t economically viable until gasoline (petrol) driven carriages were developed, Petrol was a cheap throw way byproduct! A similar situation as today’s EV’s until they are developed enough to be as practical replacements.

I look forward to be able to buy and use an EV, but because of my location, climate and costs they are still prohibitive, my alternate vehicles only needs petrol to start but runs on anything flammable (moonshine etc!) and doesn’t need a battery.

2 hours ago, threegee said:

The UK has depleted its own oil reserves.

Alberta has an abundance of oil, gas and coal, No shortage here.

 

 

2 hours ago, threegee said:

It's extremely inefficient as a method of propulsion (circa 17% efficiency).

ICE 30%. EV 80%

2 hours ago, threegee said:

It's all in the wrong places on earth, so costs more energy to transport.

Canada Government is blocking the use of Alberta pipelines! (we are landlocked)

You do make a lot of good points three gee.

Edited August 9 by Vic Patterson

[threegee]

4 hours ago, Vic Patterson said:

  6 hours ago, threegee said:

It's extremely inefficient as a method of propulsion (circa 17% efficiency).

ICE 30%. EV 80%

OK, we are both right.  Power directly from the engine is at around 30%, but power into the wheels is at around 17% efficiency. Also, ICE engines can't recover the kinetic energy of the vehicle, so it's wasted in the braking system.  This can be a huge factor as Pepsi are reporting with their new semis..

Quote

"Going across Donner Pass and back from [Sacramento] to Nevada, we're able to, on the trip back, actually zero out, in terms of state of charge improving due to regenerative braking… It extends range for us in a way that is invaluable."

-- Dejan Antunović, Pepsi

Of course, the waste heat from the engine can be very useful in cold climates, so there can be some offset.  This doesn't seem to have influence our Norwegian friends too much, though, as more than 80% of their new vehicle purchases are now EVs.

[Vic Patterson]

I'm looking forward to the day EV is practical here, but it's still not here, there are two EV's here in town, both Tesla, but no charging stations within a 120 miles, they can reach the next town north but needs a partial recharge to get home, a full charge is needed to reach the city, same to return, a long time wasted if you're just picking up at he airport or for a short medical appointment.

Regenerative braking is only good for inefficient driving! I often drive to the next town south 95 miles and not touch the brake, in the mountains and using cruise control, or to the city 300 miles and only brake at the gas station.

I suspect the normal driving distances in Norway is much less and have a battery charging infrastructure in place, their winter is shorter and not as severe as here. 

For now Plug-in Hybrid (PHEV) cars would be ideal. My daughter lives close to the city, drives a Prius and loves it.

[threegee]

It's not simply braking, your engine/transmission is contributing lots of drag too.  There's a charging station in practically every garage or on every drive - it's called a wall outlet.  We quite happily used the little box that came with the car for over a year, and could still get by without the 3-phase wall charger.  But it's nice to know that we can head off on a long trip at max capacity at very little notice, and that we can offer destination charging to visiting friends.  I got an extra long Type 2 cable so that it will reach under the door onto our back lane: one day someone will thank me for this!

People have been fed the idea that you must have dedicated fast chargers everywhere, but the reality is that all you need is to adjust your mindset away from your expensive dinosaur juice addiction.  My only wish is that our wall charger and the car could agree to a slower charging rate, as even the minimum setting (5A of 3-phase) generally tops up the car in little more than an hour of cheap rate power when actually I want to extend this over much more of the cheap rate period.

So IMHO too much is made of charging times.  Very rarely have we ever been ready to go from a stop before the car was, and not having to queue to pay at service stations is an extra bonus. You can be taking on power within a few seconds of arriving, and it's simply pull the connector and go.  In fact, there have been occasions when a short charging time has been a bit of a pain: getting to the top floor of a hotel and flopping down on the bed to almost immediately get a message that the charge is complete, and you're expected to remove the vehicle from the charger within ten minutes!  Always best to find a hotel with a reserved destination charger that tops you up overnight for free.  We arrived at one posh Italian hotel in the early hours to find the manager - no less - standing ready to remove the reserved sign right outside the main entrance to enable us to plug in for a free overnight charge.  No lugging our bags from the car park, and very satisfied customers who will definitely revisit.

PHEVs are a bit of a joke when they park up at public chargers in an attempt to bolster their tiny electric range, and actually annoy other EV owners.  There's a usage case for people who do short commutes and can filch power from an employer, but generally they are the worst of both worlds: none of the maintenance savings and very little fuel saving to compensate for all the extra complexity.  I convinced one of our neighbours here to wait for an affordable proper EV, and I'm sure that's coming fairly soon now.

I agree that you've a special case there, but in a different way we were "way out in the styx" in the first year or two.  We didn't even have any service available this end of Italy, let alone fast public charging.  Any concerns we had were very easily overcome, and we'll never buy another ICE vehicle.  I will bet you are going to see some Cybertrucks locally in the next year - 18 months max!

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

 

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/northumberland-britishvolt-electric-car-battery-27533683?fbclid=IwAR3ZFT-qCYSXLdf1VEVzuonUtNl1NL3OcW2hjXVlJG7Aeo9_Z0EJm1y9sDc

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

https://www.northumberlandgazette.co.uk/news/politics/council/councillors-call-for-answers-on-future-of-britishvolt-site-in-northumberland-4348524?fbclid=IwAR3nydp_Z5mucBHAowLTq2mPZQqeia_PJXNpw2q2fOt52XHPihmGvzJ1m0g

 

[Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)]

BBC news latest update :- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67149907?fbclid=IwAR3azyuk2WG0XaKDM2smXxrlGqbFyE_MhhPSVEViAKTC6_km1hw5mmdsxts

Edited October 19 by Alan Edgar (Eggy1948)